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Thread: HDMI DVD Players

  1. #1
    Established User Array Butterfly's Avatar
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    HDMI DVD Players

    Anyone here knows anything about HDMI DVD players ?

    I have a HDMI DVD player and I noticed that some DVDs are not working with the player, always thought the player was defective since those DVDs were playing fine in other DVD players. It's so bad, that I have to make copies of my own original copy-protected DVDs to play them on HDMI.

    I remember a story about HD-DVD and SONY PS3 HDMI player having problems playing DVDs because the stupid HDMI couldn't resolve correctly originals vs copies DVD signals and would block the image when it failed, then forcing the user to make a copy, remove the protection, and then play the DVDs on HDMI.

    It seems that SONY DVD HDMI bug is not an exception and I think this is the case for most HDMI players, or the DVDs I am buying in shops or renting are all copies in a nice box, and that's why the HDMI player can't play them,

    it's fucking annoying !!!

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    Eat your Greens! Array greenleaf's Avatar
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    Re: HDMI DVD Players

    Should you factor blue ray players into this query? Thats where the format issues start...
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    Cunning Linguist Array Sanuk Canuk's Avatar
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    Re: HDMI DVD Players

    I haven't had a problem with my HDMI setup, using both Panasonic TV and DVD equipment. I use it to play copy DVD's all the time. Biggest problem is that the great piccture just highlights the crappy copied DVD quality.
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    Re: HDMI DVD Players

    I bought a Samsung DVD/VCR recorder combo with HDMI upconversion(to 1080i) last week...so far no problems.



    Samsung DVD-VR357

    playback of standard DVD's looks great on my 42" Sanyo HDTV(720p)

    I was told to stay away from Sony as they seem to have the most problems when it comes to trying to record DVD's.

    btw I also replaced my old 100 watts/channel Sony surround receiver with an Onkyo 65 watts/channel surround receiver with digital inputs. The Onkyo blows the Sony away!

    and a question of my own...Which audio on DVD's is superior, DTS or Dolby Digital?
    -----
    btw the Samsung is also DivX compatible.
    Last edited by esoteric1; 9th December 2007 at 17:52. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    back seat modding Array discus2000's Avatar
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    Re: HDMI DVD Players

    i don't really get this... hdmi is only the connection between hardware, e.g. dvd player and TV or playstation and tv... should have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the player itself is capable of playing a dvd.

    Have you tried with a scart cable?

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    S.I.P. Array esoteric1's Avatar
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    Re: HDMI DVD Players

    I wonder if it could be the region settings? Aren't those different in Asia, Europe, and North America?? I think the US is Region 1....I saw something about this in the instruction manual of my new Samsung DVD recorder....something about if the region settings weren't correct some DVD's might not play.(I think region was the term used)
    -----
    DVD Regions
    Last edited by esoteric1; 10th December 2007 at 03:02. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    back seat modding Array discus2000's Avatar
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    Re: HDMI DVD Players

    if that were the case, butterfly wouldn't be able to make copies and then play them with no problems... unless, of course, he 'de-regionalised' the copy, but...

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    S.I.P. Array esoteric1's Avatar
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    Re: HDMI DVD Players

    Quote Originally Posted by discus2000
    i don't really get this... hdmi is only the connection between hardware, e.g. dvd player and TV or playstation and tv... should have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the player itself is capable of playing a dvd.

    Well HDMI does incorporate an encryption method called HDCP, could it have to do with Butterfly's devices not being compatible with each other?


    HDMI incorporates content protection called HDCP ( high definition content protection)

    What is HDCP: HDCP is an acronym for High-Bandwidth Digital Content Protection. HDCP is an encryption method developed by Intel in order to control unauthorized copying of digital media. The encryption is carried out in the HDMI transmitter found in the "source" ( dvd player, set top box) and decryption is carried out by the HDMI receiver ( the HDTV display). The secret keys for encryption are exchanged between the source and display over an I2C bus ( pins 15 and 16).
    HDMI: Guide to HDTV Connection of the Future
    -----
    HDCP: The graphic card and monitor nightmare. (page 1: HDCP : misery for monitors and graphic cards) - BeHardware
    Last edited by esoteric1; 10th December 2007 at 05:51. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    S.I.P. Array esoteric1's Avatar
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    Re: HDMI DVD Players

    and from: High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    [edit] Specification

    HDCP's main target is to prevent transmission of non-encrypted high definition content. Three systems were developed to achieve that goal:
    1. Authentication process disallows non-licensed devices to receive HD content.
    2. Encryption of the actual data sent over DVI or HDMI interface prevents eavesdropping of information. It also prevents "man in the middle" attacks.
    3. Key revocation procedures ensure that devices manufactured by any vendors who violate the license agreement could be relatively easily blocked from receiving HD data.
    Each HDCP-capable device has a unique set of keys; there are 40 keys, each 56 bits long. These keys are confidential and failure to keep them secret may be seen as a violation of the license agreement. For each set of keys, a special key called a KSV (Key Selection Vector) is created. Each KSV consists of 40 bits (one bit for each HDCP key), with exactly 20 bits set to 0 and 20 bits set to 1.

