Thread: Al Jazeera vs CNN. What people in the USA don't see.

Originally Posted by Golani

If the conflict is over the size of Israel, it might be possible to solve it. If over the existence of Israel, it cannot be solved.

like I mentioned before, one cannot dwell on the past to make peace for the future. All Arab countries are offering Israel recognition in exchange for a Palestinian State on pre-1967 borders and as you know, Fatah/PLO has agreed to that for more than a decade now and the PLO/Fatah are a national liberation movement not connected to Al-Queada or the Muslim brotherhood, at least, not yet.

After Israel's latest war on Gaza, the west bank Palestinians probably aren't too happy with the PLO for being "peace partners" with Israel though not yet obtaining a Palestinian State.

Originally Posted by Golani

Sheikh Prof. Abdul Hadi Palazzi (head of the largest Mosque in the world)

well, it sounds like he is as loony as the right wing Zionists and Christians who think God gave the west bank to Israel. He mentions that if the west bank Palestinian leadership is moderate (which it is now) then making the Palestinians in the West Bank "Arab Israelis" is his preference (one logical solution). Though, his other suggestion is making the west bank part of Israel and the Palestinians who live there citizens of Jordan, which doesn't make sense and won't solve the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, IMO.

Israel News : A different kind of Muslim

Abdul Hadi Palazzi

If they had let Arafat die in Tunis and never permitted his close associates to come back, terrorism would have been defeated within 10 or 20 years, and it would have been possible for a new leadership to emerge in favor of some kind of political agreement to grant the residents of the West Bank their rights as a foreign minority living in Israel.

Sheikhing up the real Islam | In Jerusalem | Jerusalem Post

Palazzi believes that Israel exists by "divine right" and that the Koran clearly states (Sura 5:21) that God granted the Land of Israel to the Children of Israel and ordered them to settle there. In addition, it is predicted that before the end of days, God will bring the Children of Israel to retake possession of the Land, gathering them from the different countries and nations (Sura 17:104).

Israel needs a leader who is able to say that negotiations with the PLO are not a solution, who says that we oppose the creation of a Palestinian state now and in the future, and that we will establish administrative autonomy [with Jordanian citizenship] for Arab inhabitants of the West Bank.

Israpundit Interview With Shaykh Prof. Abdul Hadi Palazzi

In my opinion, the area of Palestine is already divided into a Jewish Palestinian State (Israel) and an Arab Palestinian State (Jordan).

I think that a valid alternative to both Oslo and the Road Map is the one proposed by the Israeli Tourism Minister Benny Elon: annexation of Judea, Samaria and Gaza, while those Arabs who continue to live in those areas will be citizens of Jordan, administered by a local government.

Originally Posted by Golani

Sheikh Prof. Abdul Hadi Palazzi (head of the largest Mosque in the world)

I'm sorry dude, but any Italian guy named Massimo who changes his name to Abdul and starts quoting the Bible as fact puts me off immediately. I couldn't get passed the "Israel exists by Divine Right, confirmed in both the Bible and Qur'an." ....I stopped reading immediately.

Originally Posted by Massimo Palazzi

"Peace is Possible between Ishmael and Israel according to the Qur'an and the Tanach (Bible)" by Dr. Eder, with a Foreward by myself, which may be found at [www.rb.org.il]. I also welcome your readers to visit my website at [ Abdul Hadi Palazzi - Official Site ].

This is the only point where he wasn't bullshitting. Selling books... Good one Massimo!

Abdul Hadi "Massimo" Palazzi- Isn't that a face you can trust?

Originally Posted by Golani

I don't think anyone believes Israel is acting crazy. I think the Arab world sees that Israel is fighting smart.

Iraq's Prime Minister calls on Arab states to cut ties with Israel : Middle East World

Baghdad - Iraq's Prime Minister Wednesday called on all Arab and Muslim countries to cut their ties with Israel, calling the Israeli military attacks on Gaza "a dreadful crime," according to a press statement. Nouri al-Maliki said that "we ask Arab countries and all Muslims to cancel their diplomatic relations and stop all contacts - private and public - with this murderous regime, which continues its painful aggression against peaceful, unarmed civilians."

"There are disputes worldwide, but to reach this degree of crime, which kills children and women is unacceptable. The international silence is very disturbing to us, we hope the international community and the Security Council would take fast decisions, clear and explicit to stop the massacres against the Palestinian people," he added.

Saudi Arabia slams Israel's 'racist extermination' war - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Saudi Arabia has denounced Israel for its "racist extermination" war on Palestinians in Gaza, and demanded international action to prevent a humanitarian disaster in the territory.

In a statement after its weekly meeting under the chairmanship of King Abdullah, the cabinet said the 17-day-old offensive "was stripping Israeli leaders of their humanity."

Leaders of the Jewish state were "placing their policies among those of racist extermination," it said in the statement released by the official SPA news agency.

