A Native Speakers EFL Teachers' Association - Page 3 - Ajarn Forum

torbek · 20th November 2006, 14:00

OK.

My 'vision' (please don't think 'agenda', as tempted as you may be! I've written this on the fly

) would be a body of at least 500 - 1,000 teachers and a representative committee who gain a seat at the table to present 'consensus ' views whenever the MoE or other government departments have 'think tank' or 'brain-storming sessions' that would ultimately impact on those teachers. ie. input at higher level.

That body would begin to influence how employers act through creation of 'standard contracts' (with variables), professional development, non-militant lobbying, or possibly even mediation in teacher-employer disputes.

How successful they are in either depends on how much credibility and respects they generate...ie. how professional they ae perceived.

The association would need to demonstrate they are committed to an overall improvement in EFL education in Thailand, not just serving their own interests. Toward that end they would need to be seen to be attempting self-regulation, such as codes of conduct and scaled membership based on qualification/experience ...which, in turn, may minimise unnecessary intervention by government departments.

Ultimately, improve the reputation and working environment of EFL teachers here...

...which may one day translate to better working conditions and better educational outcomes.

What goals would you like to see?

Unwell · 20th November 2006, 14:17

(i really don't want to be an arsehole but you seem intent, torbers old boy, on applying 'first world' logic, standards, accountability and transparency in what is, essentially, a bloody jungle!

)

Dauber · 20th November 2006, 14:47

Torbek,
You've got a good idea needing a lot of water to float. I for one support you on this issue

.

To get it moving there's got to be a need and support. You and I could push it along, maybe a few others might join in, but there'll be quite a crowd on the sidelines, beer cans in hand yahooing and throwing shit, the wankers. When the boat's afloat the'll all want a free ride and boast after, that they were in on it in the beginning.

These tall poppy shooters are allways around, they haven't got an original idea between them to wipe their arses with. I know that this is not the first time that this idea has been aired, and the concept's been shot down in flames by suck-arses before, but that's what those people are and will allways remain, too insecure to try, bleating on about others who get a better deal than they have.

There is a teachers association in Thailand and a forum for EFL teachers would serve a current and obvious obvious need, the lack of clear guidlines in this field is certainly a problem for all concerned.

I give you all my support on the issue. Please PM me if you wish.

-----
PS
Don't forget the competition

Cyrille · 20th November 2006, 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unwell

(i really don't want to be an arsehole but you seem intent, torbers old boy, on applying 'first world' logic, standards, accountability and transparency in what is, essentially, a bloody jungle!

)

But where it's the white men who are mostly the savages!

torbek · 20th November 2006, 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dauber

I give you all my support on the issue. Please PM me if you wish.

I will.

We probably need up to half a dozen reasonably interested people to at least undertake the initial groundwork/research, so I'll let this run it's course for a couple of days to see what emerges.

Hell, if we only manage to get some preliminary groundwork done before we throw our hands up in despair, it is a start....

russellsimpson · 20th November 2006, 15:36

I think it's doable.

Hell, anything's doable if a few people set their minds to it.

The first problem I foresee is that qualified degreed teachers may not see it in their best interest to belong to an organization that also represents the Khao Sarn diploma types.

That would be a huge, huge hurdle to jump.

This couldn't be a voluntary thing. Someone would have to be paid to do the initial legwork and they would need an assistant, at least one.

Then a whole lot of Page Ranking by someone skilled in kissing Thai Bureacratic ass.

It's doable. Probably take four years to get to a point of having any credibility though. And one hell of a lot of hard work. You'll need someone with grat organizational and communications skills who is willing to work for peanuts for an organization that may or may not survive.

I'd participate but I don't plan on spending the next four years teaching here.

But for those who are planning on staying, hell...give it a go.

torbek · 20th November 2006, 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellsimpson

I think it's doable.

Hell, anything's doable if a few people set their minds to it.

The first problem I foresee is that qualified degreed teachers may not see it in their best interest to belong to an organization that also represents the Khao Sarn diploma types.

That would be a huge, huge hurdle to jump.

I was thinking something like "full memberships" to those holding TLs...the fully qualified brigade would have to accept that if, in the new framework, a person is granted a TL without an education degree, they are, in Thailand at least and for the purposes of this association, peers.

