Korean students are pains in the butt - Ajarn Forum

Umbuku · 2nd August 2008, 06:17

I'm currently teaching a study tour group of 15 Korean teenagers ranging in age from 11 to 15. They are visiting Brisbane in Australia for 6 weeks and lucky me, I have the job of teaching and guiding them around. There are 7 girls and 8 boys.

The girls are no trouble, only a little dour and insolent at times but the boys are starting to make my blood pressure rise and my hands shake, and those who know me know that I am not an easily angered guy. They are flat out defiant, dangerous little monkeys. I give them a direct instruction, they nod and say "Yes teacher" and then continue doing what I have told them not to do.

In the classroom this is not a big problem, I can pull out the grammar worksheets and deny them privileges as punishment, or send them to a higher authority that will call their parents in Korea. But out in public this is a serious issue as we have to cross busy streets, keep the group together and safe and make sure we don't lose anyone.

The other day we were at a wildlife park and two of the boys were banging on the glass of a caged Taipan snake. Only the world's most dangerous and venomous snake which can kill you within 20 minutes. I told them to stop, explained the foolish and dangerous nature of their actions, they understood, I turned around to deal with other students and they were at it again.

Is this typical Korean boy behavior, or do I have a crew of social misfits sent on holiday to give their parents some peace?

Any ideas or techniques about how I can win their respect, short of leg sweeping them and putting them in a choke hold?

re_fuse · 2nd August 2008, 06:47

North or South ?

phuketbound · 2nd August 2008, 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umbuku

Is this typical Korean boy behavior, or do I have a crew of social misfits sent on holiday to give their parents some peace?

Any ideas or techniques about how I can win their respect, short of leg sweeping them and putting them in a choke hold?

Lucky man. You have them for only six weeks? Of course they are going to be bad, and excited to be out doing things in Australia!

Winning their respect would take longer than six weeks imo. You may have to do the choke hold! (

) Not!

Korean children in the classroom would definitely display different behaviours than outside the classroom. Most kids would. I think the only thing you can do is threaten to call their parents, or send them home. First though, you could threaten to take away their time to do the things that you have planned.

You could explain that the longer they misbehave, the less time they have for doing what they want. Unless you can't do that because of the program in the first place? If that's the case, then you can seperate the misbehaving ones and make sure they stick with you, so you can hold their hand so to speak. If that doesn't work just threaten to call their parents, and send them home.

The snake thing though is kids being kids. They are probably so excited and entranced at the snake in the first place. Just tell them that if they don't listen to you, and move away from the snake, then they may leave Australia with one hand, or one finger. Be very serious about it too.

goo_stewart · 2nd August 2008, 11:07

Unfortunately, as far as some Korean kids are concerned, strength is the only thing they understand. They are usually beaten to keep them in line in Korea, when this doesn't happen then they are on 'holiday' and will do as they choose. The only thing you can do is shame them in front of their peers or mix the boys with the girls in activities (they usually hate that). It is a toughy, that age in Korea is difficult.

robitusson · 2nd August 2008, 13:41

This was the advice I got from lasher: Identify the main culprit or ring-leader, then punish those to laugh at his jokes or respond to his leads, but not him. Soon they will isolate themselves from him.

Whatever you decide on stick with it, make it consistent and don't waver. Soon they'll realise what to expect from certain behaviour.

mucker · 2nd August 2008, 18:22

I'm working in Korea now and if the kids misbehave they get punishments of the same sort you'd see in army boot camp.

Making A frames with their bodies, kneeling for an hour on wood floors, hit with sticks, slaps in the face. Very occasionally a teacher (Korean) goes ballistic in them and beats the bejesus out of one of them and has to be restrained.

So it's understandable if they don't react to you talking to them. Like a previous poster said, punish the friends of the ring leader but not the ring leader, they'll learn.

I have to say that most Korean kids are a pleasure, but there is a strong degree of racism, ridiculous though it sounds, against the whitey. Ridiculous because they send their kids to Australia to study, but the kids have nationalist bull *&& drilled into them from elementary school. You my friend, are a walking tape recorder, not a teacher in Korean eyes.

Thank God I only have one month left in this blight of a country.

robitusson · 2nd August 2008, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by mucker

Korean eyes.

..slanty.

Umbuku · 2nd August 2008, 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by re_fuse

North or South ?

South mate. They don't let the Northerners out of the country for holidays. Most of them are city kids from Seoul or Busan area. A few from smaller towns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by robitusson

This was the advice I got from lasher: Identify the main culprit or ring-leader, then punish those to laugh at his jokes or respond to his leads, but not him. Soon they will isolate themselves from him.

That's good advice and I shall try that one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mucker

You my friend, are a walking tape recorder, not a teacher in Korean eyes.

Don't I realize that now. The only time the boys have actually listened to me and complied has been when I turn into a sergeant major and bring down the thunder. It looks like Boot Camp drills it is; complete lock down, monitored break times, no free time, no fun activities except as rewards for good behavior and compliance.

