fishyfarang

....ask yourself this at the end of a class

"Have the students learnt something?"

if the answer is yes...you guessed it....you're a teacher.

__________________
if not now, then when?

hentaigaijin

that's a bit like saying 'if you play in the vauxhall conference or beezer home league, you're a footballer' - i'm sure that tart beckham of madrid would disagree.

sure call yourself a teacher. but understand that you are not the finished article. teaching is a brilliant and highly respected profession and not to be taken lightly. try to develop yourself and this will in turn benefit your students.

fishyfarang

I would never take teaching lightly and fully intend to continue to develop professionally. Teaching truly is a noble profession, vocation even and we are all teachers whether we choose to 'credentialise' ourselves or not.

I made a flippant comment and you are right to take issue with it however to beat someone down who wishes to impart some skill or knowledge to somoene who is a willing student is not really the way of a teacher, is it? I'm talking generally here.

From my experience of working in primary schools in the UK I can say that what a formal qualification system offers is probably more meaningful to those being taught rather than the teachers themselves (apart from obvious entry requirements to the teaching profession). Its the symbolism which carries weight for students. It surely motivates them and can create a little aspiration in a little soul unfamiliar with that notion. So on that level I agree that a teacher should be formally educated and qualified.

However....standards of education and potential opportunites arising out of these are pretty different here in Thailand to the UK. Meaning? Well....if you're CELTA qualified graduate or an online TEFLer then it's down to you to ethically examine your own achievements in the classroom....pragmatic approach maybe........

__________________
if not now, then when?

hentaigaijin

without a tefl certificate (i mean a proper one) you're not really a teacher because you're already cutting corners. you keep going after that. why stop? ok you may not need a masters but what is stopping you from getting a first degree? but it doesn't all just begin and end with quals either.

i agree with what you say but i think that gaining a degree gives you a sense of respect for knowledge and an appreciation of academic achievement. it also obviously gives you the opportunity to study a subject in real depth and engenders all manner of skills. you lead by example, don't ask your students to do what you yourself are not prepared to do.

i'm not beating anyone down. standards and opportunities are different as you rightly point out. however, we should aim to achieve the highest level possible (qualifications, training, results from our students, etc.). evaluation has several forms too: the students will obviously judge by the same standards that they have judged all their other teachers - do you meet (or even exceed) their expectations? or do you just try to shag them.

Posted after 5 minutes 57 seconds:

of course some will say you don't even need a tefl cert. and that you can learn on the job. this is arrogance in my view. i've met a few teachers who after 2 months or whatever really believe they are experts. but then they say things like 'professorship' when they mean a 'doctorate' and you realise that they are really just spastics who have gotten carried away with themselves. TIT.

Posted after 6 minutes 16 seconds:

as i've said before. i've got a mate who has no quals, no exp., remedial english and a two-bit high school diploma, and he is managing a private school where the kids pay big bucks. he doesn't want to do any training. he just wants to know how he can start making 90k per month in teaching. TITTER.

another mate has no quals, a few months exp. and he is now working for one of the leading universities in thailand. and they know too.

and if my aunty had a cock, she'd be my uncle.

fishyfarang

I in fact agree with every word of what you say and deeply regret that particularly vulgar and meaningless statement I made earlier....can I take it back????

you are clearly right in arguing for a deep respect for the education system and a credentials system in general and have always thought so. I think I was just feeling confrontational.

People like your friend and other so-called teachers who really are in it for sex or money clearly make a mockery of education - I have come across those types and they are truly disgusting.

I have a BA and real live CELTA however I still feel pretty unqualified to lead youngsters in bettering themselves through any kind of learning not just EFL. I plan to return home someday and take advantage of the might pgce and all it has to offer. And even then maybe I still won't feel that am qualified to 'teach', although we all teach by example willingly or unwillingly....

I bow down to you. You are right.

Please don't quote me again........