Then "associate memberships" for those wishing to source information or undergoing the process of gaining a TL. They could still benefit from, and contribute to, the association.

Quote:

It's doable. Probably take four years to get to a point of having any credibility though. And one hell of a lot of hard work. You'll need someone with grat organizational and communications skills who is willing to work for peanuts for an organization that may or may not survive.

I'd participate but I don't plan on spending the next four years teaching here.

But for those who are planning on staying, hell...give it a go.

But it is a progression. Might be four years away from being a fully recognised and credible organisation...but maybe only one year from starting to make a tangible impact.

Agree about the Page Ranking stuff, though..

DunceCap · 20th November 2006, 15:50

Unwell stated it quite clear, this is the jungle.
--------------------------------------------

Thailand is under martial law and you are suggesting that a large group of angry teachers get together and tell the MOE that they can go screw themselves unless they make changes. Can you here the gun fire?

3rd most murders in the world.
military coups, rampant corruption, parents openly buy grades, seats in classrooms, positions on teams. Schools constantly profiting from ripping off parents that don't know any better. A police force that is corrupt and trigger happy. An entire school system that doesn't know what the right and left hands are doing or even knows that it has legs.

the there is the foreign teacher side and all the bad stuff there.
A TEFL industry that issues certificates of such various levels and qualities and quantities. Teachers are a large aggregate.
(1)The professionals....this group teaches at international schools and were teachers back in their respective countries. Maybe 2% of this group would be interested in any type of membership.
(2)The degree in education and a TEFL/TESOL cert. Most of these people
---------------------------------------------

sorry, leaving work and will finish this when i get home......off hours with a beer!!!!

Cyrille · 20th November 2006, 15:50

Get to it then, tobs!

-----
Yeah dunce, I'll be interested to know how I'm not a professional because I don't teach at an international school.

Man, the deference some feel towards people who spent 7 months on a course maybe 20 years ago.....................

-----
Incidentally, I'd estimate about 15 - 20% of International school teachers in Thailand have never had a teaching job in their home country.

anon · 20th November 2006, 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by DunceCap

Thailand is under martial law

something worth keeping in mind.

jonny danger · 20th November 2006, 16:42

Another thing to keep in mind is that very few Thailand teachers even read this forum or any other. You might get more response by pinning up a notice at Soi Cowboy.

DunceCap · 20th November 2006, 17:02

(2)the degree in education + TEFL cert....this group has some upper positions at establishments, and outside of the internationals schools, this group probably has the most salary barganing power.

(3) the degree (masters, Bsc, Ba) + TEFL ......by far the largest group and teach at all levels and in all types of institutions.

(4) TEFL/TESOL and teach at language schools some at government schools but maybe not many.
-------------------------
Cyrille, the professional designation was simply to show the seperation of Teachers who were licensed in their home country to teach and the rest of the bunch who are teaching here. (It was not a statement that the rest are not teachers with professional standards)

-------------------------
getting a movement going that is united for the most part, would be one hell of an undertaking. And would take a considerable amount of time. Maybe after five years of planning and meetings it might start to look like something.

But, as Torbek said, it needs vision and ability. For any movement to really have the ability to affect change, it would need to be recognized by the Thai government---that IMHO will never happen---at least during the next ten years.

--------

Unwell · 20th November 2006, 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrille

But where it's the white men who are mostly the savages!

a bit of both i think to be honest...

i've witnessed/experienced plenty of terrible behaviour from schools and agencies, i've witnessed/experienced plenty of terrible behaviour from foreign 'teachers'. both as bad as each other.

but that's what happens when you have an education policy/industry that is not taken seriously, and that's the real bridge to cross here, many other problems would then clear themselves up.

education is not taken seriously in thailand. until it is, conditions for any kind of teacher won't be improved.

(and unfortunately, with the best will in the world, an entire cultural/political/social shift is impossible for any foreign interest groups to achieve. and countless domestic ones...

)

watdog · 20th November 2006, 17:39

a whole new paradigim, eh unwell. tough not to agree. but i like torbeks energy. his mind is still working while i have to turn mine off in spurts just to stay sane in this morass.