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Thread: Some Android models to look forward to in the coming months.

  1. #76
    Regular User Array baksiidaa's Avatar
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    We seem to be straying from the topic again but I'll chime in anyway.

    Cthulhu is correct that it generally easier to upgrade on an iphone than an Android phone. For those that aren't interested in rooting their phone but still want timely updates on an Android phone, they can always go for the Nexus S as the updates come directly from Google.

    One myth I would like to dispell is that updates for the iphone are always hassle free and require nothing more than clicking a button in itunes. When ios4 came out, there were many problems with the updates for the 3g and 3gs phones. The 3gs problems were sorted out and eventually they made a stable release for the 3g as well, but the 3g's version is a stripped down version of the OS. Basically, all you get is folders. The other useful features like multitasking are left out on the 3g's update. They have a good reason for it as there isn't enough memory on the 3g to use multitasking. You also take a hit in performance on Ios4 with the 3g as as a result I'm still on a version of ios3. I've been on this same version for a year and to me, the tradeoff of folders for slower performance isn't worth it. To me, this isn't really any different than old or lower specced androids not getting the 2.2 update. If older android phones are going to take big performance hits with 2.2 and miss out on many of the features then what is the point of upgrading them at all? Hats off to Apple for trying to support older phones but the picture isn't as pretty as people like to paint it.

    Another issue with updates to ios4 was one that plagued iphone users with a carrier unlock. With one of the recent updates, the modem firmware was also updated on the phone. This bricked phones using carrier unlocks until 3rd party programmers could come up with a hack to work around the updated modem firmware. This happened to two of my coworkers on their iphone 3g's and they had to wait over a month to be able to use their phones again. A lot of people use phones purchased in the US in other countries or on other carriers in the US. Even though it is now legal to use a carrier unlock an iphone and almost every other phone in existence can be unlocked upon request to the carrier, apple still applies its gestapo tactics on using phones with a different carrier. Almost every update, they apply a new way to stop people from using their phones on different carriers.

  2. #77
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    baksiidaa is correct that hacked (jailbroken) phones with a hacked carrier unlock have problems - honestly, though, that's why there are no reasons not to purchase a legit factory unlocked iPhone, as they are widely available in Asia. They are also clearly labeled as such (at MBK, at least) as 'USA iPhone' or 'unlock iPhone', and you can also ask the seller what type of iPhone it is he is trying to sell. The price difference between a USA hacked iPhone and a factory legit (as bought from TRUE, AIS, DTAC, or imported from Hong Kong) is, in my opinion, insignificant these days - and what you are buying for the difference is the assurance that your phone will keep working.

    There's a slight disingenuous bit of information in your comments, baksiidaa, labeling Apple's attitude as Gestapo tactics. It looks to me more as if Apple, when crafting and distributing updates, does not particularly care for jailbroken or carrier unlocked hacks - meaning, they are doing nothing on their end to accommodate them, or to verify that Apple's updates don't interfere with them. After all, why should they? That's a vast difference to claiming they apply themselves to actively stopping it. Jailbreaks, as far as I understand, all take advantage of exploits and security loopholes on iPhones - as such, of course Apple will plug those holes when they push out an update. This has (in my opinion) less to do with wanting to stick it to jailbreakers and unlockers, and a lot more with closing open security holes that could be exploited by individuals with more nefarious intentions. As an end user, I *want* Apple to be vigilant and close such potential exploits.

    Also, I recently read some articles on how Android manufacturers are apparently starting to *close* up their phones, with new boot loaders that will only run signed ROMs, and other means to lock down their phones. Samsung's recent Tab firmwares have been found to try to prevent rooting the Tab, and I have no doubt they will expand that to their phone line, and music player. Motorola made an effort with their early Android phone (which proved ultimately futile) - nevertheless it appears that with all the talk of "open" Android manufacturers are rushing to 'close' that barn door. Again, from a security point of view I can understand that, albeit if Samsung prevents rooting, and doesn't fix their crappy implementation of Android (lag and all), they are only hurting themselves.

  3. #78
    Regular User Array baksiidaa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu View Post
    baksiidaa is correct that hacked (jailbroken) phones with a hacked carrier unlock have problems
    These aren't jailbroken phones I'm talking about. Only a phone with a carrier unlock applied to it.