__________________
if not now, then when?

hentaigaijin

i'm not saying you are completely wrong, i'm saying it goes deeper than most people are able or prepared to take it. any teacher can teach a student 'something' during a lesson. that's not really the point.

i guess it can also depend on who your students are and who your employer is, etc.

it's not only about qualifications but then again it's not NOT about qualifications either. some lazy fuckers try to say it is so they can't get out of doing the work. i'm not blaming you fishy farang. and anyway, let's each of us choose our own destiny...

latm

As a general statement, this is no more valid than saying you can not really be a teacher without a B.Ed. or equivalent. What about the teacher with a B.Ed. and several years experience but no tefl? Is such a person not really a teacher?

I think fishyfarang was pretty close, though he seems to have backtracked a bit:

It obviously helps if you have as much formal preparation as possible, but that does not guarantee a person will be an effective teacher. Much more important is the person's attitude. A person with a tefl may be interested in teaching only as a way to get money for sex and other pursuits and do a terrible job. On the other hand, a person without a tefl may be dedicated to teaching and bring much to a classroom that benefits the students.

At my school a number of the teachers do not have a tefl, have been teaching here three or more years, and are quite effective. They are dedicated to ensuring, to the extent you can in Thailand, that the students learn English; and judging by the students' level of English by the time they are finished the teachers have been fairly successful. Though it always helps to have students who are really interested.

I am a bit annoyed with blanket statements that you need a B.Ed.; you need a degree; you need a tefl and without such (whichever you choose) it is impossible for a person to be a real and, more importantly, effective teacher. If you say it helps, that is fine. In fact, I am sure that is true. But absolute statements like these are totally inaccurate.

fishyfarang

I'm a girl.

__________________
if not now, then when?

latm

That's nice. I like girls.

PeaceBlondie

Maybe this has been said already in this thread, but even Bruce of TeflInt likes to say the TEFL certificate is a beginner's license. Once you've had two or three years' experience, you've done the practicum, a hundred times over, even if you never sat in a TEFl class. Employers should recognize this.

If you're teaching at a real university or rajabat, teaching advanced courses in composition or literature, and your students are halfway serious about being students, you've got a real challenge on your hands, and need to prepare and improve yourself continually. But if you're teaching beginners in classes of 50, that's a whole different assignment, as in crowd control.

ajarn farang

look. educators are in the very business of examinations and qualifications (and standards supposedly). we all need some form of training, unless of course you are going to come out with that "i'm an autodidact" shite.. what makes you so special that you think you don't have to be measured by the same yardstick as everybody else? a B.Ed. is obviously going to be better than just a CERT alone so 'yes' i would class someone with a B.Ed. alone as a real teacher but someone who is so lazy as to not bother gaining even a CERT is a in my book, plain and simple. give me one good reason why they have not put themselves through the basic mandatory professional training and accreditation? because they are jesus and they can walk on water? or because they are too fucking lazy and take the job too lightly?

who is going to argue with that? if they are qualified but have no ability then you fire them too. they belong in the deadwood category with your mates (and my two mates).

there you go again, looking for excuses with which to cloud the main argument. of course a teacher needs to be dedicated - who can argue with that? but they also need to be trained and qualified. you appear to be of the opinion that unqualified and untrained teachers are always brilliant teachers and vica-versa.. there are no excuses for being a lazy cunt.

yes, but what if they could have been even more successful. people with a limited academic background thinking they know it all from day one - it's this kind of sloppy attitude that is at the heart of the problem. for every hairdresser there is a kid sweeping up the hair from the floor: cutting corners or a cut above the rest?

and if my granny had a cock, she'd be my grandad.

a 'teacher' has respect enough for learning that they themselves will strive to learn. individuals who see no merit in training courses or believe that they themselves can 'opt out' of examinations have no right whatsoever to expect students to listen to them. they are hypocrites. why don't we just tell all the students to teach themselves too.