Jordan: Israel Should Be Forced To Implement Gaza Resolution

AMMAN (AFP)--Jordan's King Abdullah II urged the world Sunday to force Israel to implement a U.N. Security Council resolution calling for a ceasefire in the embattled Gaza Strip, the palace said.

"The international community has the responsibility to force Israel to implement resolution 1860," a palace statement quoted the king as telling Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas at a meeting in Amman.

"Israel must immediately adhere to the resolution by stopping its aggression on Gaza, lifting the siege on the territory and allowing humanitarian aid to the Palestinians."

Originally Posted by Golani

Israel has a legal system that actually protects Arabs and often rules against the government. Where else can you find this in the Middle East?

Israel Bans Arab Parties From Election | News From Antiwar.com


Posted January 12, 2009

By a margin of 26-3, the Israeli Central Elections Committee decided to ban the Balad Party from running in next month’s election. By a margin of 21-8, they also banned the United Arab List-Ta’al (UAL-T). The two bans will prevent more than half of the current Arab members of Israel’s Parliament, the Knesset, from running for reelection.

The Arab parties earned the ire of the most hawkish elements in the Israeli government by publicly opposing the ongoing war in the Gaza Strip. Balad likewise made enemies by explicitly calling for equal rights for all citizens of Israel, regardless of national or ethnic identity, which the ruling Kadima Party said would “undermine Israel’s identity as a Jewish state.”

A handful of Arabs will remain on the ballots across Israel, running for as-yet-unbanned Jewish majority parties, but with the general consensus among most of the population that Israeli Arabs are traitors based purely on their ethnic background, they would seem to have an uphill battle. Many disillusioned Arab voters may not vote at all, now that the only significant Arab parties aren’t allowed on the ballot.

During the discussion, Balad Chairman Jamal Zahaika called the move to ban his party “a test for Israeli democracy” and warned that the ban would lead to an outright Arab boycott of the election.

Zahaika also asked Avigdor Lieberman, the driving force behind the ban, “Why are you afraid of democracy?” Lieberman declared Balad a terrorist organization and said “whoever values life” would understand the need to ban it.

Originally Posted by Cyrille

I don't think anyone who understands the nature of this conflict, or for that matter the nature of this region, would maintain that fatah is secular.

they do and so do the western media, though I'm sure some neo-con or Zionist websites might say otherwise. this is from Israel's Haaretz newspaper:

Al-Qaida urges Palestinians to quit secular Fatah, embrace Islam - Haaretz - Israel News

Al-Qaida's second-in-command urged Palestinian fighters on Tuesday to abandon Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas's secular Fatah faction and fight for the creation of an Islamic state that would defeat Israel.

"Brothers in jihad, steadfastness and martyrdom-seeking, freedom and a sovereign government will only be achieved if you liberate Palestine from the Jews and their agents, and only if you set up a government which rules by Islamic law," Ayman al-Zawahri said in a statement carried by the SITE Institute.

"I call on those who fight under the leadership of Fatah to ask themselves: In the path of what are we fighting?"

"Fatah began as a secular national liberation movement fighting not for the establishment of an Islamic state but ... a secular state in Palestine and Islam has forbidden us from fighting unless it is for the supremacy of [God's] word."

The SITE Institute is a private U.S. organisation that tracks militant activities and often publishes militants' statements. It carried an English transcript of the Zawahri statement which it said appeared as a recording on the Internet.

The authenticity of the statement could not immediately be verified though Web sites used by radical Islamist groups have been promising a Zawahri message for more than 24 hours.

Fatah and Islamist group Hamas agreed at Saudi-sponsored talks in Mecca last week to form a unity government to end a year-old international economic embargo imposed on the Hamas-led Palestinian government because of its refusal to recognize Israel and accept existing interim peace agreements.

The deal promised an end to factional infighting that has claimed more than 90 lives since December but Israeli officials said Israel was considering suspending contacts with Abbas if the unity government did not meet those conditions.

Zawahri did not mention the unity deal and his lengthy statement appears to have been made before the Mecca meeting.

The Egyptian cleric said Fatah had given away Palestinian land to Israel through the peace accords signed in the 1990s.

He branded Abbas and his aide Mohammed Dahlan, who had spearheaded Fatah's power struggle with Hamas, as corrupt, but did not encourage fighters to join Hamas either.

"Because I hope that the nationalists and leftists will return to the truth, I call on all of them to ask themselves: who is today confronting America and Israel? Who spoiled their criminal plans in Afghanistan and Iraq? Isn't it the mujahideen?" he said.

"And because I am eager for them to avoid losing out in this world and the next, I call on all of them to return to Islam."

That was a really stupid post. You are hearing what you want to hear. I'll answer shortly anyway.

Originally Posted by Golani

and thus you show your ignorance. Would you read if it said "Israel should be destroyed by Dvine Right, confirmed in both the Bible and Qur'an"?

I would stop reading ANYTHING that starts with "the Bible says". I've said that before.

Originally Posted by Golani

So you trust these faces?

