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Not Teaching In Thailand Life beyond teaching in Thailand, whether still living in LOS and making a living by other means, or living in another country, teaching or otherwise. Plus the practicalities of visas and migration there.
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Old 10th May 2008, 12:17   #1 (permalink)
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Living/Teaching in Laos?

Can anyone help with links or info on living and teaching in Laos? Has anyone here actually worked there?
TIA
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Old 10th May 2008, 17:16   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Living/Teaching in Laos?

I've worked there before. Vientiane is where the bulk of the work is.

There are quite a lot of employers there now but many of them have been messed around by backpackers who only stayed around for 2 or 3 months [less sometimes].

If you haven't been in one country with one employer for quite a long time you might have problems.

Go to a guesthouse on the river, find a tuk-tuk driver that can speak reasonable English, and he'll give you a tour of the language centres and colleges.

Vientiane is a small city that closes at 11pm. Many people get bored quickly. The ex-pat community is closely knit too, so if you find things like Pat Pong market in Bangers entertaining, you'll need to change your ways!!!!

The hiring times are usually between terms, and you might not find enough work to tide you over [I didn't, hence the return to T'land].

Lao ISN'T Thailand. It's different. Just remember that.

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Old 11th May 2008, 02:55   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Living/Teaching in Laos?

I lived there for a year over a decade ago. It was a good place for families. Not so good for singles. The best jobs were with the International School which does require homecountry credentials and work experience. It pays well. Overseas hire contracts are better than local hire. (Free house, other benefits).

There was another smaller English language school. The best language school gig for adults was run by OZ AID. Do not remember the exact name but was sponsored by the Austrailan Government. The was a private Language School that was managed by a Malaysian and was focued on business English and it employed both native speakers and expats. Expats were paid much better than locals. Don Dok University did not pay foreigners well. A few worked there and were paid from their home countries Foreign Aid funds. (Usually MA TESOL or PhD. level).

The best expat group was the Hash House Harriers (The Drinkers with a Running Problem) and it met every Monday night. When I lived there, possibly only 300 expats lived in Vientiane, and about 60 would show up for the 2k and 10k runs. So this was the place to meet and discuss.

My favorite bar, The End Of the World Bar, has sadly appeared in Lonely Planet, so I imagine it is no longer worth a visit. Drinking a Beer Lao watching the sunset over the Makong was what I did for a night out. Of course my experiences are dated so don't know the situation now.

Many expats belonged to the Australian Embassy Club (nicknamed Club Apartheid-- because Lao People were excluded.) It had embassy privledges so you could get a real Oz steak reaonably priced. Oz beer too.

Medical treatment required emergency evacuation to Thailand to Nong Khai (Wattana Hospital). The embassy had a minor clinic $40 visit and arranged evacjuatiion to Thailand in emergency. (They had a nurse to accompany and van). They could arrange private hellicopter evacuation also. (Expensive)

Like SP above said, Many People get Bored Quickly. I always advised friends that it was a 5 day 4 night trip. By then you've seen it and done it.

It was not developed then, roads were often dirt which changed to mud. Transportation systems were virtually nonexistent. I lived in the expat area Ban Saphon Tong Tai, and if I wanted to go to a hotel disco on a Friday night, I biked in (on a Bicycle, Expats were not allowed to have motorcycles) and visited the disco. Then take a motorcycle tuktuk home.

There were only a few cafes, my favorite was the Fountain. I hear it has changed. In many ways, living in Lao PDR was like I had fallen off the end of the world. But communications were difficult then, no internet. International phone calls were $5 a minute. Etc. Back then their were no atms. Thai Banks opened the year I lived there and it definitely improved the banking system.

It was in terms of actual work (small international school with supportive expat families) it was the best work environment I ever had. Maximum freedom, good administration, supportive parents, very international community). I had an overseas hire contract that included a 3 bedroom house, relocation expenses, and international health insurance. Life was good there.

There were many problems with visas and work permits. I believe that this has been worked out.

Good luck. If you chose to live there pm back.

