DontTaserMeDude

Every pension scheme is a scam and a ripoff. Invest in a stockpile of food, weapons, and ammunition. Bury tanks under your land and stockpile food and fuel. After the SHTF, cigarattes, whiskey, and marijuana will be used for money, so have a huge stockpile of those. If you must "invest" in something it should be gold. But you wont have to buy it. After the SHTF, a pack of your cigarettes will sell for an ounce of gold.

paully

^^ Depends if you firmly intend to stay abroad and never return to the UK, CG. The Teachers' Pension scheme is good, as you know, but needs years of contributions to really build up. On the other hand, your starting salary as an NQT won't be huge and, given the ever-rising cost of rent, food, fuel, utilities etc, you'll need every penny of your net salary - and possibly then some - to happily survive. The TP scheme currently takes £160+ per month off me in contributions, which does involve some belt-tightening.

Cawphad Guy

Yeah, I've made up my mind to do that. That's why I'm over in the UK now sorting out requisite quals and experience to get myself a well-paid teaching job back in LOS.

I would definitely miss £160 a month, and I'm planning on using property investment and some sort of business to finance my golden years. Don't think the wife would be too pleased with:

__________________
You know what really chaps my ass though?

I spent my life savings turning my van into a dog.
The alarm alone cost me two hundred.

paully

^ Just noticed your point about student loans on another thread, CG. If you are determined not to return to UK ('never say never'?), it would be more avantageous to you not to go into the TP scheme in your circumstances. Remember that after a few months, the Student Loan Co people will catch up with you through your NI records and you'll find a couple of hundred pounds a month (at least) being automatically deducted from your NQT salary at source as long as you stay in the UK. If you're contributing to the pension scheme as well, you'll face a couple of years of living on Tesco instant noodles (not imported Mama ones) and catering-size baked bean tins as well as evenings marking homework and lesson prep. Not too much fun.

Cawphad Guy

^^ Sounds like a good reason to fuck the UK off as soon as possible. I'd have such shit prospects if I was planning on living in the UK permanently.

Thank God for Thailand!

__________________
You know what really chaps my ass though?

I spent my life savings turning my van into a dog.
The alarm alone cost me two hundred.

DontTaserMeDude

Always defer to the wife if she's a keeper. I didnt realize the student loan thread was about a UK loan. I thought that was a US-inspired flim-flam. What will the scammers think of next? Will children finishing elementary school be faced with huge loans to pay? Back to the Dickens era? Hope I'm not giving them ideas.

Jon

There's no point in paying into any pension plan for only 3 years.
You intend never to pay off your student loans?

__________________
Sur votre bicyclette, mate.

naboo

I've been paying in for 2 years. The payment comes off before tax and also reduces your NI contributions, so a £100ish payment per month in the first year equated to me actually only losing about £55/month. This year the payment is £116ish, equating to something like £65/month. The Golden Hello (if you get one) is not subject to pension contribution so no worries there. At the time I started teaching, I did not have plans to live abroad so I opted in no questions asked. Its a very good scheme.

Now the rules have changed, I was the last opportunity to enter the scheme under the old rules. Its a final salary scheme for me where I earn a certain percentage of my final salary (flexible arrangements when calculating this) for every year worked.

As I understand it, I am able to withdraw 55% of what I have paid in (apparently this is the equivalent amount I would have received in my salary had I not paid in, 20% tax, 11% NI and you have to factor in your actual NI contributions have been reduced from 11% to 9% on all earnings, I reckon saving me £30/month, then there's your golden hello), plus 3%/year accrued interest. I can leave the pension in 'preservation' in case I return to the UK or I can transfer it to another scheme.

I'm going to leave it in there until I've decided whether or not I'd return to the UK. It would be worth keeping to transfer or if I return in aged 40, I could pay in for 20 more years and end up with a decent percentage of my final salary. If I choose not to return, I can withdraw what will be over a £1000 whenever I wish, it won't have cost me anything.

My advice would be to pay it in. If you're anything like me, you'll only piss down the pub toilet the extra £55 a month and you'll find it a nice little savings plan.

As for student loans, you pay back 9% of everything over £15,000, so nothing like a couple of hundred pounds a month as has been stated above. Would work out at less than £500 in your first year, if they ever find you.

