ajarn farang

experience is undoubtedly vital. that's not the issue. it's not hard: if you have a tefl cert and no higher education (or if don't have a cert or any HE but intend to get at least a cert as soon as you can) then you ARE a teacher of sorts.

nobody is debating that. what i'm saying is that experience alone and no quals or no interest in quals is completely unacceptable. would you pass your students if they refused to sit a mandatory test just because you felt they knew most of the work anyway. like fuck. one rule for all. pull your fingers out you moaning slags. there are many parts to being a teacher and qualifications, experience and aptitude are foremost among them.

Posted after 1 minute 11 seconds:

and of course dedication. if you can't be arsed to study for professional qualifications, you are not dedicated, no matter how many hours you spend in the office.

kenkannif

So you'd not work for a well horrible place that took people on without a TEFL....like that crappy wank Nonthaburi project place???

Nowt worse than a hypocrite preaching!!!

Many parts to being a teacher in Thailand mate, and my list of what's needed is remarkably different from yours Crazy huh?

You'll learn!

Have a good one chaps! See you Sunday!!!

__________________


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ajarn farang

utter drivel. you are not a teacher in my book.

Posted after 1 minute 7 seconds:

i have no control over the nonth. project i just did my best. what i can. and that's all.

risktohimself

[quote="ajarn farang"]
so just in case anyone misunderstood me before: if you have NO QUALIFICATIONS and REFUSE to get any, either now or at any time in the future, for whatever reason YOU ARE NOT A TEACHER. you are a comedy figure. but that's ok. just don't go thinking you're something you're not.

Some real bollards being posted here Ajarn Forum.

I have no university education to call on, just a decent high school drilling that taught me everything I think I need to know to be able to teach English to Prathom students in Thailand. That's PRATHOM.
Once I had decided to move to Thailand, the opportunity to become qualified IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM never arose, what with me having to provide for my family. The guy responsible for employing people at the language school I was interviewed at seemed to be impressed with me, and gave me a job. I tried not to let him down. I never considered myself lazy or a comedy figure, although some of my early efforts at teaching could be said to have been 'amateurish'. I got better and liked what I did. The students liked me, as did their parents and, most importantly, so did the school. I felt successful, and that gave me more confidence to go on and speak to others. I gained my experience hands-on. Not ideal, but in the situation I was in, it was the only choice I had.

Now, you lot can talk for as long as you like about your qualifications and what they mean, but your debate will not convince me that the only way to teach in Thailand is to have to prove you can stand X years at university first. So long as each individual can satisfy her/himself that she/he is doing a good job, carry on.

Forget

So simply having the intention to sit through a month long course which cannot be failed is sufficient to qualify as an EFL teacher. It's no wonder that you consider yourself underpaid when there are professional standards like that to be met.

ajarn farang

no actually i talk the talk and i walk the walk. i've got a TESOL and i got that before my first degree. why can't everyone else get qualified? because they don't give a fuck. simple(tons). i'll go on and get the Dip Tefl too and a masters and a PGCE. i'll probably get a doctorate as well. not saying you need too. but you should get a tefl and it would be nice if you had a degree. what harm will it do you? it's hardly chinese water torture!! a real teacher would want to study and qualify. i don't understand the mentality at all. soz.

btw if unqualified teachers were employed on the nonth. project it wasn't my doing. if the filipinos take no interest in professional development in the future then i say the same thing to them: you are not professional teachers.

i never said that. what i said was if you are not qualified now that's ok but you should intend to get qualified at some point in the future. it's the same for all of us, the task is open-ended... my next objective is the Dip TEFL or a masters - yours should be the CERT and at some point a first degree. i put no timeline on that but obviously the sooner the better, not least for you.

no that's merely step 1. actually there was one bloke who failed my TESOL course. step 1 is better than step 0 which demonstrates a complete disregard for the profession. are you saying that it would make you a better teacher NOT to do a cert???

