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Thread: Al Jazeera vs CNN. What people in the USA don't see.

  1. #76
    Regular User Golani has a reputation beyond repute Golani has a reputation beyond repute Golani has a reputation beyond repute Golani has a reputation beyond repute Golani has a reputation beyond repute Golani has a reputation beyond repute Golani has a reputation beyond repute Golani has a reputation beyond repute Golani has a reputation beyond repute Golani has a reputation beyond repute Golani has a reputation beyond repute Golani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Computer View Post
    That's what I was trying to say in my own clumsy way. Thanks!

    Golani,

    you just sound like someone who watches cnn and sees things black and white. no one here can really be called the aggressor or victim. they are both in the wrong and this war is just making the violence worse. kids are dying yet the rockets haven't stopped. they are accomplishing nothing but turn angry young guys in gaza into more enemies to replace the ones they just killed.
    I hate to inform you that I do not watch CNN. While I agree with you assessment that the Mideast conflict is not "black and white", I question your motivation for creating such an inflammatory post on the forums. Where was your voice at when Hamas was raining down hundreds of missiles onto Israel? Why is the world silent when Hamas, or some other group, repeatedly attack Israel but are very vocal when Israel responds? Does not Israel have a right to defend itself?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Computer View Post
    If Israel and the USA really tries everything possible as far as diplomacy they would not be where they are today, which is nowhere and accomplishing nothing.
    Do you know why neither Israel or the USA will negotiate with Hamas?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Computer View Post
    The aggression will not stop and the rockets will not stop just because Israel invades gaza.
    Strange, I just read a story from Haaretz that Hamas was beginning to desert and refuse to fight.





    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Computer View Post
    Even if they turn Gaza into a parking lot as you say, rockets will still be fired from somewhere else.

    I take it that you do not follow Israeli politics to much. There will be an election in February to determine who the next prime minister will be. The leading candidate is Benjamin Natanyahu (Bibby) who is extremely conservative. Ehud Barack (the current Defense Minister) and Livni (cannot remember her first name but she is the Foreign Minister) are vying for the job. Barack and Livni are in a very tough position. The Israeli public is demanding action against Hamas and if they do not do something then Bibby will be the next Prime Minister.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Computer View Post

    Obviously Hamas will not agree to a ceasefire that, in their view, doesn't benefit them and it's being "brokered" by people they hate and don't have their best interest in mind (in their view). Egypt is involved in all this. Israel and Egypt, 2 countries that are the borders of Gaza which has been turned into a really big refugee camp cut off from the rest of the world, are brokering a ceasefire. Obviously Hamas has an issue with it.
    I agree with you. Likewise Israel will not back down because of the political ramifications that I mentioned before and because they cannot afford to let Hamas appear victorious.
    Last edited by Golani; 11th January 2009 at 07:18.

  2. #77
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    Re: Al Jazeera vs CNN. What people in the USA don't see.

    [quote=THX 1133;1132625]
    Quote Originally Posted by kingdomcome View Post
    "A hundred years ago you were living in tents out here in the desert chopping each other's heads off and that's where you'll be in another hundred years."

    That's a quote from the movie Syriana (Matt Damon); you should give the credit for that! Your bad!
    The fact that I put in QUOTATION MARKS, means that it's not my quote, numpty.

  3. #78
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    Re: Al Jazeera vs CNN. What people in the USA don't see.


    How Many Divisions?
    10/01/09

    by Uri Avnery (left winged peace activist, and war hero)

    Some time before that, a similar crime was committed in England. The Churchill gang hid among the population of London, misusing the millions of citizens as a human shield. The Germans were compelled to send their Luftwaffe and reluctantly reduce the city to ruins. They called it the Blitz.
    This is the description that would now appear in the history books – if the Germans had won the war.
    Absurd? No more than the daily descriptions in our media, which are being repeated ad nauseam: the Hamas terrorists use the inhabitants of Gaza as “hostages” and exploit the women and children as “human shields”, they leave us no alternative but to carry out massive bombardments, in which, to our deep sorrow, thousands of women, children and unarmed men are killed and injured.

    IN THIS WAR, as in any modern war, propaganda plays a major role. The disparity between the forces, between the Israeli army - with its airplanes, gunships, drones, warships, artillery and tanks - and the few thousand lightly armed Hamas fighters, is one to a thousand, perhaps one to a million. In the political arena the gap between them is even wider. But in the propaganda war, the gap is almost infinite.

