Thread: Thais urged to fight corruption at early age

Thais urged to fight corruption at early age
Copyright 2004 Deutsche Presse-Agentur; Deutsche Presse-Agentur; November 29, 2004 Monday

Kindergarten tots will be enlisted in the fight against corruption in Thailand, under new Education Ministry proposals to revamp school-teaching for a new era.

Education Minister Adisai Bhodaramik said the country's school curriculum should dovetail with the country's development needs, and that corruption is a chief impediment for modernization.

Among new proposals announced during a seminar Sunday, schoolchildren would be instructed on the dangers to society of corruption and bribery.

The minister said those lessons should be instilled from early on, including at the kindergarten level.

Analysts and commentators often cite corruption as a growing problem that is becoming more widespread and accepted in Thai society. dpa tl pw

Soooo, Thai tots are being told NOT to emulate Thaksin?

At 3 years old, my son is already being 'taught' by the Thai in-laws that it is okay to kick grandma in the head, throw sand on the brain-injured uncle, and strongarm anyone through a combination of charm, good looks, and stubborness; his hands just need to grow a little before he can hold the big, brown envelopes.

Wait till he grows up and dad teaches him how to charm the ladies, hehe...

IA

Why don't they just stick to Buddhism? There's no room in Buddha's 8-fold path for corruption.

Key word 'upbringing'. Look at what you know about Thaksin. Now look at his son, the druggie/cheater on exams in college. It's upbringing.

I'm not a big fan of Christianity and it's close neighbors Judasim and Islam, but I like Buddhism (which doesn't stipulate that there's a god or afterlife). Thailand is Buddhist and the "mai bpen rai" attitude, as well as the "sanook" attitude and saving face are all pretty Buddhist. Point is that I think they already have as good of an antidote to corruption as there is. Of course there are your currupt monks, and so on…

Incidentally, I have a close Thai friend in the states, and she's super honest and loyal and probably incapable of corruption. I credit her early life in Thailand for that. I tend to think that a lot of the corruption in Thailand is due to the influence of the West, but, don't bother telling me that's naive, I know it is… and that a lot of Thai curruption is homebrewed or Chinese import…

Originally Posted by Just another BOF

I tend to think that a lot of the corruption in Thailand is due to the influence of the West

It's possible that a lot of the symptons are the result of Western influence but as to the causes I don't know. Can you tell me where in Western culture rich people are looked up to because they must have been good in a previous life.
Where in western culture respect for government officials is the norm. No religion encourages corruption so don't be so naive and dare I sat trendy - lefty for blaming faults that the Thais are capable of perpetuating themselves, on the West.

What I said was: "I tend to think that a lot of the corruption in Thailand is due to the influence of the West, but, don't bother telling me that's naive, I know it is… and that a lot of Thai curruption is homebrewed or Chinese import…" So, it isn't really fair to call me naive, and remind me that "Thais are capable of perpetuating themselves… [whatever that means]"

In America we also admire the wealthy and government officials enough to re-elect probably the most incompetent, and rich president in U.S. history. Many of the rich have a sense of "entitlement," meaning they feel they were chosen by god to be privileged. Conversely, many of the poor feel inferior.

While no religion encourages corruption, the influence of the West that I mention isn't Christianity, and especially isn't the more gentle side of Christianity, it's more along the lines of opportunism, individualism and commercialism.

My Thai friend is currently visiting in Thailand and she is dissapointed in the ways it has changed, which she characterizes as Thailand becoming too Westernized. Now, everyone is only concerned about making money, and themselves, so she says…

Added after 14 minutes:

Originally Posted by blackjack

Thailand is Buddhist

It's all semantics, really, but Thailand is a mixture of it's own brand of Buddhism, Hinduism, Animism, pure superstition and God knows what else. It's a "Buddhist" country like Australia is a "Christian" country. Most Thais will tell you they're Buddhist. Then again G W Bush will tell you he's a Christian. Does that make him one? Would JC agree? If I claim I'm an astronaut, does that make it so?

