Thread: I can't pronounce haa!

Originally Posted by Cyrille

Yup. I'm calling 'haa' a 'rise fall' tone. Not a falling tone.

I know, but that's not what it's normally called.

Here's a graph of what they are like (using the standard names for each tone). Haa would be the falling one and hok the low one, on this graph.

Well, the peak should be early in the tone really. I'm just trying to stick to standard definitions so as not to confuse.

Originally Posted by SageAndOnion

I know, but that's not what it's normally called.

Not sure what 'normal' is.

Originally Posted by SageAndOnion

I'm just trying to stick to standard definitions so as not to confuse.

I don't think there are any standard definitions.

Linguaphone has 'haa' as a 'rise fall' tone.

I realise that doesn't equal a slam dunk, of course.

But after 14 years in Thailand that's how I hear it, and I've never said it and been misunderstood.

Unlike my attempts at 'Ramkamhaeng'

Normal being what it's called in every single book and website about the Thai language, that I've come across so far.

เสียงเอก (siang ayk) = low tone
เสียงสามัญ (siang saaman) = mid tone
เสียงจัตวา (siang jadtawaa) = rising tone
เสียงตรี (siang dtrii) = high tone
เสียงโท (siang tow) = falling tone

These are what I would call the standard definitions of the five sounds in the Thai language. They are what I have encountered in all the books I have read (I have never listened to the linguaphone course though). Thai people don't really seem to think about the language like this in any case, so it's only what most authors of Thai language books for English speakers have called them.

Originally Posted by SageAndOnion

Normal being what it's called in every single book and website about the Thai language, that I've come across so far.

Well normal in my books is obviously different from normal in yours.

What are these 'normal websites' of which you speak?

Originally Posted by SageAndOnion

Thai people don't really seem to think about the language like this in any case

Yes, that's true.

My Thai wife first taught foreigners Thai for the British Council 14 years ago and had to very quickly appraise herself of this whole idea.

Here's some more:

The Thai Language - Thailand for Visitors
soc.culture.thai Language FAQ
Phuket - Thai Language
Thai Language
Learning the Thai Language: ThingsAsian
Thai language: Information from Answers.com
Thailand: a global studies handbook - Google Book Search
How to Speak Thai and Be Understood: Basic Rules and Techniques for Tones in Thai Language | Suite101.com
Thai Language
Learning the Thai language | Thailand Land of Smiles

I'm afraid I'm off the beer at the moment, but I guess the odd five (or six if we are really bad at Thai) won't hurt.

As a random sampling, could you point out how this site supports your argument?

Speak basic Thai - tones and sounds - 1stop Samui

Originally Posted by SageAndOnion

When I said normal, I was referring to books on the subject rather than websites

Oh sorry, I must have misunderstood you when you wrote

Originally Posted by SageAndOnion

Normal being what it's called in every single book and website about the Thai language, that I've come across so far.

Golly - I'm really confused now.

Originally Posted by Cyrille

As a random sampling, could you point out how this site supports your argument?

Certainly. In this sentence:

There are five tones in Thai language, low, middle, high, rising and falling.

The reference to the falling tone, rather than what you called a rising/falling tone, and the low tone (being what you referred to as the falling tone).

Regarding websites / books - anyone can put a website up and therefore I am aware you might question them as an authoritative source. I still think they bear out my opinion that low, middle, high, rising and falling are the common way to describe the five tones in the Thai language though, which is why I mentioned them.

Originally Posted by trogon

Every time I try to say haa Thais think I'm saying hok, but they understand when I say the other numbers. I try repeating it several times with different variations in tone, but they still don't understand. I know it's the tone that I'm getting wrong. How can I say haa so that I'm understood first time?

Originally Posted by trogon

Thanks, I'll try sounding tired next time. Another problem I get is people often think I'm making a statement when I'm asking a question, even though I'm saying mai at the end. Maybe I just can't pronounce high tones.

Hey trogon. Don't mean to jump on your case or anything but you've lived in Thailand for 8.5 years and are struggling with issues like this? Is there more you could tell us about yourself that would help us understand why you're struggling?

What is your normal English accent like?

Originally Posted by Chang

I also had the problem with confusion between the numbers one and eight in taxis until someone explained that Thais don't ususally say "eighty-one" (paed-sip-et) but 8 - 1 ( paed neung). So taxi drivers are listening for primary numbers 0 - 9 and the nearest to 8 is 1.

This one's a classic, I've been taken well out of my way before due to this miscommunication. bpat neung is definitely the way to go.

Some great stuff on this thread folks! Thanks!

Originally Posted by Cyrille

A correctly pronounced 'haa' sounds 'disapproving' in English.

Or, more accurately, like 'I TOLD YOU SO!'

But less emphatic.

Absolutley. It works for me every time. My two greatest achievements in Thai language are, however, being able to order chicken without being served egg, and directing a taxi to soi 18 without being taken to soi 11. I can now progress to conquer the world.