bet

Listen to the difference between the short 'o' in focus and the way the diphthong is pronounced. You're listening for the decrease in pitch and volume as the diphthong is voiced.

Compare with date.

Listen to the ending in teacher, when pronounced in a non-rhotic accent. Your accent, and mine, pronounce the 'r'.

Matthew

"Day" and "A" the (alphabet letter sound) rhyme, right?

That means only the initial consonant sound is different.

Now, what's the sound the "y" seems to make in day?

It's an "e" sound (like the letter of the alphabet). There

you are. That dipthong /eɪ/ has got two sounds. It's just that our

brains have a hard time disassociating enough with these fundamental

symbols to hear them for what they are in a more detailed fashion.

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bewildered wanderer

say it in a sentence quickly and focus on the sound of the 'a'...
if you say just the word alone, you are probably emphasizing the 'a' too much so it sounds like a short 'u' sound...

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momma

Lizara

The way I'd say "about" isn't a schwa, it's with the short u vowel sound. Maybe, as an American, you do the same thing. The schwa is that "euh" kind of sound in, for instance, the second syllables of "pencil", "towel" or "glasses".

Matthew

"eh" + "ee" = that dipthong, basically.

the sound of the letter 'a'.

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LoveBucket

try ... "what's this thread about? i'm off for a bout of beer chang, and i'll be back in about three hours"

martyboy

Inclined to agree with LoveBucket but I will pour myself a large single malt and revert to some salacious website instead. What is the point of all that research? You merely have to say the word which includes the dipthong to your students and hopefully they will repeat it correctly. If they are early learners they won't understand your explanation anyway. Moreover, it will sound different when an American, Glaswegian, Ulster, Mancunian or ex Etonian teacher says it.

Matthew

I think syllable stress (TOWer vs. toWERRR - not necessarily a big block to communication, but an easy way to sound and perhaps feel like you can speak good English) and PRONOUNCING S's AT THE END OF WORDS , fnial -ed's, and sentence stress, which can convey a lot of meaning in itself, stuff like that is ultimately more important that the nitty gritty of dipthongs etc. but I think the OP is simply trying to round out his study of the area because, once in a while, things things can and will come up in an adult pronunciation class.

Oh, and connected speech. That's a big one, because students are used to hearing over-simplified English and when you speak naturally, connecting all kinds of words in strings, they lose it. They need lots of awareness and listening practice, and then a bit of production, but it's the listening that is most important for that one, probably.

Also consonant clusters which can mess clear commucation like /th/ and /t/ as is "three" and "tree". /V/ sound, /s/ and /z/ all the voiced/unvoiced pairs, though some are really more important than others. /R/ and /L/ for sure.

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Eric C

Exactly Matthew, thank you. I do teach adults and the /əʊ/ & /eɪ/ matter was raised by a particularly bright student. The other points you mention are covered in my curriculum and of course I'd not drill down so far on something like this in class but, I teach pronunciation so I should understand it 100%! I happen to even find studying it interesting.

Thanks to those who took the time to comment, I think I understand it a bit better now. Advocates of the why bother, be mediocre, approach are encouraged to avoid my classroom threads.

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"It is anti-pedagogical to expect campesino students to be educated [in a schoolhouse in such poor condition], while government officials drive Mercedes cars. That is what we are fighting against."
--Ernesto "El Che" Guevara (hours before his execution)

"I don't believe that drug addiction is an occupational hazard."
-- Duke Ellington (Playboy's "Narcotics and Jazz Musicians" panel discussion)

LoveBucket

if that po faced remark is aimed at me, please understand that my intention was to be both helpful and light hearted

Eric C

It wasn't LB, I got the humor in your post, it's martyboy I'm a bit miffed with.

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"It is anti-pedagogical to expect campesino students to be educated [in a schoolhouse in such poor condition], while government officials drive Mercedes cars. That is what we are fighting against."
--Ernesto "El Che" Guevara (hours before his execution)

"I don't believe that drug addiction is an occupational hazard."
-- Duke Ellington (Playboy's "Narcotics and Jazz Musicians" panel discussion)

LoveBucket

i forgive you

martyboy

It seems that whenever I introduce polemic or light cricism, or my opinion (which might be naive) I get a defensive backlash. I think my comment was a valid one. What happens when the next teacher who takes your class is a Glaswegan? Compare the -oe in toe as pronounced with a heavy Scottish accent and as pronounced in 'BBC' English. With the Scottish or Cumbrian pronunciation, and probably others, it isn't a diphthong.

stfranalum

i didnt understand your initial question eric....were you just working out what these sounds are? does the book say that the sounds are different for toe-soap and for cake-day? seems a bit odd actually.

personally, i dont think there are too many english learners who should be so discreet in their learnring to be bothered with such decoding. good for you to study it- youre the teacher! but as to the real teaching objectives of this, its hard to see how it will help them both pronounce and communicate.

cake
day

id agree with you, theres just no difference. "but teacher, why the spelling difference?"

"well, it lies in the origin of english. it has many influences, and hence, you get many types of spellings."

...ask them to spell out "buri ram" or many other formal names in thai...in buri ram, there is a formalized Y at the end, not pronounced. its just a rule, born of tradition. they cant explain it, as there are tons of examples that are different, with different non-sounds



this is best left for the boxing ring which is localized pronounciation and accent. in english, we dont assign pitch differences to 'go' and 'toe'.....its the same sound. if there are pitch differences, they are regional and unique and not based on vowel combinations.