9/11 Redux - Page 10 - Ajarn Forum

rowena the shrew · 18th April 2008, 13:02

They can't even agree as to who killed President Kenedy,who Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby represented, what chance of truth emerging from the 9/11 debacle ?

George Bush can't even read to a class of kids and indeed Bush didn't react very quickly to the attack.Truth from Bush, more hope of flogging pigs to the Arabs at Mecca than the truth emerging from 9-11.

hvc · 18th April 2008, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by keeshou

I'll agree with the extreme possability that the conditions weren't the best to meet the kind of compresion that exists in a jet engine and I wasn't stating that. I was simply commenting on the FACT that was stated where we were told that jet fuel could not reach over 1000 degrees with an air only mixture. I'm not trying to prove anything, just trying to get the facts correctly stated.

Great! We can agree on something. Jet fuel can reach higher temps than 1kC but only under pressurised conditions. Nature doesn't produce those conditions, they're man-made. The conditions are similar to 'why are there no spark plugs in a diesel engine'? but it's running anyway -> self combustion due to pressure.

Farangrakthai · 18th April 2008, 15:19

haven't posted in a while, have been fuc%$ing with the mafia elite in America

and working on a masters degree, though will be returning to Thailand soon. b.t.w. there are powerful people around the world who protect truth tellers, I only know this from innuendo, sounds crazy I know.

here are my favorite internet videos about 911:

YouTube - John F Kennedy speech on the dangers of secret societies
YouTube - 1961 speech Eisenhower Warns us of New World Order
YouTube - Fox News : 911 The Israeli Connection
YouTube - Arab League - Death Star
YouTube - Immortal Technique - Freedom of Speech Lyrics
YouTube - Bush knocked down the towers??????
YouTube - Ron Paul : Don't tread on me

9/11 We Know - Watch 911 Mysteries Part 1: Demolitions (1 of 3)

9/11 We Know - Watch 911 Mysteries Part 1: Demolitions (2 of 3)

9/11 We Know - Watch 911 Mysteries Part 1: Demolitions (3 of 3)

Scholars For 9/11 Truth

WHATREALLYHAPPENED.COM

--------------------------------

to those who believe the official conspiracy theory, do you believe that a bunch of Muslims who trained to fly small planes at a CIA run airport in Florida

http://www.rense.com/general33/dissc.htm

were able to fly the big planes into the world trade center? These guys had been partying it up in go go bars in Florida and met with that d.c. lobbyist (Abramoff) on his gabbling boat weeks before. so they were suicide bombers who left their passports in their cars or dropped to the ground from the planes?

http://www.madcowprod.com/06202005.html

agree with Zazel's previous post, he pretty much sums up the elite mafia

Re: elite mafia: red vs. blue team

Quote:

The elite mafia is a worldwide phenomenon whose members go by several names: red team, blue team, illuminati, freemasons, the kaiser, the pope, the tzar, communists, socialists, democrats, federales, Halliburton, tongs, yakuza, multinational corporations, hell's angels, the queen, etc. Names are not important. What is important is that non-participants recognize them for who they are.

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and b.t.w. as we know 5-10% of the American population owns 90% of it's wealth and it's worse in most other countries. This elite mafia does not care about the environment and poverty around the world. they only care about "grabbing" what they can and that's what they teach to those whom they initiate ("gangster" teenagers and young elite of the powerful families) of the divide and conquer game "blue team (collecting dirt on people to be used to black mail them rather than whistle blowing) and the red team (having immunity from the law to be a mover and shaker to do everything from dealing large quantities of dope to running corporations)

the "intelligence" agencies of America, England and Israel were obviously involved and when 911 and the London attacks happened, "practice tests" were going on at the exact same time to pretend that what was happening was not real, to confuse those trying to protect the public.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=foYspq3iqDw

http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/9_11_facts.html

http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/viewtopic.php?t=1388

I'm no Marxist about the unequal distribution of income, though think that free trade should be fair trade (with labor and environmental laws) and America should be spending the hundreds of billions to 1 trillion every year on having the best job training and education in the world for the American people, along with a 21st century transportation system and access to healthcare for the poor

rather than the taxpayers' money being used by the evil "military industrial complex"

and the next hopefully democratic administration should sign up to the international court (most countries have though America and Israel are afraid that they will be tried) and then there will be a possibility that the neo-cons will be convicted of war crimes.