    - honestly, though, that's why there are no reasons not to purchase a legit factory unlocked iPhone, as they are widely available in Asia. They are also clearly labeled as such (at MBK, at least) as 'USA iPhone' or 'unlock iPhone', and you can also ask the seller what type of iPhone it is he is trying to sell. The price difference between a USA hacked iPhone and a factory legit (as bought from TRUE, AIS, DTAC, or imported from Hong Kong) is, in my opinion, insignificant these days - and what you are buying for the difference is the assurance that your phone will keep working.
    What if I move from the US to Asia? (Which I did.) Am I then required to buy a new iphone just because I moved? This isn't a problem with any other phones. Or how about international traveling? Thanks to unlocking, I was able to use my phones in trips to Asia and South America by just buying a local sim card when I got there.

    There's a slight disingenuous bit of information in your comments, baksiidaa, labeling Apple's attitude as Gestapo tactics. It looks to me more as if Apple, when crafting and distributing updates, does not particularly care for jailbroken or carrier unlocked hacks - meaning, they are doing nothing on their end to accommodate them, or to verify that Apple's updates don't interfere with them. After all, why should they? That's a vast difference to claiming they apply themselves to actively stopping it. Jailbreaks, as far as I understand, all take advantage of exploits and security loopholes on iPhones - as such, of course Apple will plug those holes when they push out an update. This has (in my opinion) less to do with wanting to stick it to jailbreakers and unlockers, and a lot more with closing open security holes that could be exploited by individuals with more nefarious intentions. As an end user, I *want* Apple to be vigilant and close such potential exploits.
    Apple goes out of their way to stop unlocks. Jailbreaking is a completely different animal here though they do try to stop that as well. They may claim to do it under the guise of securing your phone but they know exactly what they are doing. If they wanted carrier unlocking done then they'd leave an easy way to do it. I say gestapo tactics because practically every other phone out there has a method to unlock it via the carrier. I was able to unlock multiple phones that I bought through T-mobile by calling them up, having them tell me a code to enter into the phone and bam, the phone was unlocked. What is even more pathetic is that you can pay full price for an iphone in the US WITHOUT buying a contract with AT&T yet you are still stuck with a carrier locked phone.

    Also, I recently read some articles on how Android manufacturers are apparently starting to *close* up their phones, with new boot loaders that will only run signed ROMs, and other means to lock down their phones. Samsung's recent Tab firmwares have been found to try to prevent rooting the Tab, and I have no doubt they will expand that to their phone line, and music player. Motorola made an effort with their early Android phone (which proved ultimately futile) - nevertheless it appears that with all the talk of "open" Android manufacturers are rushing to 'close' that barn door. Again, from a security point of view I can understand that, albeit if Samsung prevents rooting, and doesn't fix their crappy implementation of Android (lag and all), they are only hurting themselves.
    It's sad that companies are becoming so greedy that they try to control how someone uses their own property. There are still workarounds to this but it is going to be a sad day indeed if all the Android manufacturers end up doing this to phones. On a side note, you are talking about rooting the phone which isn't the same as a carrier unlock. As far as I know, they haven't tried to prevent carrier unlocks on Android phones.

  4. #79
    Established User Array mabubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baksiidaa View Post
    You also take a hit in performance on Ios4 with the 3g as as a result I'm still on a version of ios3
    When I had my iPhone 3G I upgraded from iOS 3.1.3 to 4 and the phone suffered terrible response lag. All of their ads teased consumers with updated features, but all you got for the 3G was folders (and the lag). I have no problem with OS updates requiring a certain level of hardware, but if the manufacturer doesn't tell everyone clearly and provide sufficient support for both levels of hardware that's where the problems start. The stupid thing is Apple didn't even provide a legit way to move back to iOS 3 if you wanted to. I had to basically hack my phone to get a version of iOS 3 back. The result of this was a class action lawsuit being filed in California against Apple because of them making a mess of their 3g phones. Apple did respond, in their cryptic way, buy releasing 4.2 and making it work much better on the 3g. I upgraded to 4.2 (after letting braver folks try it and showing it worked better with youtube comparisons) right before my phone was stolen and it worked much better than 4.0. In a way, the cynic in me thinks Apple was gently pushing consumers to their latest and greatest 3gs or 4 versions. Again, this is not a problem as long as they leave the functionality of the previous gen hardware alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by baksiidaa View Post
    Apple goes out of their way to stop unlocks.
    I believe this in the US, but in the UK I was able to unlock my iPhone once my contract was finished with O2. The EU protects consumers better than the US does IMO.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by baksiidaa View Post
    These aren't jailbroken phones I'm talking about. Only a phone with a carrier unlock applied to it.
    You need to jailbreak an iPhone in order to apply a carrier unlock, thus they *are* jailbroken phones ;-)