    Almost all the Western media initially repeated the official Israeli propaganda line. They almost entirely ignored the Palestinian side of the story, not to mention the daily demonstrations of the Israeli peace camp. The rationale of the Israeli government (“The state must defend its citizens against the Qassam rockets”) has been accepted as the whole truth. The view from the other side, that the Qassams are a retaliation for the siege that starves the one and a half million inhabitants of the Gaza Strip, was not mentioned at all.
    Only when the horrible scenes from Gaza started to appear on Western TV screens, did world public opinion gradually begin to change.

    True, Western and Israeli TV channels showed only a tiny fraction of the dreadful events that appear 24 hours every day on Aljazeera’s Arabic channel, but one picture of a dead baby in the arms of its terrified father is more powerful than a thousand elegantly constructed sentences from the Israeli army spokesman. And that is what is decisive, in the end.

    War – every war – is the realm of lies. Whether called propaganda or psychological warfare, everybody accepts that it is right to lie for one’s country. Anyone who speaks the truth runs the risk of being branded a traitor.

    The trouble is that propaganda is most convincing for the propagandist himself. And after you convince yourself that a lie is the truth and falsification reality, you can no longer make rational decisions.
    An example of this process surrounds the most shocking atrocity of this war so far: the shelling of the UN Fakhura school in Jabaliya refugee camp.

    Immediately after the incident became known throughout the world, the army “revealed” that Hamas fighters had been firing mortars from near the school entrance. As proof they released an aerial photo which indeed showed the school and the mortar. But within a short time the official army liar had to admit that the photo was more than a year old. In brief: a falsification.

    Every bombed mosque instantly became a Hamas base, every apartment building an arms cache, every school a terror command post, every civilian government building a “symbol of Hamas rule”. Thus the Israeli army retained its purity as the “most moral army in the world”.

    THE TRUTH is that the atrocities are a direct result of the war plan. This reflects the personality of Ehud Barak – a man whose way of thinking and actions are clear evidence of what is called “moral insanity”, a sociopathic disorder.

    The real aim (apart from gaining seats in the coming elections) is to terminate the rule of Hamas in the Gaza Strip. In the imagination of the planners, Hamas is an invader which has gained control of a foreign country. The reality is, of course, entirely different.

    The Hamas movement won the majority of the votes in the eminently democratic elections that took place in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip. It won because the Palestinians had come to the conclusion that Fatah’s peaceful approach had gained precisely nothing from Israel - neither a freeze of the settlements, nor release of the prisoners, nor any significant steps toward ending the occupation and creating the Palestinian state. Hamas is deeply rooted in the population – not only as a resistance movement fighting the foreign occupier, like the Irgun and the Stern Group in the past – but also as a political and religious body that provides social, educational and medical services.

    From the point of view of the population, the Hamas fighters are not a foreign body, but the sons of every family in the Strip and the other Palestinian regions. They do not “hide behind the population”, the population views them as their only defenders.

    This consideration played an especially important role because the entire war is a part of the election campaign. Ehud Barak, who gained in the polls in the first days of the war, knew that his ratings would collapse if pictures of dead soldiers filled the TV screens.

    Therefore, a new doctrine was applied: to avoid losses among our soldiers by the total destruction of everything in their path. The planners were not only ready to kill 80 Palestinians to save one Israeli soldier, as has happened, but also 800. The avoidance of casualties on our side is the overriding commandment, which is causing record numbers of civilian casualties on the other side.

    That means the conscious choice of an especially cruel kind of warfare – and that has been its Achilles heel.
    A person without imagination, like Barak (his election slogan: “Not a Nice Guy, but a Leader”) cannot imagine how decent people around the world react to actions like the killing of whole extended families, the destruction of houses over the heads of their inhabitants, the rows of boys and girls in white shrouds ready for burial, the reports about people bleeding to death over days because ambulances are not allowed to reach them, the killing of doctors and medics on their way to save lives, the killing of UN drivers bringing in food. The pictures of the hospitals, with the dead, the dying and the injured lying together on the floor for lack of space, have shocked the world. No argument has any force next to an image of a wounded little girl lying on the floor, twisting with pain and crying out: “Mama! Mama!”

