ajarn farang

I don't hate Thai people, I am very fond of Thai people. I just detest certain elements of Thai culture/ society.

I don't expect the Thais to move out of their own country; I simply believe that we are entitled to a fairer deal and resent being lied to/ treated with a general lack of consideration.

I'm leaving for Japan next week.

Dr dude

Dewa mata, don't let the door hit you on the backside on your way out.

ajarn farang

i'll probably come back in about 10 years when i will work for myself and won't have to put up with their shit.

and yes i am quite sensitive about this issue. who is going to look after our interests if we don't? the thais? don't me laugh/ cry.

some people choose to agree with the thais. some people do their bidding to get on. in both cases, this weakens our hand and strengthens theirs.
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"Dewa mata, don't let the door hit you on the backside on your way out."

touching.

Dr dude

us and them?

Seems you have some kind of serious persecution complex, try to leave that behind before arriving in Japan, word of experience, Japanese are not as easy-going as the Thais and are much less likely to treat you special, like you think you should be treated. In Thailand you probably get paid more than a real professor, in Japan, less than half (assuming you are more of less an ESL teacher, if you are an Academic of course this does not apply).

Good Luck, my guess is you are going to need it

ajarn farang

anybody going to japan needs luck so thanks. i care about you too.

i don't see it as us and them. i usually go the extra mile to get along with thai colleagues because at the end of the day, i am on their side (unfortunately, management doesn't generally see further than the end of its nose though and translates everything into dollars and cents).

in my last job i was instrumental in introducing a system of free language training for administrative staff as an extra career incentive; the admin staff have pretty decent thai degrees in most cases but are mostly treated like minions, carrying out only mindless tasks. the thais only understand control/ duty; they cannot comprehend the notion of rights as we understand it.
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don't get me wrong, in my own experience, i have worked with thais who were pretty much evil but some who were the salt of the earth; it's for those thais as well as for our own sake's that i would like to see things improve.

we can't do a good job without proper support, etc.
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we cannot compare our salaries to theirs for a number of reasons and i think we have established that, no? plus the fact that most of us do not have the opportunity to graft as they do.

i don't think they would be qeueing up for a pay cut to help us out if the shoe were on the other foot. a lot of the thais i have spoken to cannot fathom why we are even here in the first place, considering the conditions.
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right. sorry. i'll get back to packing my bags now.

MikeS

I think its true we are in a different position and have a different range of options, some better, some worse, than the Thais. After all, we're NOT Thai, are we?
I doubt if you'll find life better in Japan. You'll make more money because the yen is worth more, but living costs are also higher. Its horses for courses.
There are good and bad bosses everywhere.
Its up to us to make the best of the situation (stating the bleeding obvious).
I'm convinced we take our problems with us whereever we go and the real answer is not to blame someone else, but to deal with our problems ourselves.

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ajarn farang

that's a nice story. but tell me, does it have a happy ending?

i'm not going to compare thailand with japan, only to say that it is possible to make 50K GBP teaching at unis but you need a masters for that (money that is worth something back home).

there are good and bad bosses everywhere. however, i do not feel personally responsible for my bosses' actions when they scoff at the fact that they have gone through 14 teachers in 14 months and brag that in fact they have gone through "hundreds of teachers"; being lied to about appraisals and payrises at interview only to then be told once employed that any talk of money will result in instant dismissal; slyly changing clauses in contracts to include totally unacceptable conditions or to remove the clause referring to bonuses and then trying to dupe teachers to sign by only giving it to them at the very last minute while at the employment office and trying to rush them; telling you at interview that 50K is far too much to pay a farang, claiming poverty, paying others whatever they ask for without complaint and then bragging about how rich they are; talking to teachers as though they were children/ dogs, shouting at them and creating a climate of fear in the workplace; trying to video-record teachers against their will in order to determine who should be fired and who shouldn't.

of course, we are free to move on. but what about the next poor sucker who steps up. how about instead of just side-stepping the abuse and exploitation, we try to prevent it.
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anybody with a university degree teaching in bangkok deserves 50K b.

kempos

Can't agree more. My wife is making less because she is only 27, but as you said there is a lot of money at the end. Pension - IMO lots of foreigners forget about it. How much money do you need to save to have a decent life after you retire? 2000000, 3000000, or more? let's say you saved 3000000 then how much can you afford spending per month? you never know because you do not know how long you gonna live. IMO pension is one of the greatest benefits.

keegan I think that in the new scheme the handshake is a couple of million baht. this is what my wife told me yesterday.

Dr dude

aj

It is always the other guys fault, never our own.

If what you said was true, why did you go to work there in the first place?

ajarn farang

to try and sort it out. but it was too oppressive an atmosphere. and they never ever give you any praise for anything. the campus was also very remote so you end up going on the piss in the evening because it is so dull.

anyway, this is just one example. but i take your original point, even if it wound me up at the time, that nobody should be agreeing to the cack terms. but sadly there are a qeue of people only too willing to do it. so you have little to bargain with. because they don't really want quality so it is useless using that angle.

and some chaps, chaps who are a bit older, don't really want to move on. so they end up being downtrodden and taking endless amounts of crap. some of my work mates are treated pitifully and they kind of take it because they no longer have expectations. they put up with it and they fail to stand up to it.

like i said, we are not third worlders and we don't have to be treated as such. especially when the thais are surrounding themselves with the trappings of the first world.

my mate asked for a payrise which he was entitled to and deserved. the boss told him he should instead save money by eating only 25 baht plates of rice and by getting a roommate. and these fuckers are rolling in it.

this friend of mine has taught here in thailand for 15 years so where is his reward? they couldn't care less if we ended up in the gutter.

kidneystone

To be fair this complaint is quite false as you had been living next to the campus before you took the job!





As I recall you were one of two interviewed for the position you took!


Interesting take on things here, most of those older downtrodden chapies are either studying for or have completed their masters! Whilst you only talked about doing one.

Cyrille

You also said on another thread that 'I was sacked/resigned', Ajarn Forum. Seemed a bit odd - did the letters cross in the post or something?

Your comments surprise me, as I'd heard Mahidol was a pretty good gig.

Sorry you didn't get enough praise.
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50 k seems very generous if all you have is a degree. No experience or qualifications and you feel hard done by with less than 50k??

Dear oh dear. What's the minimum you 'deserve' in Tokyo, then? And who'll be to blame if you accept less?

cocosan

Sounds like a bit of a chip on the old shoulder, Ajarn Forum. How long you been here? 6 months. Wow. You got it all worked out. Us old guys who are so downtrodden and lack the motivation, sorry expectations, to keep going and end up taking all kinds of shit from everyone will just have to keep on going i suppose.
Yeah you are probably worth a shite load more than all of us.
What's that little thing called, experience.
Pay your dues bro.

Aaron70

All serious teachers dont just live in Bangkok. I earn way more than 20,000 and have a workpermit . Would not swap living in Utter Bumfukthai for the world.

I think if they cleared out some of the crap that floats around Bangkok pretending to be teachers, it would be great. I think we agree on that point.