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Thread: Classroom Discipline: A Losing Battle?

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    Windoze Basher Array theanimaster's Avatar
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    Re: Classroom Discipline: A Losing Battle?

    Quote Originally Posted by second_heaven
    ha ha i had one kid bring in a machette, now he could do what ever he wanted i wasnt goin to ask
    pussy.
    I wish I could afford to make just a dollar a year.

    Just Buy a Mac

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    Re: Classroom Discipline: A Losing Battle?

    Quote Originally Posted by bcqcboy
    Great quotation. Not having to put up with shit has to be the single greatest reason for not teaching in the west (if you're at a school where the staff backs you up, of course).
    have you ever actually taught in a western school? i know many that do and are happy and have good deals. i also know one or two who feel the opposite way. a real teacher wouldn't be afraid to test him/herself in any part of the world.

    as for the original op, who in earth would want to teach a bunch of lazy, unmotivated, disrespectful, lying, cheating, copying students that can't fail and that are fully backed up by the Thai admin??

    the op's original post sounds like an average Thai school. three words which sum up a lot (not all) of Thais attitude to learning. THOU SHALL RESIST.

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    New Member Array stengerj1629's Avatar
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    Re: Classroom Discipline: A Losing Battle?

    [QUOTE="peelieorion"]I came here to live a peaceful life and try and teach English the best I can.
    Me too.

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    Regular User Array bcqcboy's Avatar
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    Re: Classroom Discipline: A Losing Battle?

    Quote Originally Posted by tenstorey
    have you ever actually taught in a western school? i know many that do and are happy and have good deals. i also know one or two who feel the opposite way. a real teacher wouldn't be afraid to test him/herself in any part of the world.
    Only in a secondary school as a teacher-in-training. No, it wasn't that bad, especially since with the age group I was teaching, the 20% or so who really didn't want to be there had already dropped out. Also, most of the students I was working with directly were exchange students or recent immigrants, and not 'westerners'. In terms of differences I'd note between teachers, students and schools in Canada...

    - There's a lot of paperwork at certain times of year, but otherwise you can make the job very easy for yourself. The students come into your class and then leave and your responsibilities end.
    - You can usually make disciplinary problems someone else's job.
    - As long as students don't really disrupt your lesson, just about anything goes. You can expect to hear 'fuck' and 'shit' many times walking down a main corridor at break. Some girls have their hands all over boys and vice-versa. Students will light up cigarettes the moment they step off school grounds as teachers pass by in their cars. It's no secret that some of the students do drugs. Students regularly truent, happy to face the minimal consequences for doing so.
    - Taking school seriously is optional, except for children of certain ethnicities whose parents actually demand they achieve something.
    - Be careful what you say, not so much around students as around certain co-workers, as certain whiney, PC women want nothing more than the opportunity to get offended about something.
    - Learning how to work with stupid people is a must. Some teachers are shockingly stupid. You wonder how on earth they got university degrees.

    All in all, it didn't look like *that* terrible a job, but for a prospective teacher who really wanted to give teaching his all, I could tell right from the start that it would be a job riddled with disappointment.

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    New Member Array eflclassroom's Avatar
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    Re: Classroom Discipline: A Losing Battle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Just another BOF
    Often the reason the students are too loud in class is really poor acoustics. At our school none of the walls absorb sound and so it bounces around the room each sound building on the other until there is a horrible cacophony. If you can get the school to put corkboards on the walls or sound proof yhr room with felt tiles. This will naturally encourage the students to talk more quietly
    I wholeheartily agree! Actually, I've had many comments from the teachers that I teach, supporting the use of a microphone and speakers in the classroom that I advocate.

    All you need is a CD player with an external A/V jack. Get a microphone with 5m of cord and a jack (big female / small male ends) which adapts it for the CD player. Then you are set. Students will hear much clearer. It isn't always dependent on size either. I sometimes teaching in a very small class but still will use the mic and it makes things much clearer.

    Also a mic focuses attention, people listen more, more carefully/attentively.