    The planners thought that they could stop the world from seeing these images by forcibly preventing press coverage. The Israeli journalists, to their shame, agreed to be satisfied with the reports and photos provided by the Army Spokesman, as if they were authentic news, while they themselves remained miles away from the events. Foreign journalists were not allowed in either, until they protested and were taken for quick tours in selected and supervised groups. But in a modern war, such a sterile manufactured view cannot completely exclude all others – the cameras are inside the strip, in the middle of the hell, and cannot be controlled. Aljazeera broadcasts the pictures around the clock and reaches every home.

    THE BATTLE for the TV screen is one of the decisive battles of the war.

    Hundreds of millions of Arabs from Mauritania to Iraq, more than a billion Muslims from Nigeria to Indonesia see the pictures and are horrified. This has a strong impact on the war. Many of the viewers see the rulers of Egypt, Jordan and the Palestinian Authority as collaborators with Israel in carrying out these atrocities against their Palestinian brothers.

    The security services of the Arab regimes are registering a dangerous ferment among the peoples. Hosny Mubarak, the most exposed Arab leader because of his closing of the Rafah crossing in the face of terrified refugees, started to pressure the decision-makers in Washington, who until that time had blocked all calls for a cease-fire. These began to understand the menace to vital American interests in the Arab world and suddenly changed their attitude – causing consternation among the complacent Israeli diplomats.

    People with moral insanity cannot really understand the motives of normal people and must guess their reactions. “How many divisions has the Pope?” Stalin sneered. “How many divisions have people of conscience?” Ehud Barak may well be asking.

    THE FAILURE to grasp the nature of Hamas has caused a failure to grasp the predictable results. Not only is Israel unable to win the war, Hamas cannot lose it.
    Even if the Israeli army were to succeed in killing every Hamas fighter to the last man, even then Hamas would win. The Hamas fighters would be seen as the paragons of the Arab nation, the heroes of the Palestinian people, models for emulation by every youngster in the Arab world. The West Bank would fall into the hands of Hamas like a ripe fruit, Fatah would drown in a sea of contempt, the Arab regimes would be threatened with collapse.

    If the war ends with Hamas still standing, bloodied but unvanquished, in face of the mighty Israeli military machine, it will look like a fantastic victory, a victory of mind over matter.

    What will be seared into the consciousness of the world will be the image of Israel as a blood-stained monster, ready at any moment to commit war crimes and not prepared to abide by any moral restraints. This will have severe consequences for our long-term future, our standing in the world, our chance of achieving peace and quiet.

    In the end, this war is a crime against ourselves too, a crime against the State of Israel.
    Uri Avnery's weekly english article
    Thank you

  4. #79
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    Re: Al Jazeera vs CNN. What people in the USA don't see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Golani View Post
    There was no "pre 67 borders" and you know it.
    well, since you think I should think that, you must be Xtrafresh, is that right? usually sock puppets are used to do funny windups or to express something that one doesn't wish to attach to an original nick. Which is it for you? or did you just happen upon this site for the first time? if you have an original nick but forgot the password, you can request it from admin, of course.

    If you're xtrafresh, you'll probably answer about an original nick by saying something like "I will say just like Israel's said, neither deny nor confirm" like your response to Israel having a secret WMD nuclear weapons program.

    Quote Originally Posted by Golani View Post
    Can you read Arabic or Hebrew? The best place that I can think of, in English, is the Palestinian Media Watch. Homepage: *link deleted*
    If you have an original nick, you could post a link and quote from Haaretz of a translation into English of what Saeb Erakat said or even the Jerusalem Post. Both papers regularly translate Hebrew and Arabic speeches into English, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Golani View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Farangrakthai View Post
    I think that the Saudi prince has addressed that issue:
    How gullible are you?
    regarding the Arab Peace Initiative, well, not saying saying that I'd be a good diplomat, but you certainly wouldn't as mentioned before, peace is only made between enemies, not friends and one cannot dwell on the past to make peace for the future

    If you're xtrafresh, I know you think that Gaza and the West Bank belong to Israel and Israel isn't required by international law to give it up. But, as already brought up on this thread, IYO, which is the best solution to the Israeli/Palestine conflict?