    Quote Originally Posted by baksiidaa View Post
    If they wanted carrier unlocking done then they'd leave an easy way to do it. I say gestapo tactics because practically every other phone out there has a method to unlock it via the carrier. I was able to unlock multiple phones that I bought through T-mobile by calling them up, having them tell me a code to enter into the phone and bam, the phone was unlocked.
    What you are describing *only* applies to the USA and due to AT&T. In every other country, Apple either sells the iPhone as a legitimately unlocked model, or allows the carriers to unlock the iPhone for you in the exact manner you described.

    In France, you can go to your local store, pay a nominal fee, and leave with your iPhone unlocked; Same in Belgium; Same in Italy; in Thailand, the only phones you *can* buy legitimately are the unlocked kind; in Hong Kong the iPhones you buy via the online store from Apple are unlocked.

    Apple *has* "left an easy way to do it" - and practically every other country out there has a method to unlock the iPhone via the carrier.

    Please place blame where it is due, or at least know your facts, please.

    Quote Originally Posted by baksiidaa View Post
    On a side note, you are talking about rooting the phone which isn't the same as a carrier unlock. As far as I know, they haven't tried to prevent carrier unlocks on Android phones.
    While some Android phones can be carrier unlocked with a key code (just as 'regular' phones used to be), others require running a hack, which requires root access - so, rooting your Android phone is just like jailbreaking, and the manufacturers and carriers are trying to stop that as well - this is something that Andy Rubin claims is one of the *great* features of being open.

  6. #81
    Established User Array mabubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trep View Post
    Galaxy S is 18,900 baht. People can argue if iPhone's display is better but Galaxy's is certainly bigger, and they put live Christmas wallpapers on display phones in the stores now so Galaxy looks just awesome.

    My Acer has dropped to 12,900, half of an iPhone, and it's a very very good value considering it falls into the same category.
    Where's the best place to shop for phones in Bangers? Or are they available pretty much everywhere?

  7. #82
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    I got both my phones from MBK. If you know what you are looking for, and you know what you should be paying for, it's probably the best place, albeit also the worst place :-)

  8. #83
    Senior Member Array trep's Avatar
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    it generally easier to upgrade on an iphone than an Android phone
    HTC upgrades their phones OTA, Over The Air, no need to plug in anything.

    After I installed Acer Liquid Tool the update was two clicks max - Next and OK.

    There was no need to register anything nor there were any forms to fill and no need to provide your credit card details - things you HAVE TO DO with iTunes.

    iPhone trolls just make up lots of silly, meaningless but endless arguments in Android topics because there's no one to fight with in their own iPhone threads and they are bored shitless there, don't feed them, Baksiidaa.

    >>>>>

    Galaxy S can be found in any respectable mobile phone shop and they come with warranty and everything. Acers, on the other hand, are very difficult to find - they don't sell them in Acer notebooks dealers, there's only one shop that carries them, forgot the name but they have a branch at every big department store. Acer itself sells them at Panthip, Fortune Tower and Seacon Square.

  9. #84
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    "There was no need to register anything nor there were any forms to fill and no need to provide your credit card details - things you HAVE TO DO with iTunes"
    ---
    This is of course not true in order to do a simple OS update on an iPhone - but hey, after being on a roll of making stuff up, why should trep stop fabricating things now?

    ---------- Post added at 10:58 ---------- Previous post was at 10:42 ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by trep View Post
    After I installed Acer Liquid Tool the update was two clicks max - Next and OK.
    Right, we saw how "easy" that was.

