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Thread: Tourists Killed by Incompetence?

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    Senior Member Array tomcat's Avatar
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    Tourists Killed by Incompetence?

    ...finally, a pausible explanation, beyond "coincidence", for the deaths of tourists at the Downtown Inn in Chiang Mai...who, I wonder, will be held responsible for such inattention to safety norms...room service?

    Lethal bug toxin found in hotel
    Published: 9/05/2011 at 12:00 AM
    Newspaper section: News (BkkPost)

    An independent investigation has found traces of a potentially lethal toxin in the Chiang Mai hotel where a New Zealand tourist became fatally ill.

    Traces of chlorpyrifos, which is used to kill bedbugs but has been banned in other countries, have been found in samples that the New Zealand current affairs television show 60 Minutes had independently tested, The Dominion Post reported.

    Sarah Carter, 23, died on Feb 6, and her friends Emma Langlands and Amanda Eliason became gravely ill while they were on holiday in the Downtown Inn Hotel in Chiang Mai.


    Carter: Heart affected
    Five people died from unexplained causes in Chiang Mai over a 16-day period after New Year. Four stayed at the Downtown Inn Hotel. A UN scientist, Ron McDowall, said there was a strong likelihood Carter died from excessive exposure to the substance, which causes identical symptoms to those suffered by the trio as well as several other tourists who died after staying at the hotel.

    Most had myocarditis, or inflammation of the heart. Thai authorities have maintained the deaths were a coincidence.

    Chiang Mai's head of public health Dr Surasing Visaruthrat also investigated the insecticide theory.

    "I'm not a specialist," he said. "But it's possible that they mixed together the wrong chemicals." The fact traces of chlorpyrifos were found three months after Carter's death and after the room was cleaned suggested the concentration was high.

    "I think she has been killed by an overzealous sprayer who's been acting on the instructions of the hotel owner to deal with bed bugs," Mr McDowall said.

    Even a slight mistake in the dosage of chlorpyrifos, which has been banned for indoor use in many countries, could be lethal, he said.

    Mr McDowall checked his theory with other experts from New Zealand and Italy, who supported his belief.

    "Their reaction was it's quite clear it's chlorpyrifos poisoning; the symptoms are the same, the pathology is the same and the proxy indicates that the chemical was present in the room," he said.

    Chiang Mai and Bangkok-based experts investigating the case will meet tomorrow to share information.
    ...majestically enthroned amid the vulgar herd...

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    Senior Member Array Western Devil's Avatar
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    Incompentence. This word should be added to the national anthem.

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    Exmatrixian Array Thaitanium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    Chiang Mai and Bangkok-based experts investigating the case will meet tomorrow to share information.
    so did you hear what those western experts said?

    yeah, you ever heard of this chlorophyll stuff before?

    only in chewing gum...so their saying they died from an overdose of fresh breath?

    I guess so...we should inform the Ministry of incompetence to immediately ban gum chewing in Chiang Mai hotels.

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    Senior Member Array kiwiling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaitanium View Post
    you ever heard of this chlorophyll stuff before?
    The chemical is not chlorophyll...it is chlorpyrifos...a toxic organophosphate insecticide widely used in agriculture throughout the world...and as an insecticide in buildings....being an organophosphate it is highly volatile so shouldn't persist in any quantity such a long time after use ... it seems these people have cleaned out the rooms thoroughly, and the incident was months ago...so significant traces of the chemical now could indicate that a serious amount was there in the first place...organophosphate insecticides were invented during WWII...they are nerve poisons and disrupt the nervous system...what I cannot understand is how these tourists stayed in a place that had been sprayed with such lethal amounts...chlorpyrifos stinks to high hell anyway...and the formulation used was probably liquid therefore would have contained a lot of solvent...maybe xylene...so this would have made the stench even worse...I have never smelled it even in the cheapest hotel I have stayed at in LOS...so I can only think they were staying in a fleapit...and were naive enough not to get out of such a stench

    ---Update---

    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    Even a slight mistake in the dosage of chlorpyrifos, which has been banned for indoor use in many countries, could be lethal, he said.
    I don't know about this claim...chlorpyrifos is widely used and I don't think has been blamed for this before...so it must have been a major mistake...like using it neat...people could be stupid enough to do that

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    Olive Brancher (*) Array
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
    ...finally, a pausible explanation, beyond "coincidence"
    Really? You say that as if it were fact! Why should I believe you, huh?