    1. Israel can be a Jewish and Democratic State and allow a Palestinian State on pre-1967 borders

    2. Israel can be a Democratic but not Jewish State and give all Palestinians citizenship of Israel, though, Palestinians will soon outnumber Jews, so it will no longer be Jewish

    3. Israel can be Jewish but not a Democratic State. a choice for racists who think Jews are superior to Arabs just like in apartheid South Africa where blacks didn't have any rights, just like the situation the Palestinians are in now and right wing Zionists actually propose to make permanent so that Palestinians live in three cantons in the west bank separated by Jewish settlements, fences and Israeli roads without having a state of their own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Golani View Post
    Do you know why neither Israel or the USA will negotiate with Hamas?
    it's being reported that the Obama admin will open back channels to negotiate with Hamas as the Arab Initiative cannot be implemented if the elected leaders of Gaza are not at the table.

    Arab Peace Initiative - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    In November 2008,
    The Sunday Times reported that American president-elect Barack Obama is going to support the plan, saying to Mahmoud Abbas during his July 2008 visit to the Middle East that "The Israelis would be crazy not to accept this initiative. It would give them peace with the Muslim world from Indonesia to Morocco."[30]

    Palestinian negotiator
    Saeb Erekat has also offered his full support of the Arab Peace Initiative, and has urged Israel to support it on several occasions. Most recently, in statements that were published on October 19, 2008, Mr Erekat said that: "I think Israel should have [supported the Initiative] since 2002. It is the most strategic initiative that came from the Arab world since 1948," he said. "I urge them to revisit this initiative and to go with it because it will shorten the way to peace."[5]

    Support for the Arab Peace Plan was also expressed by
    Andre Azoulay, a Jewish adviser to Moroccan King Mohammed VI. On October 28, 2008, Mr Azoulay said at a conference in Tel Aviv that: "I am a Jew with a commitment," said Andre Azoulay. "I'm an Arab Jew. I advise the king of Morocco... The Arab mainstream sees Israel as the party responsible for preventing peace, not the Arabs. [...] [The Peace Plan] is something that the Israelis hoped for ten years ago. But who knows about it in Israel today? Who will take the initiative and explain it? The momentum will not last forever. This is a dangerous situation. Tomorrow something could happen in the West Bank and blow the whole deal, and we'll have to wait again." [8]
    Last edited by Farangrakthai; 11th January 2009 at 11:55.

  5. #80
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    Re: Al Jazeera vs CNN. What people in the USA don't see.

    The terms of Israeli-Palestinian peace are clear. They have been crystallized in thousands of hours of negotiations, conferences, meetings and conversations. They are:
    13.1 A sovereign and viable State of Palestine will be established side by side with the State of Israel.
    13.2 The border between the two states will be based on the pre-1967 Armistice Line (the “Green Line”). Insubstantial alterations can be arrived at by mutual agreement on an exchange of territories on a 1:1 basis.
    13.3 East Jerusalem, including the Haram-al-Sharif (“Temple Mount”) and all Arab neighborhoods will serve as the capital of Palestine. West Jerusalem, including the Western Wall and all Jewish neighborhoods, will serve as the capital of Israel. A joint municipal authority, based on equality, may be established by mutual consent to administer the city as one territorial unit.
    13.4 All Israeli settlements – except any which might be joined to Israel in the framework of a mutually agreed exchange of territories - will be evacuated (see 15 below).
    13.5 Israel will recognize in principle the right of the refugees to return. A Joint Commission for Truth and Reconciliation, composed of Palestinian, Israeli and international historians, will examine the events of 1948 and 1967 and determine who was responsible for what. Each individual refugee will be given the choice between (1) repatriation to the State of Palestine, (2) remaining where he/she is living now and receiving generous compensation, (3) returning to Israel and being resettled, (4) emigrating to any other country, with generous compensation. The number of refugees who will return to Israeli territory will be fixed by mutual agreement, it being understood that nothing will be done that materially alters the demographic composition of the Israeli population. The large funds needed for the implementation of this solution must be provided by the international community in the interest of world peace. This will save much of the money spent today on military expenditure and direct grants from the US.
    13.6 The West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip constitute one national unit. An extraterritorial connection (road, railway, tunnel or bridge) will connect the West Bank with the Gaza Strip.
    13.7 Israel and Syria will sign a peace agreement. Israel will withdraw to the pre-1967 line and all settlements on the Golan Heights will be dismantled. Syria will cease all anti-Israeli activities conducted directly or by proxy. The two parties will establish normal relations between them.
    13.8 In accordance with the Saudi Peace Initiative, all member states of the Arab League will recognize Israel and establish normal relations with it. Talks about a future Middle Eastern Union, on the model of the EU, possibly to include Turkey and Iran, may be considered.
    -14- Palestinian unity is essential for peace. Peace made with only one section of the people is worthless. The US will facilitate Palestinian reconciliation and the unification of Palestinian structures. To this end, the US will end its boycott of Hamas, which won the last elections, start a political dialogue with the movement and encourage Israel to do the same. The US will respect any result of democratic Palestinian elections.
    -15- The US will aid the government of Israel in confronting the settlement problem. As from now, settlers will be given one year to leave the occupied territories voluntarily in return for compensation that will allow them to build their homes in Israel proper. After that, all settlements – except those within any areas to be joined to Israel under the peace agreement - will be evacuated.
    -16- I suggest that you, as President of the United States, come to Israel and address the Israeli people personally, not only from the rostrum of the Knesset but also at a mass rally in Tel-Aviv’s Rabin Square. President Anwar Sadat of Egypt came to Israel in 1977, and, by addressing the Israeli people directly, completely changed their attitude towards peace with Egypt. At present, most Israelis feel insecure, uncertain and afraid of any daring peace initiative, partly because of a deep distrust of anything coming from the Arab side. Your personal intervention, at the critical moment, could literally do wonders in creating the psychological basis for peace.
    Uri Avnery's weekly english article
    Thank you

