Shit I'm agreeing with Louis....time for an edit
For that matter what's wrong with clocking in, when the idea of signing in is to confirm you are present at the school and at what time. I guess the issue for the schools have is that despite wanting to know the actual time the teacher gets to school is that the teacher will invariably bullshit and write what it thinks the school wants to hear, however late they arrive. When an honour system is abused so much as it is in every Thai school I've ever worked at it would seem that ANY employer wanting a more accurate record would appear sensible to implement a system as described above.
Just why exactly are posters on here suggesting it's demeaning for employers to want to see how punctual it's employees are?
LDMA - Ajarn Forum Admin
Don't get me wrong - I don't want a 'serious' board but I'd like posts to be either genuinely amusing, informative and/ or thought provoking.
Ian McNamara - July 2000
A clash with the management will not serve the purpose of your inner peace and therefore will deprive you from happiness. Thai Language School DOS, 2009
Only the bad person say the bad thing about the good thing.
Anon. Thai DOS
Shit I'm agreeing with Louis....time for an edit
Riddle me this brother can you handle it
Your style to my style you can't hold a candle to it
Equinox symmetry and the balance is right
Smokin' and drinkin' on a Tuesday night
It's not how you play the game it's how you win it
I cheat and steal and sin and I'm a cynic
It's the difference between being a professional and not being one.
It's the difference between being treated like a professional and not being treated like one.
If you want to be treated like an unemployable uneducated moron because that's what you were in the west then that's up to you; by all means sign in and out like a blue collar worker.
Good and competent management would resolve any signing in issues. School management; always reactive and never proactive in solving problems; always happy to blame others for their own mistakes. They deserve the "teachers" they get.
Odi et amo. Quare id faciam, fortasse requiris? Nescio, sed fieri sentio et excrucior.
I personally resent having to sign in and out because I'm a decent chap who has always turned up on time.
I don't see the Thai teachers signing shit.
"Changes and progress very rarely are gifts from above. They come out of struggles from below."
Halt mate good companies and jobs in the West make you clock/sign in....not just factories anymore I'm afraid.....things have changed (at least in the UK)! We don't have blue collar there do we???
Ken, when was the last time you worked in the west?
I worked in London in the last 4 years, never signed in or out of anywhere.
I resent signing in but then again I don't work for a Thai school and never will if I have to sign in and out.
Last year they installed the fingerprint system, this year it's back to the paper system as the new program is busted, again. I have never signed out on the paper system, and I've never been asked to. Goes to show how important that bit of paper is.
get some Hairy Lemon in ya
I would suggest it goes to the professionalism, or rather the lack thereof, with which Thai institutions treat their staff. It serves to reinforce the master-serf mentality which generally obtains in all sectors of the Thai workplace. This is not the way universities (for example) in other parts of the world operate, and I think you will find that most professional academics would bitterly resent being treated like blue-collar factory workers. Of course, this does not bother the Thai administrators one iota. Yet another reason why Thai tertiary establishments have such a dismal representation in the international league tables. The capital expended on installing expensive 'finger scanning' equipment would be far better utilized in trying to raise the mostly abysmal pedagogical standards of the Thai education system, in my view.Originally Posted by kenkannif
I have no desire whatever to work for employers which demonstrate such a blatant lack of trust in their employees, and the fact that they believe such systems are necessary is an indictment of their own recruitment policies.
I have never heard of any school at any level in any Western country, which subjects its teachers to the degrading ritual of either clocking in or forcing them to submit to fingerprint scans. For one thing, the unions simply would not stand for it. For another, it would make recruitment into a profession which already has difficulty in attracting quality applicants almost impossible. And the education authorities and administrators know it.Originally Posted by kenkannif
Got me there mate.....well over 6 years ago now.Originally Posted by haltest
Fair enough....my mistake I honestly thought it was quite commonplace....now if I had some friends to ask.I worked in London in the last 4 years, never signed in or out of anywhere.
I'm not overly keen on it myself to be honest, but I can understand why we're asked to do it....but the Thai staff where I am do it as well to be fair (and they get hammered if they're late, whereas the Western staff don't).I resent signing in but then again I don't work for a Thai school and never will if I have to sign in and out.
Posted after 2 minutes:
Wasn't referring to schools...sorry if I wasn't clear.Originally Posted by Rumpole
Signing in-out can be useful if for folks who work flexi-time, in that it allows one to show that you've 'done the time' according to the contract. For this concept, the exact start/end-time is not important. This system seems to popular in Sweden, for instance.
The problem arises when administrators try to use the register as a legalistic tool to monitor the exact time of arrival & departure. This concept only makes sense in factory & production-line situations - or where strict co-ordinated schedules need to be synchronised.
The use of a time-recording system - say a computer swipe-card - allows information to be sent to say the salaries section to confirm your agreed contractual presence at the place of employment. In that sense, the exact in/out times are of little importance. (I would not submit to a finger-print scan. This is a violation of one's privacy, as you can bet that your information would be abused by a Thai administrator if he were offered money. This is over-the-top.)
It's all down to what the end-goal of the system is.
For some fiercely-independent cultures, time-monitoring can be seen as a threat. The Thais do seem to like using a recording system. I see our security fellow scribbling something in a book every time & enter & leave the premises... be nice if they paid me a bonus for the extra hours I've given them...
Agree on the money spent ting....still at least to me it's not a biggie and I always thought a true professional would do as their employer asked if it was reasonable...and again at least to me (but then I'm low class scum) it's quite reasonable if not overly good.Originally Posted by Rumpole
So if you had a job paying 80K a month but you had to sign in you'd Jack it for a 60K a month job where you didn't???
Its all really up to you. If you dont like to sign in dont take the job. I find most of the signing is merely a formality at least at the uni level. I can live with it.
But not being able to buy beer at 4pm now that is a problem.
Too long in Exile, too long not singing my song.
Too long like a rolling stone, Too long in exile
Too long in Exile, baby you just arent my friend.
Too long in Exile my friend, Baby you can never go home again.
Van the Man 1993
I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on this. I don't happen to think it is at all reasonable. It is mostly an exercise in intimidation and power tripping - one of the very few areas in which Thai employers excel.Originally Posted by kenkannif
Rather a moot point, since I can get substantially more than Bht80K a month outside Thailand, without ever having to 'sign in' for it.Originally Posted by kenkannif