the positive side of teaching the young how to be good blue/red team members is that they learn how to be smooth, the negative side is that they learn how to be smooth.

just some random, drunken thoughts on the elite mafia who pulled off 911.

hvc · 18th April 2008, 15:51

Welcome back

How does this sound?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farangrakthai

and b.t.w. as we know 5-10% of the Thai population owns 90% of it's wealth and it's worse in most other countries. This elite mafia does not care about the environment and poverty around the world. they only care about "grabbing" what they can and that's what they teach to those whom they initiate ("gangster" teenagers and young elite of the powerful families) of the divide and conquer game "blue team (collecting dirt on people to be used to black mail them rather than whisteblowing) and the red team (having immmuinty from the law to be a mover and shaker to do everything from dealing large quanties of dope to running corporations)

keeshou · 18th April 2008, 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farangrakthai

The elite mafia is a worldwide phenomenon whose members go by several names: red team, blue team, illuminati, freemasons, the kaiser, the pope, the tzar, communists, socialists, democrats, federales, Halliburton, tongs, yakuza, multinational corporations, hell's angels, the queen, etc. Names are not important. What is important is that non-participants recognize them for who they are.

Right...

Don't forget the Mickey Mouse Club.

I think Britney is the Devil incarnate.

Larkinny · 18th April 2008, 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by bet

You can't compare the combustion temperature of fuel in a jet engine with the same fuel burning in air at atmospheric pressure. A jet engine burns fuel at enormous partial pressures of oxygen, completely different from fuel burning at atmospheric pressure.

That's what I've been trying to get him to understand all along.
-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by keeshou

One of those differences is that a controlled combustion isn't looking to create the greatest heat, just the most efficient use of the fuel.

But your experts flat out said that it was impossible for Jet Fuel and a regular air mixture to reach the temperatures needed to melt steel and that is wrong

No where in that quote did your "experts" ever mention a controlled or uncontrolled combustion. This was stated as an across the board "FACT", which I've proven is wrong and you now want to dance around that detail.

Larkinny, if you wonder why not too many people take these CT theories too seriously, it's exactly for the reason I've just shown you. Even when a fact is disproved or a detail that is the lynch-pin of a premise is faulted, instead of just owning up to this discrepancy you start trying to buttress the misinformation with more conditions, such as the fire wasn't controlled.

You whole post ignores what I just gave you about NIST, where they said the temperatures didn't get that high.

keeshou · 18th April 2008, 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larkinny

I just gave you about NIST, where they said the temperatures didn't get that high.

So now the NIST report is accurate? Why didn't you say that?

So that means you feel the NIST have the correct answers and are not adjusting information, is that what we are supposed to conclude from your quoting them as an accurate source?

Farangrakthai · 19th April 2008, 12:03

What would the dogs have found?

Heightened Security Alert Had Just Been Lifted -- Newsday.com

Heightened Security Alert Had Just Been Lifted
By Curtis L. Taylor and Sean Gardiner | STAFF WRITERS
September 12, 2001
The WorldTradeCenter was destroyed just days after a heightened security alert was lifted at the landmark 110-story towers, security personnel said yesterday.

Daria Coard, 37, a guard at Tower One, said the security detail had been working 12-hour shifts for the past two weeks because of numerous phone threats. But on Thursday, bomb-sniffing dogs were abruptly removed.

keeshou · 19th April 2008, 17:03

This is the point in the thread where Larkinny will wait until enough others have posted to ignore the fact that he has given credence to the NIST report.

He will now spend all his time informing us about the dangers of Jewish people until he feels it's safe to come back to this thread without the fear that someone will label him a proponent of the NIST, which he is.

Farangrakthai · 20th April 2008, 10:03

US Congressman says Jews are behind war against Iraq

The JEWS who Run Bush and the USA

Regarding the danger of Jews, of course, one can't stereotype the jews as a race. In fact, a vast majority of Jews in America are liberal and anti-war and stand against most of what the neo-cons stand for. The Zionists on the other hand do have way too much influence over the business and government of America. They are hooked up with the Military Inudustrial Mafia and the Christian Zionists, like Hagee, etc.