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    Re: Al Jazeera vs CNN. What people in the USA don't see.

    a Rasmussen opinion poll taken in the U.S. at the end of December. probably would get different figures now.

    full story at: Rasmussen Reports™: The most comprehensive public opinion coverage ever provided for a presidential election.

    Forty-four percent (44%) say Israel should have taken military action against the Palestinians, but 41% say it should have tried to find a diplomatic solution to the problems there, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey. Fifteen percent (15%) are undecided.

    Men are far more sympathetic to the Israelis than women. Fifty-six percent (56%) of men support Israel’s military action, compared to 34% of women.

    Sixty-two percent (62%) of Republicans back Israel’s decision to take military action against the Palestinians, but only half as many Democrats (31%) agree.

    Just over half of adults (51%) fear Israel’s actions will cause more terrorism against the United States, with 17% saying that is Very Likely to be the case. Nine percent (9%) believe that future terrorist attacks on America are not at all likely because of Israel’s attacks on Gaza this week.

    Sixty-six percent (66%) of adults say it is likely that the latest violence in the Gaza Strip will escalate into a more widespread war between Israel and the Arabs in the Middle East, including 30% who say it is Very Likely. Only three percent (3%) say it is not at all likely to have that effect.

  7. #82
    Regular User Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer's Avatar
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    Re: Al Jazeera vs CNN. What people in the USA don't see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Golani View Post
    I hate to inform you that I do not watch CNN. While I agree with you assessment that the Mideast conflict is not "black and white", I question your motivation for creating such an inflammatory post on the forums. Where was your voice at when Hamas was raining down hundreds of missiles onto Israel? Why is the world silent when Hamas, or some other group, repeatedly attack Israel but are very vocal when Israel responds? Does not Israel have a right to defend itself?
    I know. You've made the same points over and over again. I get you...Thanks for sharing.....again...

    How are my posts inflammatory? I am not "worked up" about anything. I don't live there. I just think they are BOTH wrong and fighting will only lead to more fighting.

    There's a thread in the International News Forum called "Why Hamas continues to initiate violence". You can go there and express your views about who is right and who is wrong and Israel's right to defend itself. This Thread is about the media.

    Anyway, back to topic!. This is an interesting blog from OBAMAers Dot Com - A Barack Obama Supporters Community Blog

    CNN vs Al Jazera coverage of Jewish Holocaust in Gaza - Interesting!

    Jan.04, 2009 in barack obama
    I keep flipping back and forth from CNN and Al Jazeera for the last week and i see one interesting distinction: I remember during South Osetian crisis where Georgia led by Jewish president Shakaasvili from New York invaded and got put back into their place by Russians, CNN did not mind showing wounded Georgian women and children. here in Jewish holocaust in Gaza however, CNN does not show images of injured women and children, they only show injured bearded men which could be passed on as fighters and when they show children they show the ones who don't seem any visible parts of the body blown of while if I flip back to Al Jazeera I see images of women and young children with missing body parts. and it is frustrating, because back in USA i did not have the Al Jazeera and I'm wondering how many more people are misled by CNN propaganda? or is showing injured civilians now the propaganda?

