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Thread: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

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    degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    so with all this talk of 'teachers licences' and '80000 baht education courses', is Thailand now saying that their requirements for an English language teacher are more than what is required to work in the profession, say in the UK, or the rest of Europe?

    If this is the case, then why do we continue to see jobs advertised, that do not state these new requirements?

    Also, why are all the Thailand TEFL providers still 'providing', when what they have to provide is no-longer relevant?

    What is going on?

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    Senior Member Array ajarn farang's Avatar
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    Rant Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    they are idiots mate. i had a lecture from bird at chula fac of e, talking about training of teachers, thai and farang alike. saying that tl takes about 9 months p/t (is that right?). what is the point of having a tl from "thailand", when you can get a pgce from uk in 1 year, which is a proper qualification accepted all over. she looked shocked and bemused by this revelation.

    they are also robbing bastards out to make some extra (of our hard earned) cash.
    -----
    Quote Originally Posted by azingazingzing
    If this is the case, then why do we continue to see jobs advertised, that do not state these new requirements?
    because as usual they bring in lofty restrictions that they are not in a position to enforce (cart before the horse).
    -----
    Quote Originally Posted by azingazingzing
    Also, why are all the Thailand TEFL providers still 'providing', when what they have to provide is no-longer relevant?
    well yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by azingazingzing
    What is going on?
    fuck knows. it's always like this, fucking merri-go-round.
    Last edited by ajarn farang; 18th February 2008 at 22:39. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Established User Array av8tor's Avatar
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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    Quote Originally Posted by azingazingzing
    so with all this talk of 'teachers licences' and '80000 baht education courses', is Thailand now saying that their requirements for an English language teacher are more than what is required to work in the profession, say in the UK, or the rest of Europe?
    With the inclusion of the Culture course, the answer is YES. You must be qualified to teach in the UK, US, Canada, Oz, or the Philipines, plus be trained in Thai Culture and Ethics.

    If this is the case, then why do we continue to see jobs advertised, that do not state these new requirements?
    Because there is a grace/waiver period of anywhere from 1 to 3 years. Schools do not have to hire fully-qualified teachers.

    Also, why are all the Thailand TEFL providers still 'providing', when what they have to provide is no-longer relevant?
    Because they are the machine that will continue feeding short-term warm bodies into the system, minimalizing disruption to current practices.

    What is going on?
    Thai teachers are trying to "professionalize" their ranks, so they can get higher wages, more respect, and hopefully reduce the shortage of Thais entering the teaching profession.

    TEFL providers are continuing to make money.

    Schools continue to employ farangs for a year (you know, they all go back home after 6 months to a year anyway). Drastic shortages can be easily filled with fully-qualified (and lower-paid) Filipinos.

    Same same, but different. And more expensive if you want to live here more than a year (6k for culture course) or 3 years (80k for teachers course).
    When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.

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    Senior Member Array ajarn farang's Avatar
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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    thanks for the info. to be honest i don't know what i'm talking about, i just needed to rant.
    -----
    Quote Originally Posted by av8tor
    Thai teachers are trying to "professionalize" their ranks, so they can get higher wages, more respect, and hopefully reduce the shortage of Thais entering the teaching profession.
    this is good.
    -----
    Quote Originally Posted by av8tor
    plus be trained in Thai Culture and Ethics.
    but i've heard that the thai culture course is a joke.
    Last edited by ajarn farang; 19th February 2008 at 06:23. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    I don't see where taking a TEFL course helps you get legal here in view of the fact that such courses aren't part of the new requirements. It may make help you get a job in some instances, but chances are it won't be a legal job unless you qualify otherwise by having the basic requirement of a degree.
    "Life is so much better here since I discovered the Ignore List."

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    Senior Member Array russellsimpson's Avatar
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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    I don't see where taking a TEFL course helps you get legal here in view of the fact that such courses aren't part of the new requirements. It may make help you get a job in some instances, but chances are it won't be a legal job unless you qualify otherwise by having the basic requirement of a degree.
    I've seen varying opinions on this one soijet.

    Somebody, with time on their hand should try to put something definitve together on what is known to date, then see if it can be stickied. I wouldn't know where to start.

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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    There are many reasons for taking a TEFL course:

    1) Learn the basics of teaching with practical training
    2) Learn how to discipline, manage, and control a Thai classroom
    3) Learn how to prepare lessons
    4) Most schools require one whether the TC does or not
    5) Non-imm B before you arrive
    6) Employment support - most schools manage outside contracts or have close connections with employers

    The TC have messed up and it's not only farang teachers that are complaining. Thai teachers and especially Thai schools are pretty annoyed as well. Watch it all collapse as the impossibilty of the proposed changes becomes obvious over hiring season.

