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Thread: Murphys Grammar books - some questions

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    Murphys Grammar books - some questions

    I want to buy the Raymond Murphy grammar books, Basic Grammar in Use and Essential Grammar in Use but when speak to DK Bookstore in BKK they seems to think that I would need one and not the other and then compounded the issue by saying that the Essential version is not suitable for beginners !!!!.

    But on this forum in a previous thread, people have stated that the Basic version is good for beginners and the Essential version is good for pre intermediate learners. I am confused and dont wont to buy both when 1 might do

    These are the isbn numbers I have so far and I want to match each isbn with a thai version of the book too so my teaching assistant can understand it..........

    Basic Grammar in Use (beginner) American (prefer british isbn) ISBN 0-521-62600-5
    Basic Grammar in Use (beginner) (Thai) (dont have this isbn)

    Essential Grammar in Use (Beginner)(Br. English) ISBN 0-521-55928-6
    Essential Grammar in Use (Beginner)(Thai edition )(Br. English) ISBN 0-521-01124-6


    The "Essential" books I have ordered. Is there a need to order the "Basic books" as well and can anyone help with the missing isbns

    Thanks for your time and advice

    Melan
    Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.
    I am all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools - Lets start with keyboards ;-)

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    Senior Member Array defender's Avatar
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    Re: Murphys Grammar books - some questions

    There are two others: "English Grammar in Use" and "Advanced Grammar in Use". I think it is kind of like a series, I don't see how any one would replace another.

    I have two. "Essential..." and "English...", they kind of complement each other it seems.

    Are you using them to study or as teaching aids?

    The ISBN for "English...." is 0-521-43680-X

    http://www.cambridge.org/elt/catalog.../grammarinuse/
    -----
    It seems the "Basic..." editions are only available for Americans (...figures )
    -----
    Seems like "Basic..." ain't available in Thai as far as I can see!
    Last edited by defender; 1st February 2007 at 13:40. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    Excuse me for not taking this seriously .....

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    Re: Murphys Grammar books - some questions

    Thanks for that

    i am using them as teaching aids but i am worried that the Essential version is a step to far for beginners. so does that mean i should buy the American version and start there ?? And if not, what is the starter unit that i should purchase

    Melan

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    Re: Murphys Grammar books - some questions

    Dunno really. Yeah it would be a bit difficult for true beginners, but then is solid GRAMMAR the way to go with true beginners anyway?

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    Re: Murphys Grammar books - some questions

    Many of the same lessons are duplicated between Basic and Essential versions. They cover the same topics but the Basic one has fewer and simpler exercises with more pictures and diagrams to assist the student.
    The Advanced book progresses further into idioms and humour, adverbial phrases and other harder work.
    Faith, by itself, isn't a good enough reason to believe. Instead, a belief must be defensible through reason, logic, and evidence.
    The idea that faith is somehow justified by the fact that the beliefs cannot be proven is a truly Orwellian position to adopt - not to mention intellectually and ethically dangerous.

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    Re: Murphys Grammar books - some questions

    The Red Cover (Basic) is the one to use for Beginners. The blue (in the past, purple) is for intermediate students.

    As you are a native speaker, I don't understand why you want the Thai versions. Your students' Thai teachers will be teaching them in Thai, shouldn't you be teaching them in English?

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    Re: Murphys Grammar books - some questions

    Yes I will be teaching them in English, but my assistant obviously prefers an explanation in Thai that she can follow and translate for the students as and when neccesary

    My assistant is very good at speaking but not so good at grammar which is the complete opposite of most teaching assistants who know so much English grammar but can barely string coherent sentences together..... I sure know which one I prefer but anything that helps her grammar explanations is a bonus in my opinion

    Melan

    PS of course you might be saying, hey, both books are exactly the same and then you would be right, I am a melon hahahaha

    Melan

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    Senior Member Array Matthew's Avatar
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    Re: Murphys Grammar books - some questions

    Quote Originally Posted by defender
    "English Grammar in Use"
    I've got this one, I've been studying with it myself!
    "If you're not interested in changing where you work (and thus the student population, obviously) then a) your success at applying various and sundry teaching techniques is unlikely to have anything to do with how effective they are in general, and b) your sweeping generalizations about Thai students serve no purpose but to fuel your inertia and your feeling of being an 'insider'. Sadly (for you) few who read your sweeping generalizations will perceive it that way, but hey if it makes you feel good, knock yourself out." -zeusdogg

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    Australian Teacher in NZ Array sawadeekarb's Avatar
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    Re: Murphys Grammar books - some questions

    I have used Murphy's Grammar books quite a lot teaching Thais English language.

    I have three copies of the series, the red covered Essential in English, the red covered Essential in English/Thai and the blue Advanced version too.

    The English/Thai version is quite useful as Melan mentions, but maybe MisterStretch has not used a Thai assistant in class? I teach classes with my Thai (teacher) wife who is English trained and qualified, so the English/Thai version is quite useful for her and other adult students who find the Thai little explanations quite useful in getting the best understanding translated.

    For the beginner level classes, I have created a few of the units in the Murphy's Grammar book on to my computer and modified as needed to suit the lowest level learners. I modified the sentences much shorter and simpler and my wife added many Thai translated difficulties (in English and Thai) for the students to quickly grasp the exercise in each unit.

    In Unit 1 of am, is are for example, I have changed the image of the girl to my wife's picture and altered the words to suit a beginner level class. In the positive section of He, She and It, I have also added name for a name of person or something.

    Many of our students in our classes know my wife, so the photo of her here with the text in one balloon that says (I'm 22) I changed to (I'm 45) and when I say that example to the class (I'm 45, I am 45), the class laughs when I surpisingly say "Oh, my wife is young like me!" (I am 49!) So in many of the sentences I re-created on my computer have entertaining jokes, laughs and enthusiastically encourages the class in their learning. Also, I use most of these on OHP projector sheets onto my classroom whiteboard where I write notes, my wife adds Thai where needed, and the students copy notes as we progress.

    There are quite a lot of books in both English and Thai available. One book that I have here in English/Thai is OK for more ideas and exercises to use in class is Modern English Grammar In the 21st Century by Janya In-ong.

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    ...I am an Australian Specialist Teacher working in Auckland..
    ....My wife is Thai from Khon Kaen & was a Thai teacher too...
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    Senior Member Array stfranalum's Avatar
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    Re: Murphys Grammar books - some questions

    murphy rocks..thanks for the link defender

    buy 'em all!!!

    and betty azar's books too...they arent laid out as neatly as murphy, but theres a lot more examples in them. if i recall, theres 3 levels of azar's grammar books. she's on a listserv i subscrbe to and i wrote her some time back complimenting her on those books. black-n-whte, simple and strightforward. they are a great resource like the murhpy.

    those two should be your class staple- murphy and azar.

    http://amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/002...&Go.x=9&Go.y=7

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    Senior Member Array MisterStretch's Avatar
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    Re: Murphys Grammar books - some questions

    Yes, stfranalum, I'd agree, Betty Schrampfer-Azar's books are good, too.

    I like Murphy for the examples and explanations, they seem more teacher and student friendly. I've always felt that S-A's books have very intensely detailed explanations that are difficult for many to follow, though her practice exercises are superior to Murphy's, which I feel are too easy.

    I like to have both series at hand when I'm teaching. Combined with a little internet help, they give a good basic background for the students to begin understanding and practicing the language they need to learn.

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