    Also, Al Jazeera is showing Israelis picknicking, boating, having fun. while others are demonstrating for their country with smiles on their faces.... and I wonder are those the same Jews that have tried to sell me the images of dead Germans from allied bombings of Drezden as 'poor Jews' and have outlawed denying of Jewish of Holocaust?

    and then of course I have a question, is what Jews have done for the last few month in Gaza, the blockade, the imprisonment of Palestinians, have these palestinians not been living in a concentration camp for the last several months?
    Last edited by Mr. Computer; 11th January 2009 at 14:33.

  8. #83
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    Re: Al Jazeera vs CNN. What people in the USA don't see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Computer View Post
    This is what this Thread is about actually.
    photos coming in from Gaza, not shown on CNN, of course.

    Following 28 December 2008 Palestinian rescue workers carried a wounded prisoner amidst the rubble of the main security compound and prison in Gaza City known as the Saraya. Israeli aircraft pounded Gaza for a second day on Sunday, increasing the death toll to nearly 300. Photo: Majed Hamdan/Associated Press
    Smoke rose at the site of an Israeli missile strike in the Rafah refugee camp in southern Gaza Strip. Photo: Eyad Baba/Associated Press
    A family fled the scene of a missile strike at Rafah. Over the past two days, Israeli jets have destroyed at least 30 targets in Gaza. Photo: Hatem Omar/MaanImages, via Associated Press

    Palestinian civilians ran for cover during an Israeli air strike in the Jabalia refugee camp. In the first two days of the operation Israeli jets destroyed at least 30 targets in Gaza. Photo: Mohammed Abed/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images


    Protesters threw stones at Israeli troops on the outskirts of Jerusalem. The continued strikes, which Israel said were in retaliation for sustained rocket fire from Gaza into its territory, unleashed a furious reaction across the Arab world, raising fears of greater instability in the region. Photo: Dan Balilty/Associated Press
    Palestinians clashed with Israeli border police near Shuafat. Photo: Ammar Awad/Reuters

    Palestinians gathered at the site of a Hamas security compound in Rafah. A shaky Egyptian-brokered truce between Israel and Hamas started to break down in early November. Photo: Hatem Omar/Associated Press


    A Palestinian father of five young girls who were killed in an Israeli air strike mourned as he held his wounded son. Photo: Mohammed Salem/Reuters


    Palestinian demonstrators threw stones at Israeli soldiers in the West Bank city of Hebron. Photo: Nayef Hashlamoun/Reuters


    Women shrieked as dozens of mutilated bodies were laid out on the pavement and in the lobby of Shifa Hospital so that family members could identify them. Photo: Abid Katib/Getty Images


    Israelis took cover during a rocket warning siren in the southern Israeli town of Ashkelon, where a rocket fired from Gaza killed a man and wounded seven on Monday. Photo: Tsafrir Abayov/Associated Press
    Last edited by Farangrakthai; 11th January 2009 at 14:40.

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    Re: Al Jazeera vs CNN. What people in the USA don't see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Farangrakthai View Post
    The continued strikes, which Israel said were in retaliation for sustained rocket fire from Gaza into its territory, unleashed a furious reaction across the Arab world, raising fears of greater instability in the region.
    Quote Originally Posted by Farangrakthai View Post
    Israelis took cover during a rocket warning siren in the southern Israeli town of Ashkelon, where a rocket fired from Gaza killed a man and wounded seven on Monday.
    I tried to say that but, according to Golani I was misinformed. He says "Hamas was beginning to desert and refusing to fight".

    What a fucking mess dude. They sure are making sure the children of their children keep on this never ending bullshit...Did you read that Blog I posted? I guess I am not the only one noticing the difference in news coverage.

    After all this, I will never read the story of Moses going to Egypt and the whole "let my people go" the same way again. Man, these people sure know how to hold a grudge.
    Last edited by Mr. Computer; 11th January 2009 at 14:49.

  10. #85
    Something Or Other... panhunger has a reputation beyond repute panhunger has a reputation beyond repute panhunger has a reputation beyond repute panhunger has a reputation beyond repute panhunger has a reputation beyond repute panhunger has a reputation beyond repute panhunger has a reputation beyond repute panhunger has a reputation beyond repute panhunger has a reputation beyond repute panhunger has a reputation beyond repute panhunger has a reputation beyond repute panhunger's Avatar
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    Re: Al Jazeera vs CNN. What people in the USA don't see.

