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Thread: Ban Phe TEFL course

  1. #76
    Regular User Array Rabbitproof Fence's Avatar
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    Re: Ban Phe TEFL course

    ^I would strongly disagree. I think Dave Hopkins is one of the best educators I have studied with. He is thorough, his course tries to cover all aspects of teaching and he is a very experienced and still dedicated teacher.

    A one-month course, despite it being very comprehensive and demanding, is not going to turn anyone into Mr Chips. It is merely a grounding.

    I found Dave a very personable and open guy. He certainly answered the many questions that my fellow course-members and I asked.

    A waste of time and money? I don't think you know what you are talking about Nelson.

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    Re: Ban Phe TEFL course

    not to criticise any courses available........
    but
    i had been teaching here for 7 years when i took a tefl course.
    the shool i was at paid for it. said it was part of the new requirements for a work permit. very decent of them to pay, i thought.
    all participants had to do a prac grammar lesson with students from a loal college.
    mine was "past continuous tense with when"
    i presented the lesson. thought i had done well.
    the bloke running it tore strips off me.
    why?
    beause after experiencing a cone of silence, i had the hide to ask students, by name to answer certain questions.
    don't know if it was this particular course or not, but............
    not really up to speed with teaching in a thai shool.
    the bloke did say that the course on offer was for language schools.

    how many gov't teachers out there benifitted from the tefl approach?
    or did you go with the gut and suss it out from there.

    i think kwill said unless you have an english major re grammar?
    sydney uni. and never really touched on grammar. literature. writing. reporting, but no real grammar. pretty sure most of the people i studied with who have never taught esl or tefl would have a hard time explaining why we say i go and he goes.
    i know at first. idid.
    the grammar aspect of what we teach, imo, is one of the most important aspects of being a teacher of english.
    i'msure cyrille would agree that being able to answer a grammar related question with something other than "that's what we say" is important.
    isn't that the difference between a teacher and a wannabe?
    having said all that. a tefl course is a start. but if you are going to teach at a higher level.
    self study of various sources is a must?



    someone kick me up the arse. please. just reread what i wrote.

    kick hard
    to be or not to be.......didn't know will was a tefler

  3. #78
    Hangin' Around Array Cyrille's Avatar
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    Re: Ban Phe TEFL course

    Quote Originally Posted by keegan
    i'msure cyrille would agree that being able to answer a grammar related question with something other than "that's what we say" is important.
    Sure. although I also take peeli's point (I hope I'm not twisting his comments) that a knowledge of phonics would come in more useful in his context than being able to explain when we use the past perfect.

    So someone who has the grammar knowledge but not the phonics expertise might be a 'teacher' in my context of teaching literate adult learners, but a 'wannabe' in peeli's, maybe.

    The fact is that a 120 hr course can't possibly aim to do anything more than give you a basis for development. The CELTA used to be called a 'preparatory' course, but I guess they decided that sounded a bit stuffy.

    The TEFL world now is a different one to the world in which I did my Cambridge Prep Cert 18 years ago - principally because so many more trainees of TEFL courses are working in young learner environments.

  4. #79
    Senior Member Array Matthew's Avatar
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    Re: Ban Phe TEFL course

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrille
    The TEFL world now is a different one to the world in which I did my Cambridge Prep Cert 18 years ago - principally because so many more trainees of TEFL courses are working in young learner environments.
    Which is why the relative scarcity of Young Learners oriented TEFL courses in Thailand is utterly baffling.

  5. #80
    Senior Member Array kiwiling's Avatar
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    Re: Ban Phe TEFL course

    Quote Originally Posted by Nelson
    For all Dave's student centered proactive paradigm" jargon he conducted the training using Thai like rote methods e.g copying his lesson plan out word for word for every single lesson taught.
    The lesson planning is a real weakness in most TEFL courses from what I can see. Proper lesson planning actually needs more tuition time than 100 hours can give.

    I guess that Dave is trying to promote the idea that lessons have to be planned at the same time as protecting newbies with lots of words on paper to satisfy stupid administrators they will encounter later on.

    Confederate General Stonewall Jackson wrote a battle plan (for the Battle of Bull Run I think) in seven lines.

    I have seen TEFL graduates (alumni?) write pages of total bullshit that would confuse Einstein let alone mean anything in the classroom.

    David might be flattered to know his lectures are generating so much heat here. They certainly did on my course anyway with arguments between the North Americans and Brit/Australasians over spelling and grammar. Ok Dave always won because he was American but it sure as hell was better than going to sleep in class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nelson
    A complete waste of time and money.
    Everybody is entitled to an opinion...they are like arseholes. (First time this week Ken)

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    Re: Ban Phe TEFL course

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiling
    (First time this week Ken)
    but it's only tuesday.


  7. #82
    Senior Member Array kiwiling's Avatar
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    Re: Ban Phe TEFL course

    Quote Originally Posted by keegan
    i think kwill said unless you have an english major re grammar?
    Sorry Keegs that was just a guess.

