A Native Speakers EFL Teachers' Association - Ajarn Forum

torbek · 20th November 2006, 08:58

Like many here, I've always rated such a think and impossible and unworkable. The Thais wont like it - both government and school administrations. The Teachers have too much self interest to worry about the plight of others - who's going to strike on behalf of someone they have never met who is supposedly poorly treated somewhere in the boonies?

But the recent thread on Bangkok Fights Back, or whatever, suggests there is perhaps a need for one. It is unrealsitic to think this forum, or ajarn.com, could fulfil a representative role given their commercial nature.

The new developments in teacher licencing and the fact that there seem to be so many teachers here who, contrary to their initial intentions, stay teaching in Thailand for many years also suggests a need to me.

I am not talking about a militant union. I am not talking about about a confrontational body.

In fact, in the initial stages I would I envisage it as little more than (a) a register of native speaking EFL teachers in Thailand that is (b) recognised as an interest party by government departments such as MoE, Labour, and Immigration to (c) be a conduit of direct information to members.

As time passes and membership numbers grow, I would envisage it would seek a participatory role in matters where these departments do seek input from external bodies. At that point, our interests can be promoted in a non-confrontational manner in the appropriate forum.

But that is as far as it goes. I do not believe setting standard contractual conditions is feasible or desireable - although some basic ones may be so. I also don't see it as using any power it may ultimately derive to aggressively defend members - ie. no strike action or anything like that.

To progress such an idea, I think the following would have to occur:-

1. Determine interest level. If there is no critical mass, it will not work.
2. Check legality of such a body. Is it legal? Should it need to be registered.
3. Hold an initial meeting to develop some sort of broad charter.
4. Present the association to the government departments so it is not seen as a threat.
5. Second meeting to get things underway.

Any thoughts?

Yes, I know it will take a bit of work and face a few obstacles, so if you do want to throw up negatives - do us a favour and offer suggestions to deal with the negatives as well. Remember, the iniial intention is more about communication of accurate information to members rather than a crusade for right.

jonny danger · 20th November 2006, 09:10

Why not make a pact among yourselves there in the staffroom to stick together?

torbek · 20th November 2006, 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonny danger

Why not make a pact among yourselves there in the staffroom to stick together?

I don't have a staffroom.

And this is not about "sticking together"...

Why would I want to "stick together" with someone I might think is a complete prat?

I believe that is why suggestions like mine have gained so little momentum in the past. People are of the view it would be like a trade union.

I'm trying a slightly different perspective. There are, what, over 5,000? over 10,000? native speaking EFL teachers in Thailand.

That's a lot of people employed in a "profession" to have no representative body.

Whenever the government departments and the like seek input from external parties, where do they get the farangs who express the "farang perspective"? And who are these farangs that are not accountable to anyone for expressing these "perspectives"?

Not a militant union. Just a representative body to get a seat at the table for a significant group of stakeholder and to disseminate accurate (as possible) information to members.

Unwell · 20th November 2006, 09:37

i think the only way to prove something would be viuable would be for you to try and get it working torbers.

until then, i do not have a single ounce of belief that it could possibly be implemented. and i don't mean that in any way negatively, i got respect for you, you're a smart cat, but realistically.

Quote:

Originally Posted by torbek

...where do they get the farangs who express the "farang perspective"?

seems they got phil for the meeting described in the 'bangkok fights back' thread. i'm interested as to how and why...

by the way, if it ever could get off the ground, count me out. bearing in mind the amount of weirdos, psychos, half-wits, sex-pests, wackjobs and losers i've met teaching here i'd be more comfortable, and better off i think, going it alone.

torbek · 20th November 2006, 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unwell

i think the only way to prove something would be viuable would be for you to try and get it working torbers.

Wasn't necessarily suggesting it be me...

Quote:

by the way, if it ever could get off the ground, count me out. bearing in mind the amount of weirdos, psychos, half-wits, sex-pests, wackjobs and losers i've met teaching here i'd be more comfortable, and better off i think, going it alone.

That's actually been my view for the last three years. And to a large degree I still think that.

It's just I've decided to commit here for a few more years and the thought of over 5,000 teachers having no direct representation got me thinking...

Besides...the psychos, half-wits, sex-pests, wackjobs and losers would probably be unlikely to bother joining an association.