in a developed country like england the requirements in terms of acceptable applications for teaching positions are more stringent for this age group than for high school. think on.

i understand this and i sympathise. i'm not saying that if you didn't have the opportunity then you are a comedy figure. i am saying that if you think you are too good to qualify and bypass the system forever then you are a comedy figure. you should actively want to gain qualifications in the future or you're not much of a student. and therefore should not be a teacher.

granted, they're bound to be. i had a solid grounding in methodology from my cert and it was still difficult. but i'm still using what i learned 10 years ago on my TESOL course in every single lesson i teach. indispensable.

a process of extreme trial and error which is not fair to your students. moreover, bad habits often persist well into ones teaching career. i had a friend with a BA but no cert and she too was very popular with the students and thai teachers. but she was a completely shit language teacher who had no idea that speaking 'thai-nglish' was wrong!! she used to speak 'english' to the kids with thai pronunciation, thai intonation patterns grafted on to sentences, unauthentic tense usage (i.e. present simple for everything) and the kids copied her. she was an amateur but then she is not alone. she thought she was really good too. TIT.

i'm not disputing that at all. in fact i welcome this. everybody STARTS somewhere.

read yourself below.. full of

It obviously helps if you have as much formal preparation as possible, but that does not guarantee a person will be an effective teacher. Much more important is the person's attitude. A person with a tefl may be interested in teaching only as a way to get money for sex and other pursuits and do a terrible job. On the other hand, a person without a tefl may be dedicated to teaching and bring much to a classroom that benefits the students.

and if my aunty had a cock, she'd be my uncle. you are just trying to distract attention away from the main argument. there is no excuse for not wanting to get qualified. the kids have to sit exams, why can't you??!!!

Posted after 16 minutes 8 seconds:

where shall i pin the medal? get a cert and i'll even stretch to a gold star.

PeaceBlondie

Good grief, hentajiin/ajarnfarflung, who said that anybody should teach English in Thailand with no qualifications whatsoever? Nobody is defending absolute lack of training. The more education one has, the better. Bachelor's, TEFL cert, maybe degrees in English and education, surely should prepare a teacher to teach. And oh, surely yes indeedy, get several doctorates while you're at it; there's no telling when an M.D. would come in handy if Ponchasachara falls out the window while putting on her makeup.

Don't be silly. If there are any standards for most farang teaching in Thailand, it would be a real bachelor's degree from an accredited university in the English-speaking West, and a four week TEFL course, preferably in Thailand. No, the post-graduate, four week courses are far more than just a walk in the park and a vomit in the pub. The real courses are tough, and they do prepare almost all students to teach EFL.

And yes, of course, self-improvement is only normal for one who takes their job as a profession. Mind you, however, most of us do not find 'professional TEFL positions' in Thailand. If I were still working full time, I wouldn't have the time (or cash on hand from my earnings) to pursue an MA-Tesol, for example. Here we are at the long summer break between school years, and what uni in Thailand is offering so much as a refresher course during the break?

AjarnFarang, there are some real tossers, wankers and jerks here in Thailand, pretending to almost kinda sorta maybe teach a little English now and again between barhopping and sexual escapades. Not that such activities necessarily prevent one from teaching well. On the other hand, you then go to the opposite extreme and beat the wardrums for folks with much higher education than 90% of the positions of Thai TEFL require.

And here we thought that this subject had already been beaten to death. Well, we're beating a dead horse. Good night. Actually, good morning.

__________________
"The times I've been mistaken, it's impossible to say" - by the Moody Blues

latm

Ajarn farang, I rarely deal in absolutes. You conclude as my opinion: "you appear to be of the opinion that unqualified and untrained teachers are always brilliant teachers and vica-versa."

You seem to have obtained this view from my saying "A person with a tefl may be interested in teaching only as a way to get money for sex and other pursuits and do a terrible job. On the other hand, a person without a tefl may be dedicated to teaching and bring much to a classroom that benefits the students."