    TC's training is theory only tested by an exam. Thai teachers can take the exam without the training, so I'm sure it's also possible for foreign teachers to avoid the 1-year training course - and who the hell is going to pay 80K for it? And remember you need to have taught for 1 year already. I couldn't have walked into a classroom and taught with taking a TEFL first. Wouldn't of had a clue what to do.

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    Senior Member Array russellsimpson's Avatar
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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    TC's training is theory only tested by an exam. Thai teachers can take the exam without the training, so I'm sure it's also possible for foreign teachers to avoid the 1-year training course - and who the hell is going to pay 80K for it? And remember you need to have taught for 1 year already. I couldn't have walked into a classroom and taught with taking a TEFL first. Wouldn't of had a clue what to do.
    I presume you mean in the case of a teacher with no previous training, professional teaching qualifications.

    For anybody with these the TEFL courses are pretty well useless in my estimation.

    But that discussion is for another day.

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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Loaded
    4) Most schools require one whether the TC does or not
    I seriously doubt that that is true. Most certainly mine does not (though they will pay a bit more if you have one), and I suspect that most schools do not require one. Many language schools may, but even here I would hesitate at the "most".

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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    Quote Originally Posted by russellsimpson
    I presume you mean in the case of a teacher with no previous training, professional teaching qualifications. For anybody with these the TEFL courses are pretty well useless in my estimation.
    I'd venture to say there's some truth in that statement.

    However, I've seen many qualified teachers come across the course on which I work and some of these teachers just can understand that presenting a foreign language is not the same as lecturing about this or that subject.

    They bang on about their experiences and qualifications whist demonstrating sub-standard teaching methods or teaching in a way that is not as productive as it should be in a ESL classroom.

    Some of these teachers adapt from the start and shine; for some, the lights get switched on half way through the course while others just leave pissed off because they refuse to get with the program.

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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    I believe the TC exam is a multi-guess 50% pass exam written for Thais and translated for Farang. Now, I'm pretty sure I could eliminate 2 or 3 of the possible answers for each question with or without a Thai training course. I don't think you would need any preparartion to pass if you have 1-year of teaching under your belt.

    Speculative example of type of question set by the TC:

    What's a Lesson Plan?

    1) A book
    2) Discipline
    3) Description of planned activities
    4) Yes

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    Veni,Vidi,Vici Array soijetcornergirl's Avatar
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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Loaded
    There are many reasons for taking a TEFL course:

    1) Learn the basics of teaching with practical training
    2) Learn how to discipline, manage, and control a Thai classroom
    3) Learn how to prepare lessons
    4) Most schools require one whether the TC does or not
    5) Non-imm B before you arrive
    6) Employment support - most schools manage outside contracts or have close connections with employers

    The TC have messed up and it's not only farang teachers that are complaining. Thai teachers and especially Thai schools are pretty annoyed as well. Watch it all collapse as the impossibilty of the proposed changes becomes obvious over hiring season.

    TC's training is theory only tested by an exam. Thai teachers can take the exam without the training, so I'm sure it's also possible for foreign teachers to avoid the 1-year training course - and who the hell is going to pay 80K for it? And remember you need to have taught for 1 year already. I couldn't have walked into a classroom and taught with taking a TEFL first. Wouldn't of had a clue what to do.
    I never said anything about there not possibly being reasons that someone would want to take a tefl course. I was and am talking about the worth of such a course for becoming legally licensed in Thailand as a teacher. There is none that I can find given the fact that tefl courses are not even mentioned in the recent list of requirements for obtaining an MoE teaching license.

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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    I don't think it's in the current regulations that a TEFL is required.

    I think the Thais are following the Koreans, Taiwanese, Japanese, etc. in that regard.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Loaded
    4) Most schools require one whether the TC does or not


    Simply not the case.

    The TEFL providers are going to have to step back and re-evaluate their positions, certainly with respect to accepting students who may be doshing out the money and finding themselves pretty well in the same position as before they "did the course', so to speak..

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    Established User Array av8tor's Avatar
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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    Quote Originally Posted by crew
    However, I've seen many qualified teachers come across the course on which I work and some of these teachers just can understand that presenting a foreign language is not the same as lecturing about this or that subject.

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    Re: degree and tefl no longer sufficient lor?

    Quote Originally Posted by russellsimpson
    I don't think it's in the current regulations that a TEFL is required.

    I think the Thais are following the Koreans, Taiwanese, Japanese, etc. in that regard.



    Simply not the case.

    The TEFL providers are going to have to step back and re-evaluate their positions, certainly with respect to accepting students who may be doshing out the money and finding themselves pretty well in the same position as before they "did the course', so to speak..
    Exactly.

    I wonder what percentage of the present (or prospective) tefl students in Thailand have even started waking up to the fact that their certificates will count for naught when it comes to qualifying for an MoE license?

    I also agree that most schools do not "require" a tefl. That is only the well-worn mantra of the tefl course industry.

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