tonyd

Yes, radman, it is possible to get coverage for pre-existing conditions. There are some international insurance companies that will cover pre-existing conditions if you insure with them for 24 months without a claim on that condition. Whether they will cover your hip replacement, I don't know. But we can find out together, if you'd like. Please contact me at E-InsureThailand with complete information about yourself (name, age, etc.) and the more important aspects of your health history. There is no charge for this service or any of the other services we provide.

E-InsureThailand has now become "Thailand's One Stop Insurance Shop for Expats". In addition to being able to offer life, health and general lines (auto, fire, theft, etc.) insurance through some of the top insurance companies in Thailand, we can also offer clients, who have much greater (and more costly) insurance needs, a wide selection of international health and travel insurance plans to choose from, through our relationship with a large international insurance broker. Buying insurance through E-InsureThailand won't cost you any more money, but it could help save you from a lot of frustration and disappointment. (Whoops! Sorry. You've caught me bragging a little).

Bangkok Phil

Tony, on your website you offer both health insurance coverage sold through a Life Insurance company and health insurance coverage sold through a General Insurance company. Why? What are the major differences in the coverage offered through these two distinctly different type of sources. What factors should an insurance buyer consider when choosing which source to buy through?

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tonyd

Well, Phil, it all began because my Thai wife is a life insurance agent and I wanted to help her sell insurance to expats at the school where I was teaching . It soon became apparent, though, that we faced a lot of product marketing hurdles trying to sell life insurance to expats.

The highest priority for most expats we talked with was medical insurance. That was fine. We offered good health insurance coverage as an attachment to a life insurance policy. But...many of the expats we talked with really didn’t feel a need for Thai baht life insurance, since they weren't planning to settle down here. And frankly, I had to agree with them. When I tried selling to expats outside the school, the Work Permit requirement became another obstacle for us.

The fact that BUPA, a non-life insurance company, could sell expats the kind of insurance they wanted, and we couldn’t, really annoyed me. So I went out looking for another non-life insurance company that wasn't as well known to expats as BUPA, but had the ability to compete well against them. Fortunately, I was able to find just the insurance company I was looking for.
Life Insurance Medical Coverage
•All medical coverage must be attached to a life insurance policy in the form of a rider.
•Occupational class determines the premium for most of the riders.
•The hospital inpatient rider provides limited basic hospital coverage, similar to that provided by most basic hospital inpatient plans.
•The Daily hospital Income rider pays a fixed daily amount for every day in the hospital. It is unrelated to any hospital expenses.
•The Dread Disease rider pays additional money for being diagnosed with a "dreaded disease", such as cancer, etc.
•The Accidental Death and Dismemberment rider pays additional money for accidental death or loss of an arm, leg, finger, etc.
••There are also riders that cover riots, civil commotion and murder.
•Outpatient coverage for illness is not available.
•There is no Major Medical coverage for excess medical costs.
•Health coverage stops when life policy is paid up.
•Foreigners must have a valid Work Permit.
•Premiums can be paid annually, semi-annually, quarterly and monthly.

General (non-life insurance) Medical Coverage
•Sold as stand alone health insurance coverage only.
•Basic inpatient (IP) coverage is somewhat similar to life insurance IP coverage with Accidental Death and Dismemberment.
•Premium inpatient (IP) coverage includes Major Medical protection that kicks-in and pays 80% (BUPA) or 90% (THI/AXA) of the excess medical costs once the basic maximums have been exceeded.
•All plans include Accidental Death and Dismemberment coverage.
•All plans offer Optional outpatient (OP) coverage for illness.
•Daily Hospital Income coverage is available as a separate plan (AXA).
•Dread diseases are covered, but there is no additional benefit (THI/BUPA).
•A separate plan for additional Cancer coverage is available (AXA).
•Work Permits are NOT required.
•Premiums must be paid annually.

•Do you want to pay for both your life insurance and your medical insurance with one premium payment? (Life insurance)
•Do you want to break the payment into monthly or quarterly premiums? (life insurance)
•Do you want Major Medical coverage to kick-in when the limits of your basic coverage have been exceeded? (general insurance)
•Do you want outpatient (OP) coverage for illness? (general insurance)
•Do you want Daily Hospital Income coverage included? (life insurance)
•Do you want a separate Daily Hospital Income plan? (general insurance)
•Do you want additional Dread Disease coverage? (life insurance)
•Do you want a separate additional Cancer coverage plan? (general insurance)
•Do you want higher top-end coverage? (general insurance)
•Do you want more flexibility in your insurance program? (general insurance)
•You don’t have a work permit? (general insurance)

defender

Probably rambling a bit, bear with me!

I'm on the brink of leaving my job which had free AIA cover for me. The Mrs has 30baht thing and to be honest she's never been sick as long as I've known her. I have a baby, two months old who needs health insurance I reckon.