"Saving face" may have once had positive aspects, but now, rather than being an antidote to corruption, it's one of the main excuses for it. Ditto "mai pen rai".

I agree that Thailand is a mix of religions (Buddhism not being so far from Hinduism in many respects, while being quite diffrent from Christianity/Judaism/Islam), but think that the root of the "mai bpen rai" attitude, the concept of "sanook", the smiling, and "saving face" are to be found in the Thais brand of Buddhism, such as in its emphasis on the importance of one's attitude in the immediate present irrespective of concepts of past and future. Buddhism always emphasizes the being in the present, the overcoming of the ego and the illusion of a separate self.

Certainly anything can be co-opted for corruption, such as GW uses Christianity as a front for particularly heinous, cruel, selfish, and highly immoral acts. However, because Christianity stresses what happens after death, and because one can be forgiven at the end, there is plenty of room for corruption in the meantime, especially if one's "faith" is based on erroneous interpretations of metaphors taken literally.

Because Buddhism stresses calm and peace in the moment (which is why blowing one's lid, or "jai raan" is so unacceptable) you have the Thai proclivity to a peaceful and accepting nature. I think it's a pretty good recipe. I especially noticed the difference between Thailand and the U.S. when I got back from a trip and returned to NY only to be assaulted by honking horns and people walking into me on the street. Despite the horrendous traffic in Thailand, the honking is comparatively minimal compared to NY, and no one ever expected me to get out of their way in Thailand.

People's actions are based on an underlying philosophy, whatever that is, no matter how mangled or amorphous it may be. Thailand's Buddhism is being replaced by Western individualism, opportunism, consumerism… Sure, they always had corruption, but the corruption is less compatible with an underlying Buddhist philosophy than it is with Western lethal combinations of Christianity and predatory capitalism (see War on Iraq…).

I mentioned in the last post that I have a close Thai friend who is now traveling in Thailand. She reports that it has changed much since she left about 20 years ago, and that is has been “Westernized” too much.

Originally Posted by blackjack

Thailand's Buddhism is being replaced by Western individualism, opportunism, consumerism…

With all due respect to your friend, money and materialism have always been important in this part of the world. It's the influence of the Chinese, not the evil West.

I mentioned the Chinese, you might remember. Selfishness and greed are a part of every culture as they are a part of human nature, but they take root and flourish in environments that are more conducive to individualism, opportunism, commercialism… There apparently isn't much question that Thailand and Thais have changed over the last few decades, and the materialsm… have become more endemic. There is no question that over this same period Thailand has had much more contact with the West. Granted that the Chinese certainly have dominated the business sector, the West has also had an undeniable influence which many would see as corrupting, that's if you miss the smiles.

Added after 50 seconds:

PS. Is that Nick Cave?

Added after 36 minutes:

Difference between Christianity and Buddhism.

Christianity: There is an afterlife. The present moment isn't important, it's where you go after you die. Your belief is more important than your actions (you must believe in Christ or you go to hell no matter who you are or your deeds). You must have faith. You pray to your god.

Buddhism: There isn't necessarily an afterlife and no heaven and hell. The present moment is all important because time is an illusion in consicousness. Your actions are more important than your beliefs, beliefs and faith being largely irrelevant (why in Zen Buddhism they use riddles to confound the intellect and try to breach an opening through the rational mind and conceptual formulations). You do not wait for the afterlife, NOW is the ultimate. There is no separate God, you are part and parcel of God if anyone cares to use such a comment. You meditate (that's pretty different from Christianity because one is trying to achieve an immediate state of consciousness, so to speak, as opposed to just having faith in a guarantee of something that's going to happen after you die).

I think if one can appreciate some of these critical differences between Buddhism and Christianity one can see how an underlying Buddhist influence is compatible with much of what one likes about Thai culture.

Well, I agree with your generalizations as broad sweeping generalizations. Everyplace has changed, all cultures are in flux. I don't think they contradict my more specific allegations, however.

Added after 9 minutes:

Oh yeah, that album rocked. That's the one with "Tupelooooooo." F'ing loved that album. There was the "Little Girl Tree" and the one about the circus…