    English wasn't my major but as part of post grad I had to do a paper in English communication which had some grammar so I assumed full English majors might have a lot more. I bow to you...and Sydney Uni

  8. #83
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    Re: Ban Phe TEFL course

    up.
    going back more years than i care to remember, grammar wasn't a major part of the e major course at syd. uni.
    don't know if it has changed??????
    was mostly deciphering lit.
    and putting it 0nto paper in your own thoughts.
    i wonder if that it is acepted, as native speakers, that the grammar is an integral part of our being.
    not the rules, but the usage???????
    could be a paper in that.

  9. #84
    Senior Member Array kiwiling's Avatar
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    Re: Ban Phe TEFL course

    Quote Originally Posted by keegan
    don't know if it has changed??????
    I don't know. The paper I did was based on report writing and cutting the crap...expecially "The fence was jumped by the brown fox"...what is that called? I had never heard of the fancy tenses until I got to Ban Phe. They still confuse me to be honest.

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    Re: Ban Phe TEFL course

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiling
    I guess that Dave is trying to promote the idea that lessons have to be planned at the same time as protecting newbies with lots of words on paper to satisfy stupid administrators they will encounter later on.
    But copying out Dave's lesson plan with the same behavioral and terminal objectives for completely different lessons e.g one from a text book and one from one of Dave's six line dialogues makes absolutely no sense. I changed "with students answering correctly in 40% of instances" to "with students answering correctly in the majority of instances" and he started shouting at me. I calmly asked him to explain how it is possible to tell and record the difference between 40% and 51% in a one hour lesson and he continued to shout at me. His behaviour was appalling. If I a lecturer at my university had behaved in that manner I would have reported him. But at TEFL International there is no complaints procedure, no oversignt, just Lucky CEO and Dave and Bruce.

  11. #86
    Senior Member Array kiwiling's Avatar
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    Re: Ban Phe TEFL course

    Quote Originally Posted by Nelson
    If I a lecturer at my university had behaved in that manner I would have reported him.
    I can't argue with you Nelson. I was only there for a month a couple of years ago and he might he a different person now.

  12. #87
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    Re: Ban Phe TEFL course

    One thing about Dave is that he takes criticism VERY well. If anyone has ever had a problem with him, the best thing to do is go talk to hom about it because he is very willing to admit mistakes and make necessary changes.

    One rather new feature we have is online end-of-course feedback. Anyone can take a look.

    alumni.teflintl.com

    Just click "Feedback" and select "Ban Phe".

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    Re: Ban Phe TEFL course

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrille
    Sure. although I also take peeli's point (I hope I'm not twisting his comments) that a knowledge of phonics would come in more useful in his context than being able to explain when we use the past perfect.

    So someone who has the grammar knowledge but not the phonics expertise might be a 'teacher' in my context of teaching literate adult learners, but a 'wannabe' in peeli's, maybe.

    The fact is that a 120 hr course can't possibly aim to do anything more than give you a basis for development. The CELTA used to be called a 'preparatory' course, but I guess they decided that sounded a bit stuffy.

    The TEFL world now is a different one to the world in which I did my Cambridge Prep Cert 18 years ago - principally because so many more trainees of TEFL courses are working in young learner environments.
    Cyrille, I'm seeing the importance more and more of the grammar aspect of english as my students develop. i'm reading up more on grammar rules, tenses etc. My point is really that the vast majority here are not ready for anything more than simple grammar but yet the level on these courses seems so complicated. as Matthew said its amazing why there is so little going on at the younger level. I hope to fill this gap. what you have is the vast majority of students who can't read, have virtually no vocabulary and never speak. For me its better to have a large amount of this country speaking and reading badly than the present system where those that can afford an expensive school, tutors etc have a little and everyone else is failed. For the majority the knowledge of the teachers leaving these courses are irrelevant as this is not the level that Thailand is going to achive outside of language, International schools and English programs.

  14. #89
    Senior Member Array kiwiling's Avatar
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    Re: Ban Phe TEFL course

    Quote Originally Posted by peelieorion
    My point is really that the vast majority here are not ready for anything more than simple grammar
    True to a point...but I also take corporates and private teaching where the standard is quite high...and they do know about advanced grammar forms. I am pleased to have my TEFL Int workbook in the drawer for that.

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    Re: Ban Phe TEFL course

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiling
    True to a point...but I also take corporates and private teaching where the standard is quite high...and they do know about advanced grammar forms. I am pleased to have my TEFL Int workbook in the drawer for that.
    Fair enough. I like some of the EFL teaching methods for these advanced learners. Its important to teach the theory behnd the English language. I understand why people want to teach in these language schools and teach privates. My Isaan reality is however that people do not have the money and although i meet hundreds of students who are hard working and desperately want to learn English, they have been failed at an early level and don't have even the basics. My job is to convince the Thais to teach phonics and prove the difference you can achieve with a good foundation. The only solution I see here is to change the exams away from multiple guess and make Thais students write and read. If you change the exam you challenge the Thai teachers to develop their skills. Multiple choice encourages them to hide away and let students copy.

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