..and predictably of course he got jumped on by the other parties.
I think it could be argued, and I'm guessing this is Russ's point, that another elephant is immigration.
All the parties have probably calculated that raising the issue will definitely lose them votes from people with minority backgrounds, but won't definitely gain them votes from anyone.
"An important and obvious topic, which everyone present is aware of, but which isn't discussed, as such discussion is considered to be uncomfortable."
The elephant in the room
"vast and black. the thing that was poised, like a crow over the moon. round and smooth. cannon balls. things that have fallen from the sky to this earth. our slippery brains. things like cannon balls have fallen, in storms, upon this earth. like cannon balls are things that, in storms, have fallen to this earth. showers of blood. showers of blood. showers of blood. " c.f.
Not a genuine elephant in the room, eh.
It's OK Hales - we all f*ck up once in a while, even you.
We basically know that the tories would have let the bankers fill their buckets - probably even reserve buckets. Though not genuine ones
They just weren't in power at the time.
So now we this whole charade - this pretence that the difference is about something other than timing.
It was the same with Thatcher and Blair - fortune just smiled on them while they were in power. This time it will .....eventually...smile on Cameron just because he wasn't.
Now that sir, is an excellent calculation.All the parties have probably calculated that raising the issue will definitely lose them votes from people with minority backgrounds, but won't definitely gain them votes from anyone.
Certainly worthy of green.
Well hell, I can't geen you.
But the intention was there
In the interest of fair play I give you the "Greens"
Election 2010: Green Party launch 'ambitious' manifesto
Green Party leader Caroline Lucas outlines their pledges
The Green Party of England and Wales have set out manifesto plans to make Britain a "greener and fairer society". Party leader Caroline Lucas said they would create a million new jobs and reform the tax system to "redistribute" income to the less well-off.
Probably well intentioned and they may have a shot at one seat.
<H2>The elephant in the room</H2>
An important and obvious topic, which everyone present is aware of, but which isn't discussed, as such discussion is considered to be uncomfortable.
The expression is of US origin, although the precise source isn't known. The meaning, if not the exact wording, dates from at least the 1950s and is possibly some years older than that.
Thanks for that, I would have thought it British.
Here's a couple more that might prove relevant this time around
Dog and pony Show......
The majority of their entertainment consisted of clowning, acrobatics and juggling, with a few acts that involved the dogs and pony.The reference archived thread does touch one the meaning - the phrase is definitely derogatory, and does come from the circus world. Many "mom and pop and kids" circuses that toured small towns could not afford the expense of maintaining large animals such as camels and elephants, or dangerous and also expensive ones such as lions and tigers. Often, their only menagerie was a few dogs and a pony. The majority of their entertainment consisted of clowning, acrobatics and juggling, with a few acts that involved the dogs and pony. The larger, more sophisticated and better equipped circuses came to refer to these little guys as "dog and pony shows."
Then we have One Trick Pony..................
"Hung" and "well hung"?
A few more for the unitiated
N – New. noun. Idiom: New Labour. Meaning – recycled socialist Party with a propensity to spin their way into the hearts and minds of floating voters. Beset by scandals from the outset (Bernie Ecclestone affair), it has made copious use of targets (e.g. child poverty, jobs for British workers and other rank hypocrisy), a myriad of new laws and police scare tactics to retain power. The Old Labour mantle has since been taken up by the lib dems.
R – Right. adjective. Idiom: my Right Honourable friend. Meaning – bastard.
T – Target. noun. Idiom: we have a target for full employment within 5 years/ending child poverty/making the world a better place. Meaning – a desired goal, one which is of course hopelessly unachievable but sounds like a good idea to voters. Spin is frequently employed to present doctored statistics suggesting that the target is still on course. Before the original target can be seen to be missed a new target may be set and the whole process recommenced.
W – Working. verb. Idiom: more people are working now than under the previous government. Meaning – due to the influx of a few million immigrants and the explosion of part time jobs, this is one of the very few political statements that is true, although it handily conceals the fact that more people are now not working than ever before.
F – Floating. adjective. Idiom: floating voters. Meaning – frequently used to describe middle class English women still undecided as to which party leader is more photogenic. Note: floaters can be converted into voters by the constant repetition of references to ‘hard working families’.
H – Hard. adjective. Idiom: hard working families. Meaning – dual meanings depending on the political party: Labour – single mothers on benefits hard at work boosting their income by getting pregnant again, Conservatives – landed gentry working hard to avoid paying inheritance tax.
That's going to have to do it for tonight.
The Greens Manifesto looks good to me - and Caroline Lucas seems like a leader with some integrity.
About letting the richest of the rich get richer and about voting against the abolition of hereditary peerages.
On the second point he sneered about how if labour really wanted to do it they would have done it over the last 13 years. Brown responded 'Your party voted against it last week' and Camembert had no response whatsoever.
I thought Clegg and Brown probably came out of it equally, though Brown tried a bit too hard to get a tag team going.
Maybe the Tories can actually manage to mess up what should really be a landslide. I say that assuming the first election will result in a hung parliament.
I don't think Cameron came out best on anything except the skill of his tailor.