P.S. The best place to spend on Friday Night was my living room!
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Last edited by Killing Me Softly 101; 11th May 2008 at 02:56. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 11th May 2008, 07:09   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Living/Teaching in Laos?

Now I know where I want to retire Vienchan circa 1995....
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Old 12th May 2008, 13:25   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Living/Teaching in Laos?

Killing me softly, your memories would be jolted should you come back to Vientiane. I've only been here 6 years and some months but ...quite a lot is very different than you remember. In no particular order ...
ATMs on virtually every corner. (ANZ Bank work for you?) The old French Embassy medical staff have now set up a clinic with quite a lot of modern equip. You can visit as a walk in or buy various annual pre-paid plans and when you do visit after that the fee is nominal. Aussie clinic treats only "Commonwealth' patients.

The Aussie Club is now closed to all but Embassy staff and families. Quite an uproar from the expat community
to include open meetings w/the Ambassador all to no avail.

Foreigners not only own lot chak/moto sai but larger 4-wheeled vehicles as well. I've driven a Toyota Tiger for 5 years. Tax is 125% which can put vehicles in pretty high price range compared to LOS.

There are many, many disco's/clubs which stay open all hours dependent on how much they pay the local constabulary. They will not hesitate, however, especially with expats to stop you for offenses real and imagined to pad their meager salaries.

Jobs are available at several of the many schools now here. (Seems a new one goes up every week.)
Best gigs are Vientiane College, the Vientiane International School, and ours which will remain nameless. Usual
pay for 8-10 hours/week is from $10 to $15. Try 21st Century near That Luang, ACL next to the Mekong Hotel,
Lao-Singapore on Nong Bone Rd, Never mind the English speaking tuk tuk driver, just buy one of the '3 D' maps at any convenience store and look for the schools of English.

Best advice is to have certs, quals and experience. We don't take anyone without at least a CELTA or its
TESOL/TEFL equivilent. Neither will Vientiane College nor VIS.

In deference to the 'no name and shame' policy' I will recommend avoiding certain schools but will only do so
in a pm or in person.

Killing is still correct in that Lao is different. Much different than Thailand and it doesn't suit everyone. Please consider the regime, its history and be prepared for bureacracy, inefficiency, corruption and - outside Vientiane -
very low living and educational standards. I get NUOL graduates of 5 year programs in English who, when tested, have difficulty scoring above elementary. I have actually asked some applicants if we could speak in Lao as they are incoherent in English.

Cost of living is probably a little cheaper than LOS but going up steadily. Lots of new businesses and investment money coming in lately. Mining is huge and getting huger. We do one contract w/ a gold and copper mine with 650 students onsite. Other associated businesses are also clients for English Training.

Lastly, to agree in princlple with 'killing' make a visa run here, spend a few days, look around, knock on a few school doors and see if this is what you really want. Give me a heads up via pm and I'll give you my number. We can have coffee or a beer and I'll help as best I can. (No we don't have any vacancies at the moment. Waiting list.)

Hope that helps, good luck!
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Old 12th May 2008, 15:41   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Living/Teaching in Laos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killing Me Softly 101 View Post
I lived there for a year over a decade ago.
As I said, the information I had was dated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pawthoo View Post
Killing me softly, your memories would be jolted should you come back to Vientiane.
Strangely no desire. I enjoy Issan much more. Not fond of the little commie b*stards to the north. They were a pill in the past. But since I taught embassy staff's students, was pretty immune. Still they made life difficult. Like not giving us exit visas for 11 weeks after arriving. Waiting until the day our visas expired before renewing them and then only with a couple of Ambassadors threatening to withdraw Aid money to the government. Asking me for the names of all Lao people who came to my house so they could "talk" to them etc. I am sure the talking would have involve procedures not normally associated with debate or discussion.

They threw the staff of a missionary group, whose students were in our school, into jail for a bible study group. These people had chosen to go to the meetings. No cohesion. Expat staff was held several weeks then deported never to return. Local staff members like the van driver recieved sentences of 3-5 years each. I am not religious but this group sponsored things like dentist visits to remote villages. They also had revival group meetings in local languages. I have no problem with that but the communists did.