    FRT, I fail to see the need to post all those photos. Are you trying to shock us in to changing our opinions? I think it's sad that there is a conflict. I think it's sad that people are dying. I think we just see the causes as being very different. It doesn't really matter in the end because there is not end in sight.

    Traveling with a friend in 02, I recall some armed dispute between Israel and one of its neighbors. Can't remember right now. There have been so many. Anyway, we were watching the tube and they were going on and on about possible solutions to the current fighting. My friend turned to me, a very apolitical type of guy who never spoke about political events, and he said, "when I was very young and there was fighting on the TV news in Israel, I asked my father what was going on to cause all that fighting. He said 'that! Don't pay any attention to that! That will never end.' He was right. It hasn't ended. It's been thirty years since he told me that. My father turned the channel. Now, I don't really think about it. I haven't thought about it ever, until traveling with you and you watching the news all the time. It seems that's all that's ever on the news these days."
    Last edited by panhunger; 11th January 2009 at 15:50.
    "Goddamn it Lord, bless oh ye this bacon..."

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  11. #86
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    Re: Al Jazeera vs CNN. What people in the USA don't see.

    Quote Originally Posted by panhunger View Post
    FRT, I fail to see the need to post all those photos.
    disagree and I didn't include the photos of dead children and the ones of the charred kids whose family were killed and their bodies and arms eaten off by dogs as Israel wouldn't allow the red cross access to the sites even under protest of the Red Cross.

    Quote Originally Posted by panhunger View Post
    It doesn't really matter in the end because there is not end in sight.
    as discussed on this thread, Fatah/PLO, the Arab world and even Hamas is ready for a "land for Peace" Arab Initiative where the Arab world recognizes Israel, though Israel has Jew-only, apartheid-like settlements in the west bank for two to three hundred thousand Jews and doesn't want to give up the land for peace.

    once Israel is pressured to accept the Arab Initiative, there can be peace between the Israelis and Arabs, IMO.
    Last edited by Farangrakthai; 11th January 2009 at 15:34.

  12. #87
    Regular User Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer's Avatar
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    Re: Al Jazeera vs CNN. What people in the USA don't see.

    Quote Originally Posted by panhunger View Post
    "when I was very young and there was fighting on the TV news in Israel, I asked my father what was going on to cause all that fighting. He said 'that! Don't pay any attention to that! That will never end.' He was right. It hasn't ended. It's been thirty years since he told me that. My father turned the channel. Now, I don't really think about. I haven't thought about it ever, until traveling with you and you watching the news all the time. It seems that's all that's ever on the news these days."
    AMEN!

    Something can be worked out among the big honchos I am sure. With the support of the international community. Without the fucking US of A taking sides.

    People though, that's another thing. There will always be bigots in this world.
    Last edited by Mr. Computer; 11th January 2009 at 15:55.

  13. #88
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    Re: Al Jazeera vs CNN. What people in the USA don't see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Computer View Post
    People though, that's another thing. There will always be bigots in this world.
    yep, should qualify that as peace between the governments of the Arab countries and Israel, just like Israel made peace with Jordan and Egypt after fighting wars.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Computer View Post
    What a fucking mess dude. They sure are making sure the children of their children keep on this never ending bullshit


    Palestinians in the West Bank burn an Israeli flag [AFP]
    Last edited by Farangrakthai; 11th January 2009 at 16:04. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  14. #89
    Regular User Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer has a reputation beyond repute Mr. Computer's Avatar
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    Re: Al Jazeera vs CNN. What people in the USA don't see.

    More about the Media Machine. I wonder if you can buy the NY Times in Israel? Would they even allow something like this in the news paper over there? Why can't they use the media to patch things up among the people?

    Article in the NY Times this time..

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/08/op...08khalidi.html

    What You Don’t Know About Gaza


    By: Rashid Khalidi, a professor of Arab studies at Columbia.

    ..........This war on the people of Gaza isn’t really about rockets. Nor is it about “restoring Israel’s deterrence,” as the Israeli press might have you believe. Far more revealing are the words of Moshe Yaalon, then the Israeli Defense Forces chief of staff, in 2002: “The Palestinians must be made to understand in the deepest recesses of their consciousness that they are a defeated people.”