    DD
    EFL CLASSROOM 2.0

    PS> mentioned on here, I highly recommend the Teaching with Bailey series on teacher TV. I have the whole series on our community A/V player and most of his indepth teacher training tips/discussions revolve around classroom management issues.
    "When one teaches, two learn"

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    Re: Classroom Discipline: A Losing Battle?

    ^ I agree. I use a microphone in my class on a daily basis. I also have a great sound system. The benefits of using a mic are many. You can get the students' attention easier. The sound often drowns out the noise, so they have no choice but to shut up.

    Sometimes I get the students to talk in the mic while doing an activity. The students think it is fun, and once they overcome their shyness, they will want to speak in the mic.

    Implement the rules at the beginning of the year, and stick to them. Go over them for at least a week, and ask them what the rules are. Don't just tell them. Make sure they understand them, so give examples of breaking the rules. Stick with them. Consistency and fairness wins at the end of the day.

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    sinnesloschen Array Well's Avatar
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    Re: Classroom Discipline: A Losing Battle?

    Quote Originally Posted by eflclassroom
    Students will hear much clearer.
    not true.

    nothing is better than projecting your natural voice.

    "so please show no pity as we come up from the ground, and please remember as you kill us and cut us down that time will not wash clean the bloody face of history, and someone will breathe here again and they will hate you for what you leave." m.g.


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    Re: Classroom Discipline: A Losing Battle?

    Quote Originally Posted by phuketbound
    ^ I agree. I use a microphone in my class on a daily basis. I also have a great sound system. The benefits of using a mic are many. You can get the students' attention easier. The sound often drowns out the noise, so they have no choice but to shut up.

    Sometimes I get the students to talk in the mic while doing an activity. The students think it is fun, and once they overcome their shyness, they will want to speak in the mic.

    Implement the rules at the beginning of the year, and stick to them. Go over them for at least a week, and ask them what the rules are. Don't just tell them. Make sure they understand them, so give examples of breaking the rules. Stick with them. Consistency and fairness wins at the end of the day.
    I'm dead against microphones. I think it just encourages the students to whisper. As a teacher you need to train kids to listen better by varying your voice. You also have to encourage the kids that speaking is cool, fun and you're allowed to make mistakes. Rewarding and praising kids for trying to answer questions reinforces this. you also have to teach kids to listen. when you look at the lessons on T.V half the kids are just laughing and talking when someone is speaking. I have zero tolerance to kids who don't listen. My P1, 6 years old have amazing listening skills and concentration unhgeard of in any country. their speaking and reading for their age is unbelievable. The thai teacher instilled the skills last year and their progress is amazing. Its not easy but consistency and constant positive praise gets Thais out of their shells. Not easy at M1 level though when many kids have been allowed to be invisible. A sure winner here is to make 30% of your finals a speaking test. what happens is you create a reason to speak and many more students have a go.

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    Re: Classroom Discipline: A Losing Battle?

    ^My students don't whisper, and what is wrong with whispering, when they are supposed to be quiet (classroom management). I don't use it often when I teach. I sometimes use the microphone as a last resort, to get the students attention. I also use it to explain instructions for a test. I find the microphone gets their attention, if all else fails. My Korean co-teacher also uses it.

    I don't get my students using the microphone on a daily basis. If they are having a dialogue and they have a very low vioce, and the students in the back can't hear them, then I use it. I have 40 students in my class, and the students often speak in a very low voice(especially the girls).

    I also use positive praise, and have a reward system in place. It works wonders for these children who just need some confidence in order to speak in English.

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    Re: Classroom Discipline: A Losing Battle?

    Quote Originally Posted by phuketbound
    ^My students don't whisper, and what is wrong with whispering, when they are supposed to be quiet (classroom management). I don't use it often when I teach. I sometimes use the microphone as a last resort, to get the students attention. I also use it to explain instructions for a test. I find the microphone gets their attention, if all else fails. My Korean co-teacher also uses it.

    I don't get my students using the microphone on a daily basis. If they are having a dialogue and they have a very low vioce, and the students in the back can't hear them, then I use it. I have 40 students in my class, and the students often speak in a very low voice(especially the girls).