    ---Update---

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiling View Post
    The chemical is not chlorophyll...it is chlorpyrifos...
    Dude, pearls before swine.

    ---Update---

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiling View Post
    so significant traces of the chemical now could indicate that a serious amount was there in the first place...
    Like you said, or using it neat....

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    Pretty Like Girl Array WilliamBlake's Avatar
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    Five people died from unexplained causes in Chiang Mai over a 16-day period
    Most had myocarditis, or inflammation of the heart. Thai authorities have maintained the deaths were a coincidence.
    Well that's all right then.
    I married two separate women to save them from poverty - which was big o' me.

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    Senior Member Array kiwiling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu View Post
    Like you said, or using it neat....
    Yes...but that hasn't been mentioned in the press release...which makes me a little suspicious...the stench of neat chlorpyrifos in such a confined place would have been overwhelming...actually any amount likely to cause death would have been...that is why they use organophosphates because they are "gassy" and reach places where bugs hide and liquid sprays cannot reach...chlorpyrifos is a controversial chemical...but because of substantial evidence of chronic effects over time...not because of acute effects like this...I am not saying chlorpyrifos isn't the cause...I am just saying there is a lot of information missing that could make it more clear as to what happenned

    ---Update---

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamBlake View Post
    Well that's all right then.
    I am sure somebody in government knows what really happened...they aren't that stupid...and it is the stupid comments like "it was a coincidence" that make me even more suspicious

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    Olive Brancher (*) Array
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiling View Post
    Yes...but that hasn't been mentioned in the press release...which makes me a little suspicious...the stench of neat chlorpyrifos in such a confined place would have been overwhelming...actually any amount likely to cause death would have been...that is why they use organophosphates because they are "gassy" and reach places where bugs hide and liquid sprays cannot reach...chlorpyrifos is a controversial chemical...but because of substantial evidence of chronic effects over time...not because of acute effects like this...I am not saying chlorpyrifos isn't the cause...I am just saying there is a lot of information missing that could make it more clear as to what happenned
    Good points - but if not chlorpyrifos, then maybe some other industrial cleaning or disinfecting agent - something that is used institutionally. Regarding the stench, sadly, many tourists are dumb, and might not immediately realize that something is foul...

    I doubt very much that it was a secret government project :-)

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    Exmatrixian Array Thaitanium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiling View Post
    The chemical is not chlorophyll...it is chlorpyrifos..
    geezus...does emporium sell senses of humor???you need one baaaad...

    what a tool...

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    Tourists Killed by Incompetence?

    Well duh? You think it's co-incidence? Scary shit man: Where you going to sleep?
    Frederick Douglass: Find out just what any people will quietly submit to
    and you have found out the exact measure of injustice
    and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these
    will continue till they are resisted with either
    words or blows, or with both.

    Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn;
    ďDonít believe them, donít fear them, donít ask
    anything of them.Ē

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    Senior Member Array Classic-Chassis's Avatar
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    It is coincidence. How can it not be? It's nothing more than a coincidence these five people decided to stay in the same hotel as one another roughly at the same time.
    Those that want to read whatever they can want all freedoms, but have to understand they can have freedom, but it must be within the law.

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    Senior Member Array kiwiling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaitanium View Post
    geezus...does emporium sell senses of humor???you need one baaaad... what a tool...


    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu View Post
    but if not chlorpyrifos, then maybe some other industrial cleaning or disinfecting agent - something that is used institutionally.
    Unlikely...chlorpyrifos is an organophosphate...some of the most toxic chemicals available...the Nazi's invented them during WWII...but didn't actually use them...they are toxic enough to kill...my question was how these people stayed in rooms with such a stench...but it seems they might have...it also might be possible that the girl who died was chemically sensitive...in other words had a lower resistance to the toxins in the chemical...but IMO there are still a lot of facts that need to come out to say for sure...and it seems the Thais don't want a bar of it.

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    Reading the papers, I have to agree with you! Doesnt seem likely that this was the cause!

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    Senior Member Array kiwiling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Math View Post
    Reading the papers, I have to agree with you! Doesnt seem likely that this was the cause!
    The NZ papers are up in arms that it was...do you have any other quotes?

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