So I want something for all three of us. Thing is I have no idea what standard of hospital cover I need, or how much per night I should go for. I never get sick either so I'm not bothered about outpatient care for me, but I reckon it sounds like a good idea for the baby, just in case. How does that work? Is there a limit per visit like with my AIA thing?

Hospitals - I don't knw, I've been to several. Just lately we've been taking the little one to Sukhumvit Hospital near Ekkamai for her vaccines 'cos it's quite close and they are nice there and they don't seem to get very busy. Is it any good, relatively I mean? If so could I use my insurance there?

I've looked at the healthy wealthy thing and that looks OK. Do they do a family package? Is there any difference between the levels, other than the daily room rate? Would my baby's vaccinations be covered?

Think that's everything Thanks in advance.

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Excuse me for not taking this seriously .....

tonyd

Good questions, defender. Thanks for writing.
One of the most important things one needs to consider when purchasing adequate medical coverage in Thailand is what it costs to receive good quality medical care here.

My Bench Mark in that regard is Bumrungrad International Hospital. There are other highly rated hospitals in Thailand, but Bumrungrad ranks well among the best of them. And, very importantly, they seem to be more reasonably priced. Their charge for a private room is 5,030 baht per day for Room and Board and Nursing Care. In addition, they also offer a 4 bed room for 2,070 baht per day. and a 2 bed room for 2,860 baht per day. They are the only "5-Star" hospital in Thailand, I am aware of, that offers these lower cost room options.

The hospital you asked about, Sukumvit Hospital, is a small hospital that caters mainly to Thais. They seem like a good hospital, though. Their Daily Room and Board Rate is about 2,800 baht per day.

My own personal opinion is that you should plan on using a hospital near your home that you feel particularly comfortable with. But, also be prepared to upgrade to better facilities should the need arise. Bumrungrad seems to be the most cost-effective option in that regard.

Both are THI member hospitals. All you have to do to be admitted is show your THI card. But keep in mind that you can also use any hospital or clinic in Thailand, even a low cost government facility. If you use a non-member hospital or clinic, though, be prepared to pay the bill yourself and then get reimbursed by the insurance company later.

Yes, there is a limit per visit for Outpatient care for sickness. Outpatient care for accidents is included with the Inpatient coverage. Keep in mind that Outpatient care for illness jumps the premium up considerably, particularly for a young child.

My suggestion is that you absorb the actual cost of Outpatient care for illness yourself. There are many clinics that are run by off-duty hospital doctors that provide good medical care for a much lower cost than a hospital. Medicines can be purchased from a local pharmacy cheaper than through a hospital, also.

After visiting a clinic doctor, if your child still isn't better, take her to the hospital and see if you can get the doctor to admit her for observation and care. They often will do that for you. And, the insurance company will pay for her treatment.

Unfortunately, they don't offer a family package. Yes, there is very definitely a big difference in overall coverage with every increase of the Daily Room and Board Rate chosen. For example, WH2000 provides 500,000 baht of total protection; WH3000 provides 800,000 baht of protection; WH4000 provides 1,000,000 of protection and WH6000 provides 1,500,000 of protection. One of the features I like about the WH plans is that, while they provide basic Inpatient coverage like most hospital insurance plans, they also include Major Medical coverage to give you greater high-end protection. No, your baby's routine vaccinations would not be covered.

The inpatient care and the emergency accident care provided by Sukumvit Hospital should be quite adequate for most of your child's anticipated needs. Check with the hospital to find out how much inpatient hospital care should cost for her.

mrsquirrel

Tony

The missus is pissed of with forking out 40k a year for her AIA insurance and has decided that it would be better for her to save until she is 60 rather than the policy she ahs.

She now needs health cover.

Who should she go with?

I think she is covered by my social insurance but we would like better cover.

My BUPA runs out in a few months is there any policies that we can take out together?

Do you know anything about the company that is advertising in the BKK post about Expat cover at Thailand prices? IAG or something they are called.

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tonyd

If I understand right, your missus has a life insurance plan with health insurance riders on it. In that case, I see no problem with her dropping the health insurance riders and replacing them with stand-alone coverage. That is, unless she has had health problems recently.

What troubles me, though, is her dropping the life insurance coverage. In doing so, she could be throwing away money. Since I don't know anything about her particular life insurance plan, I can only generalize about the result if she cancels it.

Life insurance builds up cash value over the years. The first few years much of the premium goes to pay expenses, such as the agent's commission. But over the years the cash build up begins to exceed the premium payments. So, dropping a policy when it's finally starting to pay off can be a bad idea. Also, cash build up in an insurance policy is not taxed, while bank savings are. In addition, life insurance premiums are tax deductible, up to 50,000 baht a year.