The Japanese did a lot of work developing, they put in the water supply system with chlorination for Vientiane for example. They also decided to build the Satellite up link to the world for the telecommunications network. The CPLao PDR turned around and sold it to a giant Thai Corp.

Where did the money go? One guess.

When the Japanese protested. They unsold it and then gave a giant Thai corp a 99 year lease on the Sat up link. Same price.

During the 20 celebration of the fall of Vientiane in 1995, Fidel Castro was staying at the Cuban Embassy 5 doors away from my house. I speak Spanish. I had been to the Embassy twice. Talked with the ambassador. Would have enjoyed having dinner with Castro. But did not even know he was in the country. No news. None. Just some commie government propaganda sheet once a week. Vientiane Times. I did wonder why there was a sudden presence of about 4 armed Lao soldiers with AK 47s and grenade belts. But was not really too unusual.

Driving around at night you often had military checkpoints for complete check of car. Once they saw you were a foreigner no problem. In fact the guards were often shaking. (Obviously, as an expat with a giant book of papers in my Glove box from many agencies, if the guard did something wrong it would be an international incident. Never had to pay any on the spot fines at least.

I was going to buy a car from a deputy minister. It was a Communist era VW. We agreed to a sum of $2300. The deal was supposed to occur the next day. 8 days later the DM walks into where I work. He wants to renegotiate the price.

I say, "Sir, I am an honorable man. In my country when to honorable men meet, make an agreement, and shake hands we do not renegotiate." I go up walked out of the room and did not return. By the way he had to get permission to by a Lada from some government agency.

So no. Never return.

Been there done that. And at a much more interesting time. Before backpackers discovered it.

PS. Someone wrote me about teaching in Primary Grades. This is at the International school.

I copied it and present it here also.

You should be single or have a teaching spouse. 0, 1 or 2 children.

You should have 2 or more years teaching your state or national curriculum;

2 or more years experience at the grade level you apply for;

and 2 or more years abroad teaching preferably some in Asia.

The Celta will not be important. The DELTA might be if you also hold the BA in Education and the Appropriate UK credentials.

The MA TESOL is the recommended ESL qualification or additional state certification.

Business experience is not important except to fill in gaps in your resume between college and school placements.

Perhaps work at the adult Australian language program would be more suitable. But it is also quite competitive. (MA TESOL preferred).

I have no knowledge of schools but since the average daily wage is about $1-2 per day per person, I doubt that you would make enough to live a reasonable lifestyle, or even afford to pay you flight home.

There are sometimes contracts available with businesses (SHIN Corp. was doing ESL teaching with its staff when I lived there.)

I do defer to the poster above as they have much more current experience and contacts.

I did enjoy my time there, It was a wonderful place to work. The expats were mostly from diplomatic staff and NGOs with a few MKs (missionary kids) and were a fun group. It was a great place to raise a family at that time. The kids at the school were great.

When I lived there it was quite cheap as there was little to buy. I believe they now have supermarkets and shopping centers, When I lived there, the Morning Market and the night market were it. There was a Swedish bakery, and Italian Restaurant, a pizza place, and Indian Place. The local version of KFC Uncle???? started that year. No cable. No English Radio. No internet.

Only car available new was the Chinese version of the Fiat 1000 a four wheel drive version called a Panda. $16000 no thank you. Unless of course you were a diplomat.

They did have cheap Russian vodka and reasonably priced French wines.
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Last edited by Killing Me Softly 101; 12th May 2008 at 15:47. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 12th May 2008, 15:52   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Living/Teaching in Laos?

[quote=Killing Me Softly 101;952209]As I said, the information I had was dated.

Strangely no desire. I enjoy Issan much more. Not fond of the little commie b*stards to the north. They were a pill in the past. But since I taught embassy staff's students, was pretty immune. Still they made life difficult. Like not giving us exit visas for 11 weeks after arriving. Waiting until the day our visas expired before renewing them and then only with a couple of Ambassadors threatening to withdraw Aid money to the government. Asking me for the names of all Lao people who came to my house so they could "talk" to them etc. I am sure the talking would have involve procedures not normally associated with debate or discussion.