    During the authentication process, both parties exchange their KSVs. Then each device adds (without overflow) its own secret keys together according to a KSV received from another device. If a particular bit in the vector (KSV) is set to 1, then the corresponding secret key is used in the addition, otherwise it is ignored. Keys and KSVs are generated in such a way that during this process both devices get the same 56-bit number as a result. That number is later used in the encryption process.

    This key exchanging procedure is known as Blom's scheme.

    Encryption is done by a stream cipher. Each decoded pixel is encrypted by applying an XOR operation with a 24-bit number produced by a generator. The HDCP specifications ensure constant updating of keys (after each encoded frame).

    If some particular model is considered "compromised", its KSV is put into revocation lists, which are written on newly-produced disks with HD content. Each revocation list is signed with a digital signature using the DSA algorithm; this is supposed to prevent malicious users from revoking legitimate devices. During the authentication process, if the receiver's KSV is found by a transmitter in the revocation list, then the transmitter considers the receiver to be compromised and refuses to send HD data to it.

    [edit] Cryptanalysis

    Cryptanalysis researchers demonstrated fatal flaws in HDCP for the first time in 2001, prior to its adoption in any commercial product. Scott Crosby of Carnegie Mellon University authored a paper with Ian Goldberg, Robert Johnson, Dawn Song, and David Wagner called "A Cryptanalysis of the High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection System". This paper was presented at ACM-CCS8 DRM Workshop on November 5, 2001.[1]

    The authors conclude:
    "HDCP's linear key exchange is a fundamental weakness. We can:
    • Eavesdrop on any data
    • Clone any device with only their public key
    • Avoid any blacklist on devices
    • Create new device keyvectors.
    • In aggregate, we can usurp the authority completely."
    It must be noticed, however, that for this attack you first have to break Blom's scheme (the linear algebra-based key-exchange system). In the case of HDCP, you need a minimum of 39 device keys in order to reconstruct the secret symmetrical master matrix that has been used to compute all device keys.

    Around the same time that Scott Crosby and co-authors were writing this paper, noted cryptographer Niels Ferguson independently claimed to have broken the HDCP scheme, but he did not publish his research, citing legal concerns arising from the controversial Digital Millennium Copyright Act [1].

    The most well-known attack on HDCP is the conspiracy attack, where a number of devices are compromised and the information gathered is used to reproduce the private key of the central authority.

    [edit] Uses

    HD DVD, Blu-ray Disc and DVD players (with HDMI or DVI connectors) use HDCP to establish an encrypted digital connection. If the display device—or in the case of using a PC to decrypt and play back HD-DVD or Blu-ray media, the graphics card (hardware, drivers and playback software)—does not support HDCP, then a connection cannot be established. As a result, a black picture and/or error message will likely be displayed instead of the video content.

    Content providers for HD-DVD and Blu-ray media can set an Image Constraint Token (ICT) flag that will only output full-resolution digital signals using a digital HDCP connection. If an HDCP-enabled player is connected to a non-HDCP-enabled television set with a non-HDCP-compliant analog connection (VGA or Component), and the content is flagged, the player will output a downsampled 960x540 pixel signal. If using a non-HDCP-compliant DVI connection (with an HDMI-to-DVI cable), the user will not get any picture at all. Many older high-definition television sets currently in use are not HDCP-capable, and this would negate some of the key benefits of HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc for those consumers. Also, the Microsoft Xbox360 game console, for which there is an HD-DVD add-on available, is only capable of analog non-HDCP-connections, although a new model of the Xbox360 called the "Xbox 360 Elite" has HDMI support, which enables it to play such protected content at full resolution. If ICT would be forced, Microsoft's flagship console (note that MS is an integral part of the HD-DVD camp, currently providing the VC-1 codec that is used in over 90% of all HD-DVD releases) would only be able to display a quarter of the actual resolution of the media, so movie studios are apparently in agreement not to include the ICT flag on any HD-DVDs or Blu-ray Discs in the immediate future.[2][3]


  10. #10
    back seat modding Array discus2000's Avatar
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    Re: HDMI DVD Players

    hence my question if butterfly had tried with a scart cable... og composite for that matter?

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    S.I.P. Array esoteric1's Avatar
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    Re: HDMI DVD Players

    O I C

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