In my opinion, Thai Health Insurance offers the best health insurance value in Thailand. But AXA Thailand also offers good value. AXA's premiums are slightly lower, but so is their top-end coverage. They also offer a 5% discount if 2 family members sign up together. Both coverages are available from E-InsureThailand.
Yes, I do. "Expat insurance" is just another name for "international insurance." The international health insurance company they represent is InterGlobal insurance. They have converted the international prices to Thai baht. But the premiums are still considerably higher than those of any local company. But then, so is the coverage. For expats willing to pay for it, this type of coverage satisfies a need that can't be satisfied by local coverage. That's why E-InsureThailand also offers a variety of international health insurance plans, as well as a good selection of local insurance plans. For most of us, though, local insurance coverage should be more than adequate for our needs and much more cost-effective.

Bangkok Phil

Tony, we get letters from people coming to live in Thailand who want to be covered by health insurance while they are here. What is the best, most cost-effective way for them to do this? Should they purchase travel insurance in their own country first and then purchase the lower cost local coverage after they get here?

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The wheels on my house go round and round. Round and round. Round and round.

tonyd

Phil, if what they are concerned about is having good quality medical coverage while they are living in Thailand, there is no reason for them to purchase travel insurance before coming here. The simplest, most cost-effective way for them to provide the coverage they need is to purchase the insurance in Thailand before they get here. Then, they can have their coverage start on the day they are scheduled to arrive here.

E-InsureThailand has assisted many expats in this regard. It is a very simple process that can be handled by e-mail or by airmail. Payment can be made by credit card. Those wanting this coverage should allow about a month for processing, but E-Insure can get the coverage for them almost instantly, if necessary, if they e-mail their application. In addition to completing and signing a very simple health insurance application, a photocopy of the I.D. portion of their passport is also required.

Bangkok Phil

Tony, if someone has a serious medical problem and is receiving treatment for it, can that person buy medical insurance? If so, will the insurance company cover the treatment costs?

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The wheels on my house go round and round. Round and round. Round and round.

tonyd

Yes, normally they can, Phil. But, the condition they are being treated for won't be covered. This is true with any private insurance company anywhere in the world.

A "pre-existing condition" that requires on-going treatment is a "guaranteed expense" to an insurance company. The only way they could afford to cover "guaranteed expenses" is by passing the cost on to the rest of their insureds in the form of higher premiums. When an insurance company is forced to do this, its insurance plans become less competitively priced against those of its competition to such a degree that only "high risk" insureds are willing to pay the premiums.

Insurance plans that do cover pre-existing conditions are normally government sponsored social-medicine schemes. In America, where "socialized-medicine" is a bad word, they have HIPPA and COBRA to provide coverage to people with health problems who can't get coverage elsewhere. Coverage under COBRA, though, is extremely costly.

Some large corporations also provide employees with "guaranteed acceptance" group insurance coverage that doesn't exclude pre-existing conditions of any sort. The cost provides a large tax write-off for the company.

Another important question is:
What does an insurance company do about pre-existing conditions the insured didn't tell them about, or the insured actually didn't know about, but, the company discovers after the policy gets issued?

a) If the insured lied, and the company learns that the insured lied, the coverage will be canceled and all claims will be refused - including even the legitimate claims.
b) If the insured seeks treatment for a pre-existing condition the insured was most likely unaware of, the condition wont be covered, but the coverage will continue.

That said, the good news is that the insurance companies are faced with a time-limit for excluding pre-existing conditions that haven't required treatment while the insured has had the insurance.

If someone buys a policy from a Thai-based insurance company, pre-existing conditions that have not received treatment during the past 12 months of coverage can no longer be excluded.

For coverage bought through a Western-based, or International, insurance company, the same is true, after 24 month period of coverage.

One of the biggest fears insurance companies have to face with each insurance application is that the applicant is taking out the insurance policy to cover a major medical expense that the applicant is expecting to incure soon and wants pass the expense on to the insurance company. The time exclusion is intended to make that less likely to happen.

Citan

Hey mate,
Norng Citan and I was wondering...
What could one do about Dental Insurance in Thai? I would really like to get my teeth fixed and get some nice braces and whatnot put in when I go back, but I do not think dental insurance would be do-able, due to lack of citisenship and such. Any ideas?
Yours,
Norng Citan

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Yours,
Norng Citan

tonyd

Hey Norng Citan,
Thai based insurance companies don't offer dental insurance. You would have to go to an international health insurance company to get dental coverage. As for the rest of your question, the answer can be found in the preceding thread above yours.

Bangkok Phil

Tony, some reasonably healthy people are being rejected for health insurance coverage strictly because of their age. One group insurer recently refused to cover a teacher because she was age 58. Some insurance companies won't sell individual health insurance coverage to people over the age of 60. What other options are there for these people?

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The wheels on my house go round and round. Round and round. Round and round.