    I also use positive praise, and have a reward system in place. It works wonders for these children who just need some confidence in order to speak in English.
    Wasn't having a go Phuket. In some situations its good I'm sure. Here in Thailand though its overused. Too many Thai teachers screaming over the kids rather than getting their attention. I guess you'll always have shy kids and thats the jopb to build their confidence. I always tell my kids that if people can't hear you they're not going to listen for very long. My kids have confidence because they have something to say. I guess its easy to talk softly if you've never been asked a question in your life. Thai teachers avoid asking direct questions like the bubonic plague. No idea why but it does breed a whole load of shy kids. I guess they're scared to find out how little their students actually know.

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    New Member Array eflclassroom's Avatar
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    Re: Classroom Discipline: A Losing Battle?

    About microphones.

    There is no hard and fast rule and certainly as mentioned, it isn't to be used all the time. But it does provide scientifically proven benefits to students of not just languages but all subjects (the exception being ASL). Those "against" the use of a microphone tend to be those against any use of "gadgets" and technology which enhance student attentiveness and learning. I've literally been amazed at the studies I've read, especially concerning lower level students and how proper classroom acoustics significantly translates into "learning". (and I don't just mean grades.).

    Look just at the very ancient and cross cultural practice of the "talking stick". It is an ageless way, giving power and authority to the speaker (and attention) where none might be offered. We still practice this innately.

    So we all have our tolerances, our own classroom teaching style. But just for the benefits to your own voice alone (a precious asset to any EFL teacher), it is worth getting a microphone.

    David
    EFL CLASSROOM 2.0

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    Regular User Array bcqcboy's Avatar
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    Re: Classroom Discipline: A Losing Battle?

    I figure that if I need a microphone for a class of up to 40 students there's something wrong with either my public speaking abilities or classroom management skills. On rare occasions when I'm teaching in our school's multi-media room for whatever reason I'll sometimes use the microphone for short stretches just for the sake of variety, but even in a room twice the size of a regular class room I like the mobility that comes with self-projection. That said, there are times when I'd like to have a microphone for when students are speaking in class, though I don't know if speaking into a mic would make them more or less shy to speak.

    Words I associate with microphones: monologue, stationary, technology-dependent, overbearing, fixed-volume, controlling.

    Words I associate with learning English: dialogue, dynamic, independence, coaxing, varied volumes, manipulating.

    In short a mic is something I just don't want in my tool box unless I was doing uni lectures of 100+.

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    Re: Classroom Discipline: A Losing Battle?

    Quote Originally Posted by bcqcboy
    Words I associate with microphones: monologue, stationary, technology-dependent, overbearing, fixed-volume, controlling. Words I associate with learning English: dialogue, dynamic, independence, coaxing, varied volumes, manipulating. In short a mic is something I just don't want in my tool box unless I was doing uni lectures of 100+.


    horrible things; lazy.

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    Senior Member Array Matthew's Avatar
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    Re: Classroom Discipline: A Losing Battle?

    I'd love a microphone;

    I'd turn it all the way up megaphone stylee

    and give these students

    a dose of their own medicine!!!

    BLARING LOUD

    ...I used a mic in my first job with kids
    and it made things easier for me.

    Some kids just respect the M.I.C., like they should Rakim (the microphone FIEND!)

    I agree that it shouldn't become a crutch though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Well
    lazy.
    Thaddeus Golas like.

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    Re: Classroom Discipline: A Losing Battle?

    Quote Originally Posted by peelieorion
    I guess its easy to talk softly if you've never been asked a question in your life. Thai teachers avoid asking direct questions like the bubonic plague. No idea why but it does breed a whole load of shy kids. I guess they're scared to find out how little their students actually know.
    Yes, listen, and repeat. It is amazing when you ask students what they think, and they look at you like you are a crazy teecha. At first I didn't get anyone answering, then after awhile, they start to think for themselves. It is a shame to see how (Koreans) are often brought up like robots. I see it even outside of the school system, and putting that together with the group beehive mentality, then it is easy to stand out to much for having opinions of your own. You see more Koreans who have their own views and opinions w who have lived abroad, and it is very obvious.

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