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Thread: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

  1. #46
    Veni,Vidi,Vici Array soijetcornergirl's Avatar
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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    The tefl provider industry in Thailand has managed over a very lengthy period of time to convince many schools and others that a tefl course is a requirement of one sort or another to teach in Thailand. That's what has happened and that's why it has become urban and suburban legend in Thailand that you must have one to teach here. I've never believed it (no one was ever able to show a Thai government regulation to this effect) and have always felt it was complete nonsense and especially so for those individuals who graduated from university teacher licensing programs.

    What has happened most recently is that the MoE (TCT) has formulated qualifications and requirements for the national course (topic of another thread - http://www.ajarnforum.net/vb/paperwo...do-course.html) where there is no mention of a tefl certificate. There is mention (quite a lot, actually) of degrees and further professional education that will qualify and lead to admission to the course and eventual awarding of the new course license.

    Tefl courses are very important to the tefl providers. They may even be important to some of their students. None of this, however, makes a tefl certificate a requirement to teach legally in Thailand; and to promote, foster or otherwise mislead less than knowledgeable individuals into believing a tefl certificate is required is just plain unethical and manipulative.

    At the same time, if someone wants to take such a course for whatever reason, that is their choice, but they should be clearly told by the tefl course provider that it is not a Thai government requirement for licensing as a teacher in Thailand and will not guarantee you same or acceptance on the course being discussed in this thread.

    When people pay their money for the tefl courses, they should clearly know what they are getting and what they are not getting. From my experience, I know they are often told what they want to hear and what works for the tefl courses. This is unfair to the inexperienced and naive prospective students and why there needs to be far more transparency in the industry than there has been to date. Far more.
    Last edited by soijetcornergirl; 22nd February 2008 at 06:41.
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    Senior Member Array MisterStretch's Avatar
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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    Quote Originally Posted by soijetcornergirl
    None of this, however, makes a tefl certificate a requirement to teach legally in Thailand; and to promote, foster or otherwise mislead less than knowledgeable individuals into believing a tefl certificate is required is just plain unethical and manipulative
    It's not often that I agree with this poster but what she says here is true.

    Now, you must also consider that many of the 'better' schools in Thailand require a TEFL/TESOL/CELTA certificate for employment in their school system. While it's not a requirement dictated by the Thai government it is a requirement dictated by many schools.

  3. #48
    dia dhuit Array zehner's Avatar
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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    Quote Originally Posted by luckydog
    thanks for that zehner...very constructive!!
    thanks mate...it is my duty to help

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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    Quote Originally Posted by MisterStretch
    It's not often that I agree with this poster but what she says here is true.

    Now, you must also consider that many of the 'better' schools in Thailand require a TEFL/TESOL/CELTA certificate for employment in their school system. While it's not a requirement dictated by the Thai government it is a requirement dictated by many schools.
    You don't get a job at any of the schools I've worked at without a TEFL. Been here a long time and worked, or been associated with, many schools. I'm not going to allow someone with absolutely no experience/training/preparation to teach the students in my schools. Ideally, to teach a subject I want BEds or PGCE but how many of those are there to teach in Thai private and government schools? Not many, so I have to do the best with what I have and a teacher with a TEFL gets the job always ahead of the teacher without any training/knowledge of teaching. You'll find that many government schools, especially out in the sticks, will employ anyone who looks foriegn. A degree/TEFL you'll be top of the tree, a degree or a TEFL you'll get work. That's the reality of Thai education. Plus the hundreds of language schools in Thailand that teach only TEFL want TEFL trained teachers, not surprisingly.
    -----
    Quote Originally Posted by soijetcornergirl
    The tefl provider industry in Thailand has managed over a very lengthy period of time to convince many schools and others that a tefl course is a requirement of one sort or another to teach in Thailand....
    As said before it's usually a school requirement. But click on the websites of TEFL providers on this website and you'll find only one or two state that a TEFL is a legal requirement. Try it. You'll find reputable TEFL schools advertise TEFL training for TEFL teachers plus benefits such as visa, job help, etc.
    Last edited by Loaded; 22nd February 2008 at 08:09. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Loaded
    You don't get a job at any of the schools I've worked at without a TEFL.
    That seems like a very definitive position, yet a little later you say

    Quote Originally Posted by Loaded
    Ideally, to teach a subject I want BEds or PGCE but how many of those are there to teach in Thai private and government schools? Not many, so I have to do the best with what I have and a teacher with a TEFL gets the job always ahead of the teacher without any training/knowledge of teaching.
    It seem like the schools don't really require a TEFL. It seems, from what you have written, it's a desirable addition and all other things being equal the TEFL holder will be hired. However, from what you say, I believe that you would gladly hire someone with a B.Ed./PGCE even if that person didn't have a TEFL.

