^ Yup - people need to be moved out of their comfort zone.
Kiwiling is right though - there are plenty of people in BKK who are able to process fairly complex levels of English grammar. It's not just a bunch of cossetted TEFLers who dream up their students needs.
I think that Dave has put together a very sound program tailored to produce graduates who at least know something, some procedure, some set of meaningful practices, which will help, rather than hinder, the acquisition of English language skills.Originally Posted by Nelson
Many of my group of nineteen from Ban Phe in 02 have gotten some really good jobs, are teaching in Thailand, Vietnam, Australia, the US, Japan, China. Many have continued to be professional teachers in many settings since that time. Their experience of learning with Dave doesn't seem to have been a major drawback.
Nelson, you had a little flare-up with Dave where he probably had to be a bit assertive with you. Big deal. I had a few beers with Dave one night and found him to be a very smart, creative, experienced and humane individual. He has devised programs for the United Nations in basic English skills for illiterate Cambodians, he taught in Africa and speaks some African languages. If you want to know about teaching in Japan go and talk to Dave Hopkins.
This is not an ad for Dave or TEFLI but I think you wrongly judge and vilify Dave. Have you run AUA in Thailand? Did you run the Trinity program? Have you successfully administered a program in Thailand for over ten years which is recognised as one of the best TESOL certificate courses in the country? Dave has. What have you done?
Nelson, it appears that you have a real personal axe to grind about Dave Hopkins and Bruce and TEFLI.
What is your incentive for attacking them?
Last edited by Rabbitproof Fence; 5th September 2007 at 20:00.
Its amazing how, as we grow, the small minority's hatred of us grows as well.
Do we mess up on occasion? Certainly. We are not perfect. Do some people (luckily also a small percentage) leave the course dissatisfied? Yes. But the vast majority of our students are happy or very happy with our course.
But the vocal minority have almost become frightening in their hatred. It is both frightening and confusing.
Thanks for spending some time in the newbie zone Bruce, I'm looking into a TEFL course for this upcoming Autumn. It sounds like Dave is the entire focal point of all comments on the Ban Phe course, whether good or bad. Is he (and is he expected to be)the only instructor in the course?
Thanks
Bruce I respect what you and Dave try to achieve which is not easy in Thailand. My questions is based on what i see in Isaan where every government school I see has a vast majority of kids who can't read for meaning. I know because I check their reading with simple books my P4 read, I check their ability to read and translate the 20 common verbs. The vast majority in Isaan and I'm sure there is very little difference in Bangkok can't read for meaning pure and simple. would it be possible to run 2 courses, one for teaching higher levels and one for teaching Pratom. It is at Pratom level where the greatest crime is occuring. Kids l;earning English for 6 years and knowing about 20 words. Any thoughts.
???'s about the TEFL Ban Phe course.... After reading this thread, it seems that there is a difference between the traditional Ban Phe course and the "earn money and earn certification while teaching option." I was accepted into the 5 month program in Thailand starting in April 2008... Anyone completed this program? If so is the certification I earn the same as it would be if I just took the 4 week course? I am unsure if it is the right program for me, but it sounds like a wonderful opportunity. I am looking at getting certified and teaching in either Thailand or South Korea. Any TEFL grads have any advice or recommendations?
Well Bruce, if you want everyone to love and respect you, I'm afraid you've choosen the wrong profession.Its amazing how, as we grow, the small minority's hatred of us grows as well.
Do we mess up on occasion? Certainly. We are not perfect. Do some people (luckily also a small percentage) leave the course dissatisfied? Yes. But the vast majority of our students are happy or very happy with our course.
But the vocal minority have almost become frightening in their hatred. It is both frightening and confusing
Why not let others decide how successfull or unsuccessfull your course is or has been?
As the owner there I would expect you to say what you've said.
I have been reading this thread without really becomming involved, sort of a personal resolution.
To date I would sum it up thus:
Ban Phe TEFL International gets mixed reviews. Some people are obviously very happy with the results and think Dave and the fellows are the cat's ass, while others obviously have, and have expressed legitimate concerns suggesting that you might also sell a rat's ass to a blind man for a wedding ring.
So I would personally suggest that it is best to just accept that not everyone is going to be positive with their comments, and from your standpoint I would certainly encourage you to be less defensive in your posts.
Ban Phe and other similar instituions obviously has an important role to play in the Thai English Education system though I personally see a real downside to what some consider this "unholy alliance" between TEFL operators and certain folks within the Thai educational bureacracy. ( These "job placement' schemes associated with the courses I see as a real downside, for a number of reason which I won't go into)
So keep a stiff upper lip, obviously you have had many satisfied customers, and expect that a certain amount of do-do is probably going to continue to fly in your direction (that's life in the business world).