I should add that I don't think I would be having this much trouble with them but for their teacher who accompanied them from Korea. She's five foot nothing and has all the gumption and strength of a Thai whiskey and soda. The admin and I have started referring to her as Mousey. Calls of complaint back to the language school in Korea have already been made regarding her complete lack of ability to monitor and control her group. She does not sit in my classes but is supposed to keep them in line during lunch and recess times and whilst on external activities. The root cause of my angst lies with her inability to back me up, leaving it all up to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phuketbound

You may have to do the choke hold!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mucker

Making A frames with their bodies, kneeling for an hour on wood floors, hit with sticks, slaps in the face. Very occasionally a teacher (Korean) goes ballistic in them and beats the bejesus out of one of them and has to be restrained.

So tempting with this lot but highly illegal in Australia except in self defense, not to mention unethical.

I'll be seeing the charming little buggers tomorrow for an excursion to a theme park. At least they will be contained inside the park and the staff can put up with them for most of the day. All I have to deal with is any mess they may make.

stfranalum · 2nd August 2008, 22:10

if youre out in public, youre right, you cant reprimand them....its both too late, and however you cut it- they are still out-and-about.

what you CAN do is:

-make them wear a big fat sign around their necks
-have them wear a big hat- to embarass the snot out of them
-take their money, and let other kids go buy stuff

..basically you need to make them do something they dont want--- and that is to stick out, and be seen as different.

"anyone who doesnt listen to me, has to wear the 'I DONT LISTEN' sign. failure to do so will make us not go to nice places next time. instead we will visit a police station and jail."

sorted.

and there will be a backlash. but if its a safety thing and the kids arent listenign to you in public, you really need to go to the wall on it man, and stake your job on it. the school will understand, and when the parents cool down, they will too.

ive worked with kids in contexts like that (leading a group in public)...if you dont have the respect/control of the group, thats seriously dangerous. seriously.

and at this context...you dont have time to win their respect...you need to control them. period. if they dont listen to you, you dont have to work the situation. you need to fix it. now.

Umbuku · 2nd August 2008, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by stfranalum

-make them wear a big fat sign around their necks

They'd remove it and throw it at passing vehicles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stfranalum

-have them wear a big hat- to embarass the snot out of them

They'd invent a new way to grass ski using it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stfranalum

-take their money, and let other kids go buy stuff

Unfortunately the spending money is under the control of Mousey, not me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stfranalum

and at this context...you dont have time to win their respect...you need to control them. period. if they dont listen to you, you dont have to work the situation. you need to fix it. now.

But I hear where you are coming from mate. The study tours coordinator is already collecting all documentary evidence of their truculent behavior and Mousey's ineptness just in case their is a major incident out of this lot. I am under no illusions that as a casual employee the school would defend me if something goes wrong. I'd be swinging in the breeze.

stfranalum · 2nd August 2008, 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umbuku

They'd remove it and throw it at passing vehicles.

thats when you whip out the cell phone and arrange the day trip to be cancelled.

if it goes awry, and kids physically rebuke your orders, by trashing your sign, thats all you can do bro. pack it up and take them home. if the school wont let you do that,then it seems like you landed in a temporary job that you need to get out of. its a liability. and thats no joke, cause its your ass if the shit goes wrong.

document everything. photos, journals, and phone conversations.

i had the pleasure of being a residence hall director once. same thing. insane behavior i had little control over. document. document. document. it will save your ass when civil or criminal complaint is filed against you, if god forbid, something bad happens. and yes, when kids are THAT disobedient, something bad WILL happen. its just a matter of when. and with who.

Umbuku · 2nd August 2008, 22:42

In a way I'm actually enjoying this group even though they are driving me up the wall.

They are the first real teaching challenge I have had to face in several years.
My normal, trusted, tried and true bag of tricks are not working with them and I am forced to evolve.

Maybe I can rig up some sort of electro shock collars.

stfranalum · 2nd August 2008, 23:12

ive seen korean teachers hit their students with small sticks. and i dont mean a random lone wolf...at the academy i worked at, most of them did it.

think about that. may give you a hint as to how to approach this.

...and i dont mean whooping 'em

but it can reveal what makes them get in line.

good luck man. when (not if) you get them straight, id love to hear about it and what worked best.

IsaanAlex · 2nd August 2008, 23:45

Break them. Of course not their bones..just their spirit.

If you are weak, they will roll over on you...

First off...house meeting...then spell it out.

(1) Listen to me or I will hit you.
(2) Don't listen...and I will call your father and you are OUT. Your little Korean ass will be back in Kimchiland...and your parents will lose all the money they paid to send your ungrateful little ass here...

And be sure to turn their nationalistic and xenophobic tripe back on them.

Tell them how any shitty behavior is a blight on their ancestors honor, their families honor, and their nations honor. Tell them that their personal misbehaviors are making the previous three entities look lower than horseshit. [And that they are therefore a total disgrace.

]

After that, they should be compliant little puddles that you can poor into a clear 5 gallon drum and take on field trips.

~Alex
PS. No, my advice is not nice...but you are not dealing with just anyone. There are...Koreans.