    I also suspect, though it is less clear, that the schools would be willing (perhaps happy) to hire someone with a BA and six or seven years teaching, in Thailand, the type of students the school has, assuming that reference checks are positive, even if that person didn't have a TEFL.

    I strongly suspect that the only organizations that really insist upon a TEFL without exception (or extremely limited exceptions) are the "better" language schools. So if a person plans to teach adults in language schools exclusively, that person had better get a TEFL, perhaps even the CELTA.

    For those who don't plan to teach adults in language schools, but will teach children, I am sure that a TEFL would be of benefit. However, judging from comments from Matthew and others, a TEFL that is geared to adults, like the CELTA is of limited benefit - primarily as a foundation and confidence builder (though that is no small thing).

    I have no problem with a TEFL. I believe that for many it is highly desirable and for some perhaps absolutely essential. My objection is people saying that a TEFL is required when it is only one, perhaps very important, factor.

    It seems to me that there are two main types of schools/organizations that would just about absolutely not hire someone with a B.Ed. but without a TEFL. The first type would be those who don't want a B.Ed. and are not really interested so much in educating the students. Associated with that attitude would likely come a host of other problems. Hopefully that group is small. My reasons for not wanting to work there should be obvious.

    The other type would be the better language schools. These schools are entirely (at least for Thailand) professional and a pleasure to work for. Except, since teaching P6 for a bit more than six years, I now have no interest in teaching adults. No matter how attractive such a place to work is it would not be for me. But many others would love to work at such places. To those, the message is clear: get a TEFL, and one with the standard number of hours/practice teaching, etc.

  6. #51
    Senior Member Array russellsimpson's Avatar
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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    Well summated Soijet. latm as well.

    Couldn't have put it any better.

    I think your correct in certain practicalities Loaded. I sense though that you may be talking about a situation that is quickly disappearing.

    At the same time, if someone wants to take such a course for whatever reason, that is their choice, but they should be clearly told by the tefl course provider that it is not a Thai government requirement for licensing as a teacher in Thailand and will not guarantee you same or acceptance on the course being discussed in this thread.
    That's exactly right.

    And I'm certain the better TEFL providers aqre being responsible in that regard. But there's always a lot of scammers.

    Do your research, folks coming here to work. Do the research.
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  7. #52
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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    soijet....excellent post!!!!!! Very well said!!!!

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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    Quote Originally Posted by soijetcornergirl

    What has happened most recently is that the MoE (TCT) has formulated qualifications and requirements for the national course (topic of another thread - http://www.ajarnforum.net/vb/paperwo...do-course.html) where there is no mention of a tefl certificate. There is mention (quite a lot, actually) of degrees and further professional education that will qualify and lead to admission to the course and eventual awarding of the new course license.

    :
    Your quote quotes your own post that quotes someone else's post on another website who reported their experience.

    I'll agree with a lot you said, however the only thing compulsory for TLs will be:

    1) Culture Course

    2) Teacher Proficiency Exam. There is no compulsory course although many Rajabahts are advertising 1-year courses for 60-80K THB and the TC are pushing these. I believe a little self-prep would be sufficient for a Thai written multi-choice exam.

    3) Degree + 1 year's experience

    There is no mention of a TEFL certificate as it isn't a TEFL qualification or exam. The TC are trying to improve standards of Teachers teaching subjects as I understand things.

    a TEFL isn't necessary for a TL, but a degree is. True, and I think it's always been true. I think if you look at the TEFL provider's websites, you'll find only one that pushes the idea a TEFL will make you legal. If you want to swim, you have 2 choices: 1) jump in the deep end, 2) Learn to swim before jumping in the deep end. Both are personal choices.

    TEFL and teaching subjects involve completely different methodology and pedagogical approaches.

  9. #54
    Holy Diver Array robitusson's Avatar
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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Loaded
    1) Culture Course 2) Teacher Proficiency Exam. There is no compulsory course although many Rajabahts are advertising 1-year courses for 60-80K THB and the TC are pushing these. I believe a little self-prep would be sufficient for a Thai written multi-choice exam. 3) Degree + 1 year's experience
    Even with experience and proficiency exam, you still havr to do the culture course?

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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    Thanks for that soijet...that precisely what i was saying.

    interesting responses you got compared to what i got....must have someting to do with those green rep power points.......shallow people lor!!

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    dia dhuit Array zehner's Avatar
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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    Quote Originally Posted by luckydog
    interesting responses
    sure are boss. so do you still want Phil to take down the tefl ads?

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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    WELL done ZEHNER you've done it again!!!

    have you bothered to reda soijets post

  13. #58
    dia dhuit Array zehner's Avatar
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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    Quote Originally Posted by luckydog
    you've done it again!!!
    another classic line? a witty retort??? whadda i do????

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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    WELL done ZEHNER you've done it again!!!

    have you bothered to read soijets post

  15. #60
    dia dhuit Array zehner's Avatar
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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    am i seeing double?

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