It seems to be a bit of a stretch for you, but please note the use of the word "MAY". This word raises the possibility, the potential, for something; it does not mandate it.

You have a pattern of making absolute statements, and then backtracking when challenged. A simple solution for this might be to be less dogmatic, or think a little more about things before you write them.

As far as the medal and gold star go, don't worry about them. What I do I do for selfish reasons; I like teaching. If I didn't, I would stop because I do not need the money.

MikeS

We should be learning all our lives. If we're not, then we're already in God's waiting room.

__________________

ajarn farang

good man.

alright then latm, how do you like this:

a person WITHOUT a tefl may be interested in teaching only as a way to get money for sex and other pursuits and do a terrible job. On the other hand, a person WITH a tefl may be dedicated to teaching and bring much to a classroom that benefits the students.

daft. what you say is an irrelevance. a person should be qualified regardless of whether they drink or fuck. you would not be accepted to teach at a BC accredited school but the world is your oyster in mickey mouse thailand. we need a common measurement for everybody if standards are to be maintained by everybody. ABSO-FRUITLY essential. not just for those who feel like it. just saying you know what you're doing is subjective. my mate thinks he is brilliant and genuinely a teacher after 4 months on the job. fucking laughable. he is only teaching young kids but he lacks a certain level of education himself. not his fault by any means, but a reality it most certainly is.

pb i will respond to you later.

latm

You are getting better regarding your tendency to ridiculous absolute statements. You still have a way to go, of course, but you are getting at least a little better.

Now you really need to work on realizing that what you say really isn't that important to many.

risktohimself

Yeah. The magic word "MAY" again, Ajarn Forum. I was interested in teaching only as a way of supporting my family until I realised that I liked doing it as well. Does this come under your heading of "other pursuits"?

You said it's OK for me to teach unqualified so long as I intend to become qualified in the future. I don't, not because I think I can get by without being qualified, but because the time I have available would not be enough to do a course of study proper justice. You'll just have to take my word on that.

You say that it is not fair to my students that I gained my experience in a hands-on way, but which of us can say they knew everything before they stepped into the classroom for the first time. Besides, as I have already said, my path was set by circumstances that were not ideal. I just hope that your lady friend with a BA hasn't read the things you wrote about her in your off-handed way. She was obviously enjoying what she did, and finding ways around a difficult problem. Her 'unauthentic tense usage', whilst not correct, is employed by many teachers as a base. Walk before you can run. If nothing else, it probably built student confidence. There are lots of folks like that in Thailand, Ajarn Forum, and who is to judge who is fit to teach and who is not? You? Well, as PB said, this subject has been discussed long enough already without an agreement, so perhaps you ought to dismount from that high horse and I'll get off my pony.

the antithesis

[quote="PeaceBlondie"]Nobody is defending absolute lack of training. The more education one has, the better. Bachelor's, TEFL cert, maybe degrees in English and education, surely should prepare a teacher to teach.

quote]

Perhaps one could substitute " more education" for more experience and/or training?

__________________

ajarn farang

tell it to the british council retard. i wonder if they'd give you a job

AMATEUR

Posted after 2 minutes 58 seconds:

no. ALL 3. the holy trinity. and since i am god's representative on earth, what i say goes... you fucking

Posted after 3 minutes 50 seconds:

examining bodies.

Posted after 4 minutes 34 seconds:

that's a shame. but don't give up on the idea. when the thais deride you and say you are not a real teacher and that you are an overpaid fraud it would be nice to have that 'bit of paper' to wave under their noses.

Posted after 3 minutes 51 seconds:

i had to radically change my techniques and approaches when i started teaching thai children. however, the fundamentals were already there since they apply across the board (across cultural boundaries). i had to employ trial and error - which is obviously profitable in the long term (call it 'experimentation' if you like). you wouldn't want to be walking into a classroom utterly clueless however. that's what training is for. i will continue to 'experiment' in my new post. but i would also be very grateful for more training. of course i can get some books and read up in the meantime. :chug:

i told her straight to he