  15. #90
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    Re: Al Jazeera vs CNN. What people in the USA don't see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Computer View Post
    Would they even allow something like this in the news paper over there?
    you'd be surprised that actually, as is said by pro Palestinian Freedom groups, the Israeli media is actually much more open for criticism of Israeli policies toward the Palestinians than the American media.

    during war, maybe not as open, but here is Israeli Gideon Livy who is a prominent critic of Israeli policies toward the Palestinians in Israel's Haaretz newspaper.

    never saw this kind of commentary/reporting in even the liberal media like the New York Times or CNN when the Yank/Brit "shock and awe" invasion/occupation of Iraq was beginning, not till many months or even more than a year later, actually, while Israeli media from day one were open to those who published articles critical of the Iraq war and even the neo-cons before most Americans ever heard the word neo-con.

    while, Judith Miller in the NYT was pumping out neo-con propaganda from Cheney's office.

    Gideon Levy / My hero of the Gaza war - Haaretz - Israel News

    11/01/2009

    My war hero likes to eat at Acre's famed Uri Burri restaurant. He thinks it's the best fish restaurant in the world, and told me as much yesterday from the porch of the central Gaza City office building from which he has broadcast every day for the past two weeks, noon and night, almost without rest.

    My war hero is Ayman Mohyeldin, the young correspondent for Al Jazeera English and the only foreign correspondent broadcasting during these awful days in a Gaza Strip closed off to the media. Al Jazeera English is not what you might think. It offers balanced, professional reporting from correspondents both in Sderot and Gaza. And Mohyeldin is the cherry on top of this journalistic cream. I wouldn't have needed him or his broadcasts if not for the Israeli stations' blackout of the fighting. Since discovering this wunderkind from America (his mother is from the West Bank city of Tul Karm and his father from Egypt), I have stopped frantically changing TV stations.

    Whoever recoils from the grotesque coverage by Channel 2's Roni Daniel is invited to tune in to this wise and considered broadcaster. Whoever recoils from our heroic tales, bias, whitewashed words, Rorschach images of bombing, IDF Spokesman-distributed photographs, propagandists' excuses, self-satisfied generals and half-truths is invited to tune in. Whoever wants to know what is really happening, not only of a postponed wedding in Sderot and a cat forgotten in Ashkelon. Watching is sometimes hard, bloodcurdlingly hard, but reality is no less hard right now.

    I have followed him throughout the war. Sporting a helmet and protective vest, and sometimes a Lacoste jacket, he stands on the roof, broadcasting in the most restrained tones, never getting excited or using flowery adjectives to describe what we're inflicting on Gaza, even when planes fly over him and bomb a house in the distance. Sometimes he crouches during a blast, his eyes perpetually glazed from fatigue, his face sometimes betraying helplessness.

    At age 29, he has already seen one war, in Iraq, but he says this war is more intense. He is frustrated that his broadcasts are carried virtually everywhere in the world except the United States, his own country, the place he thinks it is most important that these images from Gaza be seen.

    "At the end of the day, if there is one country that can have influence, it's the United States. It's frustrating to know you're not reaching the viewers you would like to," he told me this week from the roof. On Friday he finally came down, for safety's sake, after the Israel Defense Forces bombed a neighboring media center.

    Is he afraid? "I'd be lying if I said I don't feel fear, but my obligation is greater than the fear," he says.

    Nor does he have a single bad word to say about Israel. He says he would gladly return to visit - after all, he's got friends here. We even set a dinner date at his favorite restaurant, for 6 P.M. after the war.
    A big shudder on the wing - Haaretz - Israel News

    The legitimacy and understanding extended to Israel melt away amid the pictures of killing and ruin. Accusations of war crimes are already being bandied about in Israel. This war needs to move immediately to the diplomatic track and agreements that will end the fantasies and delusions of both sides.
    Jailing journalists - Haaretz - Israel News

    Instead of direct and independent reporting, the Israeli public is receiving partial
    coverage that has passed through the monitoring and filtration of the military censors and IDF press officers.

    In the age of the information superhighway, Israel and the world still see the same images and hear the same voices broadcast on most of the foreign television stations. The IDF's manipulations of the media, which willingly cooperates, may be good for the army, but it's very bad for Israeli democracy.
    Last edited by Farangrakthai; 11th January 2009 at 17:52. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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