The feedback after course completion sounds like a good idea and good luck with that (Though I would chosen "graduate" rather "alumni". For a one month course using the term "alumni", though not incorrect, is let us say a little on the pretentious side). At least in my opinion.
Last edited by russellsimpson; 6th September 2007 at 20:32.
“America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.”
―
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Hello everyone. Some quick answers.
Dave is the lead trainer on every course in ban Phe. He is certainly the most qualified Teacher Trainer in Thailand and possibly one of the most qualified in the world.
Literacy in Pratom is certainly a problem. And actually that is one thing that Dave stresses in class (model language fully THEN elicit to the board). But for lower level pratom a different lesson model is necessary. But in four weeks we just need to focus on one area. Your earlier coments about phonics were good. But that would be another course altogether.
What we call the "Special Thai Project" results in the same certificate as the traditional course.
Russell, it is no the occasional Nelson's that bother me. But there is another website... Nevermind.
When I did the Ban Phe course they did not have the system where they place you in a job. In fact they concentrated on the course delivery and their noticeboad with vacancies was about the extent of job introductions...as well as being open to visits from local employers.
This job placement strategy started last year I think. I have not spoken to Bruce since I left Ban Phe so I cannot speak on his reasons for starting the new scheme.
What I do know...and Bangkok Phil has alluded to this...is that the market is very tight for schools looking for good TEFLers. To the extent that some schools are in big trouble and risk their programs collapsing.
Thai schools with a farang to do the screening have an advantage over those who have to rely on local staff prone to being deceived by people who claim to be what they are not...qualified natives.
Bruce is businessman, and good on him for it. I think he has seen a market where he can guarantee a Thai school a farang that at least TEFL Ban Phe has spent a month watching.
That situation is to the benefit of the Thai school and the newbie who knows nothing of Thailand and doesn't want to run up miles on slow buses finding out.
However for a newbie who is a little more adventurous they will find many schools on Ajarn.com who will welcome their application.
I ended up in Thailand after first looking at teaching jobs in England. Through a link to a link I ended up on Ajarn.com, found the link to TEFL International Ban Phe, signed up to have a look at he place spent 2 weekends and 2 weeks after the course checking out jobs on Ajarn.com... and here I am reasonably happy a couple of years later.
I hope that explains some options to the newbies.
Chaing Mai University (120-hour TEFL Certificate)
Anyone ever gone through this one?
Looks like the school is pumping a pile of cash into it. Nice campus. New facilities, pool, pretty girls...
But how's the class? Is it Thai-easy? Or ligit?
I walked the campus once. Beautiful.
Bruce, whats frightening and confusing....that some people have different opinions of your organization than the generally happier than heck opinion generally shown here? Could you explain that please? Who is frightening you...why are you confused? Tell us, please!
Also, you mentioned another website....why is it a problem? Just wondering,since you mentioned it. It might be edifying for the people, both past and future customers that may read this thread to know what you alluded to.
Just wondering!!!
The course looks like good value, and most people seem to have no complaints. I am a bit of an old duffer/workhorse/bah humbugger who thinks that everything is too easy these days (sigh), so I was heartened to see that trainees have to design, manufacture and use four hours (worth) of training aids. If you end up teaching in the jungle, with no CDs/books, you will have some idea, at least......
It looks as though the cert. course plus on-site hotel is only 100usd more than the cert course alone, 100 bucks for four weeks? That's cheap. Is the hotel nasty?
On the main website for TEFL Int (Global) which has the link to Ban Phe, it states that TEFL Int is NOT A PROFIT-MAKING ORGANISATION. Very noble, very altruistic! Why is it that people on here seem to think that the owner makes money? It says that the organisation is not-for-profit. Is it a charity or a foundation? From the look of the website, there are many locations, so locally it may be a franchise. Is it a charitable franchise? If it is something like that, it may not need a Thai partner on the team. It may not need to declare and pay company tax, or employ Thai people. I am thinking of opening a similar operation, and would be grateful for any tips. Genuinely.
PEd
I'm betting silence will soon envelop this thread......
remember -- charity begins at home. isnt that right, bruce?
MDD, what did TI tell you? Did you ask?
My guess, and this is just my opinion...no difference, at least to the Thais here that might hire you. What do the Thai school admins know about TI curriculum? They would understand the TEFL, but them understanding the differences in the courses...no way!
Posting Permissions
LinkBack URL
About LinkBacks
Bookmarks