    Quote Originally Posted by trep
    Here is how I updated my phone
    - go to google,
    search "android forums",
    click the first result,
    click on Acer Liquid E forum,
    click on "Guide" sticky topic,
    click on Official Acer Releases link,
    select 2.2 from dropdown list,
    click OS tab,
    click AAP-GEN2 rom (check your About in Settings if you are not in Thailand).
    Download,
    extract,
    click Setup,
    plug your phone when prompted,
    click Next and OK
    and in a few minutes the update is finished.

    Done. 2.2, Android Froyo, is installed and running.

  10. #85
    Regular User Array baksiidaa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu View Post
    Right, we saw how "easy" that was.
    Originally Posted by trep
    Here is how I updated my phone
    - go to google,
    search "android forums",
    click the first result,
    click on Acer Liquid E forum,
    click on "Guide" sticky topic,
    click on Official Acer Releases link,
    select 2.2 from dropdown list,
    click OS tab,
    click AAP-GEN2 rom (check your About in Settings if you are not in Thailand).
    Download,
    extract,
    click Setup,
    plug your phone when prompted,
    click Next and OK
    and in a few minutes the update is finished.

    Done. 2.2, Android Froyo, is installed and running.
    How is this much different than with an iphone?

    Go to google
    Search for itunes
    Follow link to apple.com/itunes
    Click "download itunes"
    Select version and uncheck email offers. Location Thailand is selected by default
    Click "download now"
    Run itunes setup
    Plug in phone
    Run check for updates within itunes...

    Granted, subsequent updates are easier once you've gotten past the initial itunes setup, but I'm sure the same can be said about updates for his phone once he bookmarks the site.

  11. #86
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    For starters - I don't have to 'search' for iTunes. iTunes.com takes me there. Apple even provides to URL as one of the first things on the packaging. If I do google for it (trep probably needs to), I don't have to search a forum or something for the 'appropriate' firmware downloads, nor do I need to bookmark it to find my way back, or do I have to make sure I have the right software for my hardware.

    He's simply annoying because:
    - anything he doesn't need, therefore no one else needs it.
    - if it's updates, he notices no differences, so declares they aren't needed anyway.
    - the most complex processes and procedures are declared as "easy" by him, yet simple things are declared irrelevant.
    - everything that he doesn't do, or can't do, is by definition not needed by everyone else.
    - he lies. Repeatedly.

    He seems like a very annoying idiot, which is very annoying. Did I mention he's annoying?

  12. #87
    Senior Member Array trep's Avatar
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    You forgot to describe multiple steps in "Run itunes setup" - that would really make a difference in this nitpicking "12 vs 13 clicks" pseudo-debate.

    Android phones ARE upgradeable. For those who can't wait for official releases there is the root option that lets you upgrade your phone three times a week, if you want, and back to your official version if you need to use the warranty.

    If it's a physical defect they probably won't even care what ROM you are running - stuck buttons are stuck buttons.

    Software wise you are free to do anything you want with your Android, you are not breaking any laws or agreements by installing any damn Android version you want and Android developers would even thank you for your feedback and for trying their latest releases.

  13. #88
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    ... and he continues ... More passive aggressive 'exaggerations', all for the sake of whatever trep's agenda is.

    Then again, I think most readers have figured that out by now.

    Where's the Samsung service centre in bkk? I'm about to put that theory to the test.

  14. #89
    Windoze Basher Array theanimaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trep View Post
    3D + transparency flipping thing
    Is that like Coverflow on the mac and iOS? Because the novelty wore off for me a long time ago. I still prefer to view stuff in plain old icons/list view.
    I wish I could afford to make just a dollar a year.

    Just Buy a Mac

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  15. #90
    Senior Member Array trep's Avatar
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    There's a list view with icons below that 3D thingme.

    No idea what Coverflow is but I haven't seen anything like that in any of my gf apps including AppStore and guess what - I don't really care what they do on iOS! There are plenty of new and exciting things going on in Android world on its own, without searching for iPhone references. Everyday there's something new to discover, if you are into it.

    I'm pretty sure that 3D show is not the last change to Android Market either.

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