I don't trust anybody. I've said that before too...

Golani, Are you from Israel by any chance?

Originally Posted by Cyrille

I emphasised in my post that fatah has a secular faction. It's a faction whose influence has gradually receded ever since fatah's inception.

It's still the secular party in Palestinian politics and definitely one of the most secular political parties in the middle east. haven't read anything saying that Fatah is becoming an Islamic organization or less secular. have you Cyrille? link?

Clashes at West Bank, Jerusalem protests over Gaza - Yahoo! News
Fri Jan 9, 10:54 am ET

RAMALLAH, West Bank (AFP) – Supporters of the Hamas movement on Friday clashed with members of the rival Fatah party during protests in the West Bank city of Ramallah against the Israeli offensive in the Gaza Strip.

The clashes erupted after the Hamas rulers of Gaza had called for a second week in a row for Palestinians to mark a "day of wrath" against the Israeli bombardments.

Fist fights erupted and security forces used teargas and batons to disperse the demonstrators who had taken part in rival protests.

Thirteen people were taken to hospital and several others were detained, witnesses said.

Simmering tensions between Hamas and the Fatah party of secular Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas

Olmert Brags About Embarrassing Rice in UN Gaza Vote | News From Antiwar.com

Taking a short break from lashing out at the international media for reporting the growing civilian death toll in the Gaza Strip, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert spoke in detail about the events leading up to the US abstention from the United Nations Security Council’s vote on the Gaza Strip ceasefire.

“Early Friday morning the secretary of state was considering bringing the cease-fire resolution to a UNSC vote and we didn’t want her to vote for it.” Olmert said. “I said ‘get President Bush on the phone.’ They tried and told me he was in the middle of a lecture in Philadelphia. I said ‘I’m not interested, I need to speak to him now.’ He got down from the podium, went out and took the phone call.”

A beaming Olmert then described telling President Bush “the US cannot possibly vote in favor of this resolution,” and spoke with pride of how embarrassed US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was at having to abstain from voting for a resolution she helped to organize and gather support for.

The US abstention shocked diplomats, and made it easier for Israel to dismiss the ceasefire out of hand. At the time of the vote Rice declared that the United States supported the draft but could not vote for it because of their “special relationship” with Israel. Just days later Rice too was lashing out at the resolution as “unacceptable.”

A beaming Olmert then described telling President Bush “the US cannot possibly vote in favor of this resolution,” and spoke with pride of how embarrassed US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was at having to abstain from voting for a resolution she helped to organize and gather support for.

The US abstention shocked diplomats, and made it easier for Israel to dismiss the ceasefire out of hand. At the time of the vote Rice declared that the United States supported the draft but could not vote for it because of their “special relationship” with Israel. Just days later Rice too was lashing out at the resolution as “unacceptable.”

PM: Rice left embarrassed in UN vote | Confronting Hamas | Jerusalem Post

The Security Council resolution passed on Friday calling for an immediate cease-fire in Gaza was a source of embarrassment for US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who helped prepare it but ultimately was ordered to back down from voting for it and abstain, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said Monday.

Rice did not end up voting for Resolution 1860, thanks to a phone conversation he held with US President George Bush shortly before the vote, Olmert told a meeting of local authority heads in Ashkelon as part of a visit to the South.

Upon receiving word that the US was planning to vote in favor of the resolution - viewed by Israel as impractical and failing to address its security concerns - Olmert demanded to get Bush on the phone, and refused to back down after being told that the president was delivering a lecture in Philadelphia. Bush interrupted his lecture to answer Olmert's call, the premier said. America could not vote in favor of such a resolution, Olmert told Bush. Soon afterwards, Rice abstained when votes were counted at the UN.

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Originally Posted by Cyrille

I think it's more productive to actually engage in discussion rather than just post reams upon reams of quotes, myself.

wikipedia - snigger!.

you were pointing to semantics, Cyrille. neither quote said that Fatah is now more Islamic

anyway, no problemo, agreed discussion is good, though I like to add "reams of quotes" too, which you can then comment on .

Eliyahu advocates carpet bombing Gaza | Jerusalem Post

All civilians living in Gaza are collectively guilty for Kassam attacks on Sderot, former Sephardi chief rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu has written in a letter to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

Eliyahu ruled that there was absolutely no moral prohibition against the indiscriminate killing of civilians during a potential massive military offensive on Gaza aimed at stopping the rocket launchings.

The letter, published in Olam Katan [Small World], a weekly pamphlet to be distributed in synagogues nationwide this Friday, cited the biblical story of the Shechem massacre (Genesis 34) and Maimonides' commentary (Laws of Kings 9, 14) on the story as proof texts for his legal decision.

According to Jewish war ethics, wrote Eliyahu, an entire city holds collective responsibility for the immoral behavior of individuals.

In the letter, Eliyahu quoted from Psalms. "I will pursue my enemies and apprehend them and I will not desist until I have eradicated them."

^ 7 years and 4 months mate!