zehner

you serious ia??

i would never threaten to hit a kid....totally unprofessional imo. i have no qualms about getting in their face and giving them a roaring bollocking though...that works for me

__________________
Now, to pry into roots, to finger slime,
To stare, big-eyed Narcissus, into some spring
Is beneath all adult dignity. I rhyme
To see myself, to set the darkness echoing.

IsaanAlex

^

I am serious.

At least in Korea, it is usually perfectly acceptable. And if you don't hit them, i.e. the students,...they just think you're a fool to be trifled with.

This is Korea.

And I would do the same with Korean kids on a tour abroad. In such a situation, the students don't have the time or the inclination to do it our way (i.e. the egalitarian way)...so I will do it their way.

Hittin.

Why will I lower myself in their eyes?

The only rise they will usually get out of me is the rise and fall of the lash.

After it is just once swiftly and brutally executed on themselves or one of their peers you barely have to raise your voice to get them to settle their little asses into "learnin mode".

St. Fran wrote:
Who? The father?

In most cases the threat is enough. And when father's get contacted by teachers or academy's in Korea...most kids are in tears.

The majority of kids who get hit by their teachers will never tell their parents even; in their words, "If I tell my parents my teacher hit me, they'll hit me too."

No, in fact I DO make the decisions. At least the majority of the time. My bosses can't tell me shit.

They hired me to teach and I do it to the best of my abilities. And if they don't like it...they can find someone else.

There are fewer good teachers almost anywhere than available slots IMO.

When a girl seriosuly misbehaved in one of my classes and refused to leave...I hit her on her thigh with a stick. When a Korean teacher tried to intervene she was was told to pipe down or she can get some too.
Both got sorted and class continued without a hitch.

If either "won" in front of the class I'd have had loads of other students misbehavin and the management of the school thinking they could tell me how my classroom was run...

In reality...if you were overly strict with the majority of Korean kids...the parents would love you more. I can't explain it.

A very popular and well-respected academy here in Korea lost its "eminence" because they got slack on their punishments.

They didn't cow the kids into their studies to the extent that the kids regularly did their homework. Then, after catching the kids not having done their homework...they didn't punish them harshly enough.

The local parents revolted, and there was a mass exodus.

Harder is better here. As long as the parents feel that you are sincere in getting their kids to learn you could probably string their kids up like pinatas and go to town.

~Alex

Umbuku

What a bizarre culture.

Almost barbaric, but of course that is a western sentiment.

I don't think I will be hitting the little darlings.
Though a few demonstrations of some wrist locks and stick techniques may get the message across that if pushed I can go to town.

The admin dumped me in this shit, and they know it therefore they will shortly be dealing with them. I'll be laying down boot camp law and sending them to the director of studies and denying them fun activities.

It is winning me kudo points with the bureaucracy for putting up with what I have, and as I mentioned they are documenting every complaint and action. However I will extend the keeping of my own records of such incidents with photos to cover my own butt.

On the phone calls I could probably get Mousey to play along with that threat. She has the numbers not the school.

Thanks for all the ideas.
I'm off to meet the children of Satan right now.

__________________
The free man thinks about nothing so little as death; his mind is focused upon life, not upon death. I always feel a bit sad when I see someone who thinks that the purpose of life is something other than living.

IsaanAlex

^

Just consider a few of my ideas k?



~Alex

zehner

sounds pretty f#cked up to me if beating kids is acceptable practice....

__________________
Now, to pry into roots, to finger slime,
To stare, big-eyed Narcissus, into some spring
Is beneath all adult dignity. I rhyme
To see myself, to set the darkness echoing.

jimbo

Hitting was widely used (and probably still is) at a very well-known Elem./middle/high school in a little district called Klong Toey.

We protested it at one point so they just started closing the doors.

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IsaanAlex

^

On the students heads I hope.

zehner wrote:
The odd disciplinary swipe is acceptable and even encouraged here...but some sick shit goes on too. Ther kind of stuff that, if anyone tried it on one of my kids, I'd lay them out.

I teach one 16 year old. He's a bit of a slacker but bright and nice. He looked positively grey one day.

I asked him, How are you doing, you look a bit pale?"

He says, "Yeah, my stomach been hurting me all day."

Me: Stomachache?

Him: " No, my teacher. He was repeatedly punching me in the stomach..."



On a side note, when I was younger (about 16) a friend was hit by a teacher at school for some misbehavin. Don't remember the exact details but just remember that the teacher was well out of line.