The wierdos will, though...

soijetcornergirl · 20th November 2006, 10:00

What is the "farang perspective"?

Given some of your responses to what I have written, I would guess we are two farangs with different perspectives when it comes to a lot of what is going on.

This being the case, whose perspective rises to the top?

While the theory of such an organization is good, I don't honestly see how it would play out in practical terms or how it would represent different teacher perspectives and not just certain ones.

mad_dog · 20th November 2006, 10:07

" bearing in mind the amount of weirdos, psychos, half-wits, sex-pests, wackjobs and losers i've met teaching here i'd be more comfortable, and better off i think, going it alone"

That's true of Bangkok but reckon you get a better class of people working out in the provinces. There are 12 foreign teachers at my school and only three of them are men and only one of them is over 30. So beer swilling, deranged loons aren't the only ones teaching. (I represent the beer swillers with a solemn dignity and professionalism)

torbek · 20th November 2006, 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by soijetcornergirl

What is the "farang perspective"?

Given some of your responses to what I have written, I would guess we are two farangs with different perspectives when it comes to a lot of what is going on.

This being the case, whose perspective rises to the top?

Yes, an association does require the oft impossible task of presenting a consensus view. Hence why it is best to stick to an information comunication role initially.

But the very diversity of opinion can be a positive.

Quote:

While the theory of such an organization is good, I don't honestly see how it would play out in practical terms or how it would represent different teacher perspectives and not just certain ones.

And yet every body of teachers in virtually every country in the world somehow manage it...

Anyway...I have my answers already and they are much as expected. Perhaps I should have created a new nick to start this poll, but then again...

defender · 20th November 2006, 10:11

Well, I put down for a quite interested. I would be if were organised, up and running and I could see some benefit.

I would not be willing to invest any time or effort on the other hand - mainly for reasons mentioned by unwell! Good luck and 'nuff respeck to anyone who gives it a go though - certainly couldn't do any harm IMO!

mad_dog · 20th November 2006, 10:18

Didn't ajarnfarang have a similar idea?

defender · 20th November 2006, 10:25

Yeah, but he's a headcase - I thought he was a nice guy when I met him mind!

I never got the impression from ajarnfarang that he was the kind of guy who'd see it through - just someone who'd make a lot of noise and then get frustrated. Absolutely no offense intended, he did seem like a genuinely nice guy - even if he was a wannabe scouser!

Somehow, Torbek seems more settled and dedicated.

mad_dog · 20th November 2006, 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by defender

Somehow, Torbek seems more settled and dedicated.

The occasional online mental breakdown and deleting fenzy aside.... Seriously though, Torbek, I think it is a good idea. Foreign teachers should have somekind of official representation in Thailand. However any form of "union" would only gain legitimacy if it was recognised by the Thai government as representing foreign teachers and had a large number of members. This presents two challenges: (1) How to get the Thais to acknowledge you in the first place and (2) Getting the flotsam and jetsam that makes up the foreign EFL community to join the body and pay somekind of membership dues.

torbek · 20th November 2006, 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by mad_dog

The occasional online mental breakdown and deleting fenzy aside....

That only happened once!!!

Damn...I think that is pretty good being on this forum for over three years and having access to a delete button!

(Although if LDMA had ever given me nack the access, I couldn't say for sure it wouldn't happen again!

)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mad_dog

(1) How to get the Thais to acknowledge you in the first place and (2) Getting the flotsam and jetsam that makes up the foreign EFL community to join the body and pay somekind of membership dues.

That's the key, isn't it? Not to mention they are a bit "chicken and egg".

And it would take the efforts of quite a few people to achieve that...from all backgrounds.

Frodo Haggins · 20th November 2006, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by torbek

Wasn't necessarily suggesting it be me...

No, people who make these threads never do....

jonny danger · 20th November 2006, 11:16

As far as I know there are no unions in Thailand. Call it what you may, union is the word for it.
So should Thailand's first union be thought up, planned out by farang because they speak proper English and sport a higher level of education? Get a grip. All these scum teachers, they seem to be commonplace in Bangkok, eh? If you don't like them why not leave, kill them, ignore them? Looks to me like another anal crusade to remove the infidels from our soil .. the infidels being those who haven't your concept of cleanliness.