Posted after 6 minutes 36 seconds:

a commitment to continued professional development and PROVING one is capable by a common and sound measurement.

latm

First, Ajarn Farang, you are quoting latm, not LDMA. It would be nice if you could get such things right, since LDMA probably has no idea what you are talking about.

I am not saying that a tefl is not a good thing to have. I am just pointing out that your absolute statement that someone without a tefl is not really a teacher is absolute nonsense. Indeed, you concede, I think, that someone with a B.Ed. might also be a real teacher.

I would also take exception to your apparent assumption that anyone without a tefl or similar is a lazy individual with no interest in effective teaching or improving as a teacher. I have a BA and instructed class with an agency of the US federal government for many years. I do not have a tefl and probably will never get a tefl because of time constraints, though I am seriously considering an online certificate from a major university in the United States. The price at about 500,000 baht is a bit high, but of more concern is having the technical ability.

I am absolutely certain that a tefl would have been a big advantage for the few weeks that I taught at ECC, but of only marginal benefit where I am now. When I started teaching P6 students in the middle of the year, I was rather lost, but I would have been just as lost if I had a tefl. To compensate, I would often be at the school until 8 or 9 in the evening trying to stay a couple days ahead of the students. Currently I do not have to do that, of course, but still work many more hours than most teachers would have any interest in (and I suspect quite a few more than you). I had a web site for the students to look at last year, and that was a major challenge for someone with limited computer skills, and it will continue, hopefully better, this year.

I don't get any more money for this, but I like teaching and like doing as good a job as I can.

I have no idea how, from what I have written, you could conclude
That statement is just about the most stupid thing I have read, and it is very strange that you would think it would represent my opinion. From that, I am afraid that I am going more to the opinion that you don't read what I write very well.

haltest

A teacher is someone dedicated to education

They should have a higher level of education than those they are teaching.
They should be trained how to teach.
They should believe in continued professional development and actually do some.
They should be SMEs (subject matter experts) in the subject they teach

A tefl qualification does not make you a teacher. It makes you a TEFL teacher only.

It does not mean you can teach any other subjects.

In fact there is no way in hell you should be teaching in high schools, especially other subjects without having a proper teaching qualification.

__________________
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- for your business students + Business Vocab


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

ajarn farang

haltest is of course right. a tefl cert does not make you a genuine high school teacher by most people's standards (and yes some people do have standards), it makes you a tefl teacher only. being a tefl teacher is still a respectable job. but really if you haven't got a university education then you are an 'english instructor'. and that's fine. one can build from there. advance oneself. just like the students. teachers are students.

in thailand we do not work with ideals, we work with realities. therefore having a tefl cert is enough to start out with. a first degree is better. an education degree, english degree, mfl degree or other relevant degree is better still. then of course a masters in a relevant subject cannot help. plus other training courses and let's not forget the Dip TEFL.

so just in case anyone misunderstood me before: if you have NO QUALIFICATIONS and REFUSE to get any, either now or at any time in the future, for whatever reason YOU ARE NOT A TEACHER. you are a comedy figure. but that's ok. just don't go thinking you're something you're not.

Posted after 3 minutes 25 seconds:

haltest is of course right. a tefl cert does not make you a genuine high school teacher by most people's standards (and yes some people do have standards), it makes you a tefl teacher only. being a tefl teacher is still a respectable job. but really if you haven't got a university education then you are an 'english instructor'. and that's fine. one can build from there. advance oneself. just like the students. teachers are students.

in thailand we do not work with ideals, we work with realities. therefore having a tefl cert is enough to start out with. a first degree is better. an education degree, english degree, mfl degree or other relevant degree is better still. then of course a masters in a relevant subject cannot help. plus other training courses and let's not forget the Dip TEFL.

so just in case anyone misunderstood me before: if you have NO QUALIFICATIONS and REFUSE to get any, either now or at any time in the future, for whatever reason YOU ARE NOT A TEACHER. you are a comedy figure. but that's ok. just don't go thinking you're something you're not.