I don't think anyone did particularly well last night. Although most post debate polls give it to Clegg.
Cameron certainly could have done a better job.
I wonder if they drew straws on who would stand where.
In my mind Brown was the real loser last night.
Here’s the thing about Gordon Brown: He needs to stop smiling. Seriously, you’ll frighten the kids with that thing. We’re not the first to notice this problem. As author and broadcaster Gerald Warner wrote, his attempt to smile brings a “resulting rictus that has an authentic horror that not even Steven Spielberg’s most sophisticated special effects could engineer.” See? Scares the kids.Broadcaster ITV is promising the use of a “worm” graphic, in which a solid line will crawl across the screen and rise (or fall) depending on whether the audience likes or dislikes a speaker’s answer. Really, though, when you are 50 years behind the rest of the western world on televising debates, do you need to add all the bells and whistles right out of the gate?
3:35 First question is about immigration reform. Mr. Brown says his party is committed to making sure that the country does not take in immigrants who will take jobs from Britons. The worm isn’t buying it.
3:37 Mr. Cameron next. He bluntly states that Britain has too many immigrants. “Immigration is too high, and it must come down,” he says. The worm approves! Mr. Cameron carries on about how major reforms are needed and the worm continues to race to the top of the screen. The pattern is continued when Mr. Layton — OK, fine, his name is Nick Clegg — also says that Labour has done a lousy job on the immigrant file. “Hear hear!,” says the worm. “Pip, pip and all that!” We realize that the worm is far from scientific, but the Prime Minister is getting thumped so far.
Anyway, no great debate but it might get the ball rolling.
I'm getting the sense that crime, immigration and health care are going to emerge as the three most devisive issues.
How the parties address those may decide the election.
terrible 'debate'. but then it always was gonna be.
brown did as expected. cameron, well, everytime he opens his mouth tory it doesn't do much good. clegg looked handy, but then lib dems can, they know they're bot gonna win, makes campaigning a whole lot easier.
I didn't see any "worm".Broadcaster ITV is promising the use of a “worm” graphic, in which a solid line will crawl across the screen and rise (or fall) depending on whether the audience likes or dislikes a speaker’s answer. Really, though, when you are 50 years behind the rest of the western world on televising debates, do you need to add all the bells and whistles right out of the gate?
Interesting though Cy.
First question "out of the gates" is about immigration.
I have no idea how they chose the questions and how the questions were orderd but that first question was like a shot of adrenalin by needle right into the heart muscle
Clegg could have been somebody.
What he failed to understand, IMO, is that when his handlers told him to accentuate the differences they didn't mean on every bloody question.
Let's just hope it not going to be hung.
Meet Nick Clegg: U.K.'s 3rd Party Comes of Age - World Watch - CBS News
Read it and weep.
Meet Nick Clegg: U.K.'s 3rd Party Comes of Age
This news analysis was written by CBSNews.com's Tucker Reals in London.
Britain has been governed as a two-party democracy, for all practical intents and purposes, for three decades. Now, as volcanic ash strangles the nation's transportation back into the 19th century, the modern marvel of television is poised to shake the foundations of U.K. politics.
Okay, so we Americans turned the diabolical gaze of television cameras onto our would-be leaders about half a century ago -- Britain is a very old, tradition-obsessed nation, change comes slowly.
But it's coming, and it looks like Nick Clegg. He's the leader of the Liberal Democrats party who, Friday morning, should be lying in bed and cuddling his television rather than his wife. He should probably even make it breakfast and then give it a foot rub.
Prior to Thursday's first-ever televised debate, most of Britain knew vaguely who Clegg was, but very few people had a clear idea of what his aspirations might be or how he would stack up on a level stage to his rivals.
Those rivals, current British Prime Minister and Labour Party leader Gordon Brown and Conservative Party boss David Cameron, lost the debate.
According to the battery of polls which started making news broadcasts about three minutes after the debate's end, Clegg won the event by anything from a five to 40 percent margin. Most tellingly, he gained the most in favorability compared to his rivals in before and after polling.
While some are calling this a surprise victory, it's important to remember that
Quite correct IE 6 don't work worth a shit on the forum now.
Yes, you Americans should indeed shut the fuck up.Okay, so we Americans turned the diabolical gaze of television cameras onto our would-be leaders about half a century ago -- Britain is a very old, tradition-obsessed nation, change comes slowly.
It's a constant source of embarrasement for me that I have to live next door to a people with such such a lack of "class'.
I sure as hell hope that ain't true.Prior to Thursday's first-ever televised debate, most of Britain knew vaguely who Clegg was, but very few people had a clear idea of what his aspirations might be or how he would stack up on a level stage to his rivals.
My old man sweated his guts out for the country in the "Black" Country.
Christ I'm half inclined to return to my "roots" and give the Brits a good kick up the ass.
Anyway, I shall ignore the online polls from this point forward.
To much fluctuation.
Equals no credibility.
So the Tories have it at this point though it looks hung.
Can the Scot pull a rabbit out of his ass?
You never know.
We haven't seen the serious dirt yet.
Last week of the campaign will decide.
Last edited by russellsimpson; 16th April 2010 at 19:54.
I got links.