watdog

isnt one of our 'qualifications', often anyway, a racial one? thais want 'real' entertainers. how about education light as means of describing the entertainment/education system in thai. they want visual aids of white english, in clean shirts and perpared to maintain the deception of giving a shit about learning. it would be easy, in my view, to overstate our importance. its about perception, sanook and money. an asian vaudeville.

ajarn farang

you obviously weren't studying in the right place. your answer also smacks of arrogance. if you are teaching little kids to say 'oranges' and 'apples' then perhaps you don't need a degree (but this is debatable). who is fit to determine whether or not you are learned enough to teach a someone else's child? You alone? That's where the degree comes in. Could you honestly claim that a person without a degree is fit to teach english on an undergraduate programme?

hhmmm.. 'yeah i could get a doctorate no worries, i just can't be bothered innit'.

people who formally educate others should be formerly educated themselves. it doesn't matter how good at teaching you think you might be. i certainly wouldn't pay an unqualified thai to teach me their language the same rate that i would pay a qualified teacher.

Posted after 5 minutes 29 seconds:

that's how it is, not how it's supposed to be. i have had some very good and very serious students over here. of course presentation is important but this is merely common sense - people will take you more seriously as a teacher if dress appropriately.

it depends entirely on where you are teaching and to whom. many of these language schools have a 'california wow' vibe about them (i.e. join/ hand over cash/ ta very much).

PeaceBlondie

ajarnfarang, Gipkik's argument that one needn't have a proper teaching degree applies to all tertiary education, including medical school. Except to teach education classes in the university's Kolledge of Edjucashun, no professor needs to be trained as a teacher, to teach uni students, except those who will teach teachers.

But at the end of the day (actually, it's already 8 p.m.), having those BA and MA or B.Ed. and M.Ed. things after one's name does mean something, in the field of education. So, you can't blame Thai educators who educate educators, for thinking that even farang educators should be educated.

Good luck on the self-improvement route. I kept thinking I was finished learning. Took the TEFL cert. after I was 60; was still taking business courses at age 55. My kid just finished his MBA, two months before age 38.

__________________
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Gipkik

Who are you to say which school is the right school and for who? If you care to search the web, you'll find many who censure schools such as Harvard and Oxford for a lack of intellectual rigor. It's all about prestige, but is that equivalent to mastering a discipline? There's more to your empty statement so you need to state it. And why arrogance? I made it clear that I'm an autodidact so a lot of what was taught, I already knew. And this is teaching that I'm talking about and not a university education, which I am very much a product of. Some wait for the professor to cast pearls and others go and find the pearls themselves. It's not that difficult these days. And frankly, what is wrong with arrogance? Does that make what I said any less true? If I was truly arrogant, then a lot of what I had written about the essential qualities of a good teacher simply can't apply to me. Are you in a position to make such an assessment or judgement?

I'm not surprised by your assumptions of what kind of person I am. But what I am has nothing to do with the veracity of my comments. And as to who is fit? That is a symptom of credentialism. There are much more effective ways to assess the quality of a teacher. A piece of paper is probably the least effective. To pass through a system, and master that system does not make you good at anything except mastering a system. What is required here are procedures that invite more sustained mentorship programs, observation schedules, apprenticeship programs. Further, previous teaching experience needs to be taken seriously. To pit someone with a Bachelor of Education and someone with, say, 5 years teaching experience, and immediately discount the former as unqualified is a symptom of a social malaise. And that you defend this just means you haven't thought about it deeply. I'm not arguing that things should change overnight, I'm merely indicating a normative dilemma.