My mates father went to the school and laid out the teacher. Out cold.

Lesson: Don't beat on a jailbird's son.

IA

robitusson

Lessons from Beyond the Classroom - Policing Challenging Behaviour | Teachers TV

Excellent videos on this site on discipline and all aspects of teaching. You have to sign up (free), but it's weel worth it.

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stfranalum

i had to think about that for a minute. at first, i thought it a horrible idea to prop up a bad leader.....but but but.....if they see the leader as not effective or derelict in some way....you just gave the top guy kryptonite fucking creative man.

you are switching contexts...that is unless you are working with koreans who are travelling abroad.

their parents are not there. and even if they call the folks...who cares? kids dont see the threat of something that far away. or would you say that teens understand consequences, even abstract ones like being a 8 hours plane ride away if theres not an immediate consequence, there really is no rule.

if a call is made, even if the parents talk to them and rebuke them...they will then be shitting themsevles on the plane ride back...but thats after the behavior and too late. ive seen american kids do that....tell their folks and acting all independent and tough....but on the trip back home they are a ironic reversal of epic proportions "youre a real tough guy now arent ya?"

in this case, umbuku is not a leader for the company. he cant do shit with hitting, calling, keeping money. i think shame and embarassment are his go-to options.

a tough job. i hope youre getting some good lessons out of it.

Nick

Dude, I feel for you. Good luck.

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"For really I think that the poorest he that is in England hath a life to live, as the greatest he; and therefore truly, sir, I think it's clear, that every man that is to live under a government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that government; and I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that government that he hath not had a voice to put himself under."

Thomas Rainsborough

Dao16

Actually, after teaching here for several years, I can attest that Korean students are generally pretty good, if shy. Of course, that said, they are not shy when together in a group. Totally agree that the Korean counterpart is not doing her job, since the kids generally will not listen to you on matters of authority, unless you speak Korean pretty well. There is a disconnect between English and real life in their minds (as there is between Asia and real life in the minds of some foreigners).
What the previous poster said about appealing to the idea of being a bad representation of Korea and of the hell that they will have to pay when their parents hear of it is totally true. Also, be strict! You don't have to hit them, but fake being extremely angry and scary to them. Once should be enough (with more minor hints at it from time to time, when necessary...a threat that the hellfire you breathed before might be revisited).
One more thing to remember is that this is partly just an expression that they are having "fun" with their friends. Sounds dumb, but people in groups in Korea are wont to express, in no uncertain terms, that they are "having fun". By being boisterous and running everywhere, they are expressing how much they are enjoying the experience. As long as they are doing no harm, be lenient. When they really are in possible danger, crack that (verbal) whip like you never have before.
Also, they are kids...
All this aside, I have had hellacious experiences as a camp counselor with kids from tons of other countries (international camp in Paris), so this is not just Koreans. Just tried to make my reply a little more Korea-specific.
Good luck.

Umbuku

The Sunday trip was uneventful but in the morning before we departed on the bus the tour coordinator told me that two of the boys had pushed one of the others into the schools pool after classes on Friday afternoon. They shouldn't have been near the pool, it's for the residents, and they should have been supervised by Mousey, they weren't.

In a meeting the director decided that this was enough and a martial lock down is now in force with them. They are not to be unsupervised at any time while on the school campus and must take all their breaks and lunches as a group under the eyes of the Mouse and a teacher from the school. Anyone who disobeys this instruction will be denied the privileges of going on the excursions. Any further infractions after that and their parents will be called and as a final resort they will be sent home to Korea if they continue to misbehave.

They were like whipped puppies for the afternoon class today.

I've organized with the Mouse to take them outside for the final hour of days they have an afternoon class so they can visit the Asian grocery store nearby to buy snacks and noodles and then to play a bit in the nearby park. This is a privilege that is under my control and I can deny them if they don't behave.

So far so good.

__________________
The free man thinks about nothing so little as death; his mind is focused upon life, not upon death. I always feel a bit sad when I see someone who thinks that the purpose of life is something other than living.

aging one

Take charge now in a strong but friendly way. Let them know they are out because of you. This now is make or break the way I see it.

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Too long in Exile, too long not singing my song.
Too long like a rolling stone, Too long in exile
Too long in Exile, baby you just arent my friend.
Too long in Exile my friend, Baby you can never go home again.

migrant