The Clean Break paper started the whole course of what America is on now, which led to PNAC which called for a new pearl Harbor and now as Netanyahoo says Americans see the world through Israel's eyes. Mission accomplished. Before 911, when Jimmy Carter went to talk with the Israelis and the Palestinians, American opinion would support peace efforts, now Americans call him a traitor for talking with the evil doers, as it were.

Before 911, when Shimon Peres went on CNN or before the U.N. the world would say why is Israel building more settlements in the west bank or why won't Israel recognize a Palstinian State on pre-1967 borders, which the Saudis propose and the Palestinians support, even the Hamas leader in Syria said he would agree to land for peace. peace being 100 year stopping of conflict. so the most radical faction of the Palestinians agrees to it and of course after after there is peace and prosperity in a new Palestinian state, after a few years or decades the ugly, brutal conflict will be a thing of history.

But, those who have followed the middle east conflict for a while know that Israel does not wish to give up land for peace and would rather that Americans die in the thousands rather than Israel giving up the land for peace

Just my opinion.

esoteric1 · 20th April 2008, 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farangrakthai

In fact, a vast majority of Jews in America are liberal and anti-war and stand against most of what the neo-cons stand for.

This is an encouraging sign:

J Street

Quote:

J Street is the political arm of the pro-Israel, pro-peace movement. We seek to change the direction of American policy in the Middle East and to broaden the public and policy debate in the U.S. about the Middle East. We support strong American leadership to end the Arab-Israeli and Palestinian-Israeli conflicts peacefully and diplomatically...

don't have a link for this article on "J Street" as I got it in an email:

Quote:

Israel Lobby Watch
New Jewish lobby seeks to redefine "pro-Israel"
Jim Lobe, The Electronic Intifada, 17 April 2008

WASHINGTON, 15 April (IPS) - A new group of prominent US Jews who believe that the so-called "Israel Lobby" has been dominated for too long by neo-conservatives and other Likud-oriented hawks has launched a new organization to help fund political candidates who favor a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and a stronger US role in achieving it.

Almost two years in the making, the "J Street" project plans to spend some 1.5 million dollars -- about half of which has been pledged to date -- in its first year of operation, a portion of which will go to supporting half a dozen Congressional campaigns for candidates who share its pro-peace and pro-Israel views.

"For too long, the loudest American voices on Israel have come from the far right," noted Jeremy Ben-Ami, a founder and director of both J Street and its political-action affiliate, JStreetPac.

"Those voices have claimed that the only way to be pro-Israel is to support military responses to political problems, to refuse to engage one's adversaries in dialogue and to put off the day of reckoning when hard compromises will be required to achieve a peaceful and secure future for Israel and the entire Middle East," he told reporters via teleconference Tuesday.

"These are not the kind of smart, tough views that serve the long-term interests of the state of Israel, of the United States -- or frankly, the American Jewish community," he added.

The new project has been endorsed by some two dozen prominent Israelis, including three former directors of Israel's foreign ministry, a former chief of the Israel Defense Forces General Staff, a former commander of the Israeli air force and several other top former top military and intelligence officers.

"Now more than ever, true friendship requires strong American leadership and engagement to move the sides toward a comprehensive two-state solution," the Israeli leaders wrote in a letter to J Street's founders. "With time running out, business-as-usual will not do."

The launch of the new group, which will be led by an advisory council of 100 prominent US Jewish leaders and philanthropists, is aimed primarily at challenging the long-standing dominance of several major Jewish lobby organizations, particularly the powerful American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), whose leadership has generally opposed substantial Israeli concessions in negotiations with Palestinians and Israel's other Arab neighbors.

AIPAC, which is widely seen as Washington's most powerful foreign policy lobby, has forged strong ties with both Democrats and Republicans on Capitol Hill where it has long claimed to represent the foreign policy views of the vast majority of US Jews.
Although Jews make up only about two percent of the US population, they provide up to 40 percent of total campaign contributions for Democratic candidates and up to 20 percent for Republican candidates.

AIPAC has also cultivated alliances with prominent right-wing Christian Zionists, such as John Hagee, the Texas televangelist who keynoted AIPAC's annual convention last year. Among other positions, Hagee has repeatedly denounced any consideration by the Israeli government to giving up parts of Jerusalem as part of any peace settlement with the Palestinians. He has also urged President George W. Bush to attack Iran.