They threw the staff of a missionary group, whose students were in our school, into jail for a bible study group. These people had chosen to go to the meetings. No cohesion. Expat staff was held several weeks then deported never to return. Local staff members like the van driver recieved sentences of 3-5 years each. I am not religious but this group sponsored things like dentist visits to remote villages. They also had revival group meetings in local languages. I have no problem with that but the communists did.

The Japanese did a lot of work developing, they put in the water supply system with chlorination for Vientiane for example. They also decided to build the Satellite up link to the world for the telecommunications network. The CPLao PDR turned around and sold it to a giant Thai Corp.

Where did the money go? One guess.

When the Japanese protested. They unsold it and then gave a giant Thai corp a 99 year lease on the Sat up link. Same price.

During the 20 celebration of the fall of Vientiane in 1995, Fidel Castro was staying at the Cuban Embassy 5 doors away from my house. I speak Spanish. I had been to the Embassy twice. Talked with the ambassador. Would have enjoyed having dinner with Castro. But did not even know he was in the country. No news. None. Just some commie government propaganda sheet once a week. Vientiane Times. I did wonder why there was a sudden presence of about 4 armed Lao soldiers with AK 47s and grenade belts. But was not really too unusual.

Driving around at night you often had military checkpoints for complete check of car. Once they saw you were a foreigner no problem. In fact the guards were often shaking. (Obviously, as an expat with a giant book of papers in my Glove box from many agencies, if the guard did something wrong it would be an international incident. Never had to pay any on the spot fines at least.

I was going to buy a car from a deputy minister. It was a Communist era VW. We agreed to a sum of $2300. The deal was supposed to occur the next day. 8 days later the DM walks into where I work. He wants to renegotiate the price.

I say, "Sir, I am an honorable man. In my country when to honorable men meet, make an agreement, and shake hands we do not renegotiate." I go up walked out of the room and did not return. By the way he had to get permission to by a Lada from some government agency.

So no. Never return.

Been there done that. And at a much more interesting time. Before backpackers discovered it.

PS. Someone wrote me about teaching in Primary Grades. This is at the International school.

I copied it and present it here also.

You should be single or have a teaching spouse. 0, 1 or 2 children.

You should have 2 or more years teaching your state or national curriculum;

2 or more years experience at the grade level you apply for;

and 2 or more years abroad teaching preferably some in Asia.

The Celta will not be important. The DELTA might be if you also hold the BA in Education and the Appropriate UK credentials.

The MA TESOL is the recommended ESL qualification or additional state certification.

Business experience is not important except to fill in gaps in your resume between college and school placements.

Perhaps work at the adult Australian language program would be more suitable. But it is also quite competitive. (MA TESOL preferred).

I have no knowledge of schools but since the average daily wage is about $1-2 per day per person, I doubt that you would make enough to live a reasonable lifestyle, or even afford to pay you flight home.

There are sometimes contracts available with businesses (SHIN Corp. was doing ESL teaching with its staff when I lived there.)

I do defer to the poster above as they have much more current experience and contacts.

I did enjoy my time there, It was a wonderful place to work. The expats were mostly from diplomatic staff and NGOs with a few MKs (missionary kids) and were a fun group. It was a great place to raise a family at that time. The kids at the school were great.

When I lived there it was quite cheap as there was little to buy. I believe they now have supermarkets and shopping centers, When I lived there, the Morning Market and the night market were it. There was a Swedish bakery, and Italian Restaurant, a pizza place, and Indian Place. The local version of KFC Uncle???? started that year. No cable. No English Radio. No internet.

Only car available new was the Chinese version of the Fiat 1000 a four wheel drive version called a Panda. $16000 no thank you. Unless of course you were a diplomat.

They did have cheap Russian vodka and reasonably priced French wines. And curfew was 12 midnight until 5am. Locals never pushed this. I did get stopped a few time after curfew. My Lao friends would always be home before that.
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