Its all very complicated. Best advice, join a union (check with staff at the school who the major union is in the school and join that one, you don't want to be striking on your own and they all give a good discount in the first few years) and ask to speak to someone about pensions. They can help, usually have people trained specifically to give advice to members on pensions) and won't go blabbering about you leaving in a few years to your headteacher.

paully

Are you sure?
I hope CG won't mind me revealing (it's already on another thread) that his student loan is in excess of £20,000. I don't know exactly how much his starting salary will be, but I'm presuming that (like me) he'll get credit for previous experience and so start at a few points above the minimum, say £24k a year. That's £9,000 above the £15,000 base for deductions you quote, so - using your figures - he'll have to pay £810 per year not 'less than £500' as you claim. But, is the basis of your figures correct? You may be interested to note that Student Loans currently deduct £116 per month from my salary at source although my salary is not as great as your above calculations imply. I only owe £3,000 so it'll be paid off pretty quick, and that suits me. I think they'll sting CG for a touch more than £500 a year They have to earn their interest, too.
It's also not a question of 'if they ever find you', Student Loans trace your employer through the NI records and simply instruct the employer to deduct at source and pay them. Permission doesn't come into it. Can take a few months for them to pick up on the NI records, but if you're in the UK and legally working, they'll find you.

peelieorion

After teaching for a couple of years in the U.k I rang the pensions people and asked them a simple questions. if i workfor 35 years slogging my guts out in the U.k education system approximately howmuch will i get if i retire. The answer I basically got was it depends on the state of the markets when you retire. Now i didn't want an exact answer but it dawned on me that every month I'm paying the government to gamble with my money and if by bad luck the stock market crashes a week before i'm retire I'm fucked For years the govt tells us we're not saving enough. i don't see a whole load of retired teachers leading a comfortable life. can you see youself running round a classroom at 60, not me. I ppulled out of paying the teacher pension the next week and in the subsequent 5 years I reckon i've saved my self 5k. Lets face it when i retire the U.K gov't will be too busy giving benefits to immigrants and scroungers.

Cawphad Guy

Well, complicated it is!

The secretary at my NQT school has told me that this will still apply for me, although she could have missed the rule change.

I see the 'nothing to lose' point, but I just think that having the cash in the bank could be safer than in a pension scheme in another country.
It might be a bit far fetched, but in 10/20 years time, when the student loan company come to writing off my debt, they could be well in their rights to raid my pension fund to recover some of the money.

Cheers for the heads up about the union naboo, it will be a good source of independent advice, but I'm guessing they'll tell me the same as you have.

Tis true, but I thought the amount they deduct depends on how much you earn, not how much you owe. So it doesn't matter whether I owe £1,000, £10,000 or £100,000, they'll still take a set amount relating to my salary.

I will never pay it off optionally. If it's taken out of my salary before I see it, there's nothing I can do about that.

__________________
You know what really chaps my ass though?

I spent my life savings turning my van into a dog.
The alarm alone cost me two hundred.

Jon

Maybe if I was in your position I would do the same? £20,000 is a lot for one person, and if that's multiplied out there must be a lot of money us taxpayers are subsidising for people who intend never to pay off the loan and run away overseas. If you have a low income you don't have to pay it back. What is it, £15,000 or less, no repayments, or 80,000 Baht a month-ish? If you land a UK equivalent salary in Bangers don't you think paying back the loan would be the right thing to do? I wouldn't burn my bridges with the UK too soon - lots of things can change.

__________________
Sur votre bicyclette, mate.

Cawphad Guy

^^
Would I be burning my bridges though?

If this was something that the government looked on so dimly, shouldn't they have told me before I did my initial degree.

When I was in Thailand and in the application process for my PGCE, I thought they might cotton onto the fact that I'm only coming back for the qualification and think twice about giving me my bursary, student loan, welsh assembly grant, household dependent's grant and waived tuition fees.

However, I was quite surprised to not be asked once by either my university or the student loan company regarding my plans for the future.

Yes, it would be the 'right' thing to do. But investing in my son's (and daughter's if my wife gets her way) future would be more important to me.

That really is the government's problem, they can't expect people to not take whatever they can get.

__________________
You know what really chaps my ass though?

I spent my life savings turning my van into a dog.
The alarm alone cost me two hundred.

Jon

Very cynical view, but sadly true.
I think in some countries if you get fees paid for teacher training or other higher education you might be under some kind of contract to work a few years in return. In the UK there is no such contract, so people will do what they want, and that includes buggering off overseas with no intention of paying back the loans. I don't think the UK govt should make it so easy for people to do this, but while it is possible it will be done by many
By 'burning bridges' I meant that if you changed your mind (circumstances may change) and you had to return to the UK what would happen? Would you just be in the same position as before, start having to pay off the loan under the same conditions as anyone else, or would you be some kind of debtor, chased up by bailiffs, etc? I'm thinking the former, probably, in which case you don't have anything to lose really
Don't worry, I'll pay it for you

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Sur votre bicyclette, mate.