Those alliances have created growing discomfort within the larger US Jewish community which, in any event, tends to hold less hawkish views about Israel and its relations with its neighbors than those urged by AIPAC and other more-rightwing national Jewish institutions, according to recent surveys of Jewish opinion by the American Jewish Committee.

Indeed, earlier this month, Eric Yoffie, the president of the influential Union of Reform Judaism, called on Jews to disassociate themselves from Hagee and his organization, Christians United for Israel (CUFI). Several days later, seven past chairmen of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations, another major national group whose leadership has moved increasingly to the right, defended Hagee as a "true friend of Israel" and CUFI as "among the strongest supporters of Israel in the United States" in a letter to The New York Times.

Founders of J Street, however, clearly question the notion that AIPAC, CUFI, and other organizations that oppose substantial territorial or other concessions by Israel as part of any peace process are indeed strong supporters of Israel, particularly at a time when most experts say the chances for a two-state solution that would preserve Israel as a Jewish and democratic state are diminishing.

"For the sake of Israel, the United States and the world, it is time for American political discourse to re-engage with reality," wrote Ben-Ami, whose grandparents were among the founders of Tel Aviv and whose father was a militant in the right-wing Revisionist Movement, in a column published Tuesday by the Jewish national daily, The Forward.

"Voices of reason need to reclaim what it means to be pro-Israel and to establish in American political discourse that Israel's core security interest is to achieve a negotiated two-state solution and to define once and for all permanent, internationally-recognized borders."

"We need to have a much more robust discussion in this country about what it means to be pro-Israel," said Victor Kovner, a former Corporation Counsel of New York City and a member of the group's advisory council.

"Many of us have been frustrated to say the least at the presumption held by so many ... that, because we are active in the Jewish community, we are somehow supportive of AIPAC and those who have pursued right-wing agendas. I don't support AIPAC; I support a different vision of the Middle East, and, in creating J Street, I think we will make that position clear."

In its policy positions, J Street calls for territorial compromises with the Palestinians based largely on the 1967 borders with reciprocal land swaps and the division of Jerusalem. The group also favors strong US support for Israeli-Syrian peace negotiations and direct, high-level US talks with Iran to address all issues of mutual concern, including ending Iranian opposition to Arab-Israeli peace efforts and its support for armed anti-Israel groups in Palestine and Lebanon.

"There is no way that Israel as a Sparta is going to be in the interests of the Israeli or American people," noted Sam Lewis, a former US ambassador to Israel who helped negotiate the 1978 Camp David Accords with Egypt under the Jimmy Carter administration.

"The threats to Israel are real, but the way to go after those threats is to bring about different kinds of dialogue and negotiation than we've seen recently," said Lewis, who also serves on the J Street's advisory council.

While the group's goal of 1.5 million dollars in the first year is a fraction of AIPAC's 50-million-dollar annual budget, supporters stressed that this is just the beginning.
"Most Americans and most Jewish Americans support the two-state solution and are tired of having a Likud-oriented lobby speaking in their name," said M.J. Rosenberg, an analyst at the Israel Policy Forum. "Let's see what happens but I think this could be big."

All rights reserved, IPS - Inter Press Service (2008). Total or partial publication, retransmission or sale forbidden.

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and stumbled onto this:

media monarchy: norad releases mother lode of 9/11 tapes
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Clearly the simulations 'coincidentally' going that day really fogged things up.

9/11 Live: The NORAD Tapes

9/11 Live: The NORAD Tapes: Politics & Power: vanityfair.com

Quote:

How did the U.S. Air Force respond on 9/11? Could it have shot down United 93, as conspiracy theorists claim? Obtaining 30 hours of never-before-released tapes from the control room of NORAD's Northeast head-quarters, the author reconstructs the chaotic military history of that day—and the Pentagon's apparent attempt to cover it up.

this article dated 2006, don't know how I missed it? not sure if these are the same tapes spoke of from the "Media Monarchy" blog post above.

esoteric1 · 21st April 2008, 01:32

I do know for sure that an FAA manager destroyed some tape of flight controllers from that day.

Controllers' 9/11 Tape Destroyed, Report Says (washingtonpost.com)

Quote:

It is unclear what was on the tape, but its destruction did little to dispel the appearance that government officials withheld evidence, the report by the Department of Transportation inspector general said.