I wouldn't. That person is probably an incompetent. But there are many exceptions. There are many teachers at undergraduate and postgraduate level that have less than acceptable credentials, but are teaching because they have published a lot of original and provocative work in that subject or field. Still, they had better have mastery of their subject matter, but that's not the same as saying that this hypothetical person can't be a good teacher. It is the teaching qualification that I take issue with and not whether the person is truly qualified to teach a subject. That's apples and oranges again. If you think that I am advocating self-teaching above and beyond a rigorous university-level education, then you are mistaken.

ajarn farang

yep, i've completely misunderstood your argument from the outset. I agree with you that the obsession with education degrees is unfounded. In my opinion a degree in english or modern languages is just as good, but then really any first degree is satisfactory. I agree too that a CELTA provides one with a suitable theoretical basis from which to begin teaching. If you read my much lauded hotseat interview you'll see that i'm very much on your side there.

education degree? no, not essential. university education? yes, if not now then eventually. this is my stance. that said, learning does not only take place within the classroom as you rightly point out.

it's saturday night and i was too lazy to get dressed until now so i really need to gert out of the house for a pork chop and bottle of chang. i will read through the rest of what you said and comment tomorrow no doubt.

Gipkik

I kinda thought you would agree with that, Ajarn Forum. This is one Ajarn.com's most talked about topics. Nothing new under the sun.

dongintheklong

I'm an underpaid babysitter.

Some of the very worst teachers I've seen have CELTAs and TEFLs. Pieces of paper mean nothing if you don't have a natural inclination towards teaching and an interest in developing your methods.

Most teachers here are anti-social psychopaths anyway, so what good is a CELTA to them, or their students?

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aging one

Not most I dont think but we sure do have too many of them.

__________________
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Too long like a rolling stone, Too long in exile
Too long in Exile, baby you just arent my friend.
Too long in Exile my friend, Baby you can never go home again.

ajarn farang

yes good point. you obviously need aptitude too. aptitude and experience. and humility. aptitude, experience and humility. did i leave anything out?

'tefl inadequates' i call them - well yeah tefl is not a difficult career to get into despite the fantastic rock star lifestyle that goes with it.

Posted after 2 minutes 27 seconds:

sociopath

• noun a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behaviour.

kenkannif

Yes, loads of things mate

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Equinox symmetry and the balance is right
Smokin' and drinkin' on a Tuesday night
It's not how you play the game it's how you win it
I cheat and steal and sin and I'm a cynic

Temasek

the CELTA/TEFL cert, is the initial foundation.

Professional development can really help a teacher improve.


Also, the willingness to read books on teaching, teaching methods, Language acquisition, and yes, theory.

One of the many books I read occasionally is Reflective Teaching.


As Adam (the poster) once said, it's easy to "just go on auto-pilot."

Often we think we are performing in a certain way in the classroom, but we really are not.


We should often reflect and have others give us insight, and yes, constructive criticism.

__________________
"Our nourishment of choice is Love. Our addiction of choice is technology. Our religion of choice is music. Our currency of choice is knowledge. Our politics of choice is none."

ajarn farang

keegan

degreed and tesoled.
still learning. and that is why i'm still here.

some of the best teachers/people i've ever met were those who could accept who they were. :chug:
and, if they felt they were'nt up to it(teaching), they got up and did something about it.

the uni. i usrd to work at up here was full of people who had all the answers, because they had an m.a.
they couldn't learn anymore because of that.

and had no empathy towards the plight of students, fellow teachers because of two letters.......... MA 's.
we teach in English and expect everyone to understand. and how many of us..... or.how many, can remember being a student???????
teaching over here is different to teaching in the "west".
for me, if someone can teach the matter, communicate the concept, they are teachers. this from an english major. oh my god.
the environment does count. especially if you are teaching away from silom rd. :chug:

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to be or not to be.......didn't know will was a tefler

ajarn farang

keegan-baby, i was wondering when you'd turn up, sit down i'll make you a cup of tea.

yeah, there is always the danger that one can get carried away with oneself as the all-powerful teacher figure. recently i've stepped back and thought 'oh shit! i reckon i've been doing that wrong for years'. very important to learn from other teachers and adapt and augment ones own techniques and style.

i used to get annoyed when the thais would say 'it has to be fun', because i thought that study was a serious thing not to be taken lightly. then i thought about it recently and concluded that there is no reason why it shouldn't be fun and if it were more fun how much more enthusiastic students would be. so i myself am now striving to add more fun to my lessons above all. :chug:

i want to get Dip Tefl/MA/ PGCE/ Phd but i know full well that these won't necessarily make me a better teacher than someone with a BA, they will make me more learned and this is something i love. why compare oneself to others anyway?