Present Simple v. Future Simple

**ThaiAdventure** · 13th August 2012 16:39

One of my Asian students asked me to explain the difference between phrases
A train will leave at 8:00.
A train leaves at 8:00.
To tell the truth I am not sure what would be a good explanation for an asian adult who speaks English for quite a while. I believe my student was looking for a detailed and reasonable explanation about particular situations in which we would use and prefer PS or PF tenses. Please, help!

**manned-rake** · 13th August 2012 16:51

English has 4 different future tenses. When the simple present is used as a future form it is usually in reference to a schedule, timetable or other fixed future event (usually not "fixed" by the speaker). The will form, the mislabeled "simple" future, is a little unusual here as it is usually used to indicate intention (as opposed to plan) or something of the nature of a prediction, promise or offer, none of which is really normal in regard to a train schedule.

**fred flintstone** · 13th August 2012 18:11

i used to have a thai co-teacher who was gung ho about teaching the difference between 'is going to' and 'will' .
it was an almost impossible to teach. I tried to convince him that there were more important aspects to English...complete waste of time.

**Guy Mandude** · 13th August 2012 18:49

Originally Posted by fred flintstone

it was an almost impossible to teach.

And just as impossible for thais to retain. If thais had the habit of reading English on a daily basis, they might be able to use and understand many of these un-thai verb tenses by seeing them in use. Obtuse descriptions of subtle differences in verb tenses just don't drive the point home.

**manned-rake** · 13th August 2012 18:52

What is and is not a "complete waste of time" is relative to the student's level and interest, as well as to the teacher's.

Apparently some people find it almost impossible to teach the rather vast difference between "going to" and "will", and some students could care less.

So there's that...

---Update---

Originally Posted by Guy Mandude

And just as impossible for thais to retain.

Yes, yes... because as everyone knows all "thais" are exactly the same. Can't dance though.

**Guy Mandude** · 13th August 2012 19:03

Originally Posted by manned-rake

because as everyone knows all "thais" are exactly the same.

For thais - or any ESL student - who do not read English, mastery of grammar rules is impossible. Same for native speakers. My school has no English reading resources for its students, and I have yet to see sustained silent reading in place at any Thai school.

**manned-rake** · 13th August 2012 19:10

The difference being talked about here has nothing to do with "rules" and everything to do with situations and intended meanings that require different usages. "Mastery of grammar rules" is for for those who can't do... of both varieties.

**Guy Mandude** · 13th August 2012 20:00

Originally Posted by manned-rake

everything to do with situations and intended meanings that require different usages.

Like the seven blind men and the elephant if you ask me. If thai students actually read English for pleasure EVERY DAY they would see these situations and intended meanings at work in context. Explicit teaching of grammar rules just doesn't cut it for me.

**manned-rake** · 13th August 2012 20:12

Originally Posted by ThaiAdventure

One of my Asian students asked me to explain the difference between phrases
A train will leave at 8:00.
A train leaves at 8:00.
To tell the truth I am not sure what would be a good explanation for an asian adult who speaks English for quite a while.

(emphasis added)

Having no particular axe to grind, I responded to the OP.

Telling him, even though he may not be "thai", to "read for pleasure every day", in response to his question would be viewed as disrespectful in some quarters. Adults sometimes ask questions. Teachers sometimes have answers. YMMV... almost certainly.

**Guy Mandude** · 13th August 2012 20:15

Originally Posted by manned-rake

in response to his question would be viewed as disrespectful in some quarters.

You're right. I hope OP can answer his/her Asian student with a proper explanation.

**jonny danger** · 13th August 2012 20:15

Originally Posted by manned-rake

The will form, the mislabeled "simple" future, is a little unusual here as it is usually used to indicate intention (as opposed to plan) or something of the nature of a prediction, promise or offer, none of which is really normal in regard to a train schedule.

Will: An action in the future that cannot be influenced

Seems that would depend on the punctuality of the train service.

**markle** · 13th August 2012 20:16

Originally Posted by Guy Mandude

any ESL student - who do not read English, mastery of grammar rules is impossible

Ummmm... not true. Although mastery of more formal, say academic, language is reliant on a great deal of reading, there is no reason a person can't master English (grammar rules?) from verbal communication alone. In fact I've met plenty of people that have complete mastery of the grammar rules through reading but can't string a sentence together verbally...

**Don** · 13th August 2012 20:25

Present simple is a scheduled event. The future simple could be indicating a promise, a decision made at time of speaking, a prediction, or could be official language perhaps used in a document, we don't know without a context. Present continuous with a future time reference for personal arrangements. Going to for general plans/intentions, and strong prediction. These are the four main future aspects taught, but there is also future continuous, future perfect and future perfect continuous. Oh and to really bake you cookies there are only two tenses in English.

**jonny danger** · 13th August 2012 20:35

Originally Posted by Don

The future simple could be indicating a promise, a prediction

That's a slippery slope. Will AND going to can both be promises. It's a matter of stressing the verb. And since will is often a conjunction that case makes it less of a certainty.