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Thread: USADA Bans Lance Armstrong for Life, Strips His 7 Tour Victories.

  1. #16
    Established User Array A. Merlin's Avatar
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    I'm confused. The USADA says he was doping over the course of his career. They seem to have zero evidence of that, while Armstrong has hundreds of drug tests that ostensibly put him in the clear and show that he wasn't doping. And yet the USADA is going to assert, apparently out of thin air, that he was doping, and thus strip him of his titles.

    I would think he has good grounds for a court case of some sort if the USADA really can't produce any evidence that he was doping.

  2. #17
    Mexico City Array Guy Mandude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Merlin View Post
    he has good grounds for a court case of some sort
    Armstrong has brought suit against past accusers. His patience is worn thin after seven years of defending his innocence, backed up by hundreds of negative blood tests.

    ---Update---

    Quote Originally Posted by IsaanAlex View Post
    So then why was he stripped of anything?
    Armstrong refused to agree to an arbitration process that would have been a kangaroo court. By not participating in this arbitration, the presumption is that he's guilty (since he refused to prove his innocence). Tygart seems to have a total hard-on for Armstrong as evidenced by his quote: "This is a heartbreaking example of how the win-at-all-costs culture of sport, if left unchecked, will overtake fair, safe and honest competition.

    If they strip Armstrong of his seven Tour de France titles, who will they award the titles to instead? The #2 and #3 position riders who've already been found guilty of blood doping?

    On its face, this seems grossly unfair, but Armstrong made the decision, NOT Tygart, to move forward with his life.

  3. #18
    Tough Internet Chimp Array IsaanAlex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mandude View Post
    Armstrong refused to agree to an arbitration process that would have been a kangaroo court. By not participating in this arbitration, the presumption is that he's guilty (since he refused to prove his innocence).
    So it seems that Armstrong refused to participate in a "guilty until proven innocent" ordeal.

    Good for him.

    Tygart seems to have a total hard-on for Armstrong as evidenced by his quote: "This is a heartbreaking example of how the win-at-all-costs culture of sport, if left unchecked, will overtake fair, safe and honest competition.
    That's positively Orwellian.

    It should read something like...

    "This is a heartbreaking example of how the win-at-all-costs culture of authoritarianism, if left unchecked, will overtake fair, just and honest inquiry."

    If they strip Armstrong of his seven Tour de France titles, who will they award the titles to instead? The #2 and #3 position riders who've already been found guilty of blood doping?
    That sounds about right.

    Ben Johnson's world-record time of 9.79 seconds - as thrilling as it was - was the beginning rather than the end of the story. Following the race, Johnson tested positive, news that generated as many - if not more - shockwaves as his fastest ever run. He was stripped of the title, with Lewis awarded the gold medal, Linford Christie the silver and Calvin Smith the bronze.

    More than two decades on, the story still hadn't ended. In 1999 Lewis was named Sportsman of the Century by the IOC, and Olympian of the Century by Sports Illustrated. Yet his reputation was damaged by revelations that he [Lewis] too used performance-enhancing drugs, and tested positive prior to the Seoul Olympics.


    Linky: The Dirtiest Race in History: Ben Johnson, Carl Lewis and the Olympic 100m Final Wisden Sports Writing: Amazon.co.uk: Richard Moore: Books

    On its face, this seems grossly unfair, but Armstrong made the decision, NOT Tygart, to move forward with his life.
    Wise choice I suspect.

    When faced with participating in a rigged game, best to not play at all.

    IA

  4. #19
    Mexico City Array Guy Mandude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IsaanAlex View Post
    Wise choice I suspect.

    When faced with participating in a rigged game, best to not play at all.
    Years of legal proceedings will take a toll on a person's mental and physical health. Armstrong is an amazing bicyclist, and I agree that not playing the arbitration game is a good choice.

  5. #20
    Tough Internet Chimp Array IsaanAlex's Avatar
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    ^

    Agreed.

    As a bit of an aside my father gave me some good advice. Roughly it is...

    Two guys get charged for the exact same crime.

    Defendent A gets an excellent lawyer, pleads guilty, and in 2 years walks out of jail, gets a pardon 5 years later.

    Defendent B gets a lawyer, sinks a boatload of money into legal fees, appeals, endures unbelievable stress, and then just goes into jail for 5 years...AFTER Defendant A is already out of jail and successfully moving on with his life.

    Gotta know when to cut your losses (ie. roll over/walk away)...

    IA

  6. #21
    Mexico City Array Guy Mandude's Avatar
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    Like that Kenny Rogers song, 'The Gambler.'

  7. #22
    Tough Internet Chimp Array IsaanAlex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mandude View Post
    Like that Kenny Rogers song, 'The Gambler.'
    Dolly Parton & Kenny Rogers - Islands in the stream - YouTube


    [Any excuse to play a Kenny Rogers/Dolly Parton duet]

  8. #23
    Regular User Array purplesmoker's Avatar
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    i don't say anything but i'm thinking real hard about it

  9. #24
    Happy Member Array theSmiler's Avatar
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    It is a ridiculous situation. Apparently there is lots of evidence against him, team-mates who saw him doping and are willing to testify, circumstantial evidence...

    but it should be up to them to present the evidence and and show that he took drugs beyond a reasonable doubt if they want to strip the titles... If you are delivering justice it's not enough to do the right thing but you also have to be seen to do the right thing...

  10. #25
    Senior Member Array russellsimpson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IsaanAlex View Post
    So then why was he stripped of anything?
    Because he wouldn't kick UDADA ass?

    I hope the World federation stands up to them.

    I think Lance just got tired of the constant hassle.

    *perhaps he wouldn't volunteer to be in a Homeland Security commercial?
    “America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.”

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  11. #26
    Happy Member Array theSmiler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by russellsimpson View Post
    I hope the World federation stands up to them
    I hope this happens too... then we might have some closure on the case. I would think though that however much the ICU (international cycling union) doesn't like a different body taking the authority to strip titles they will also be wary of the negative publicity that another high profile drugs case will bring.

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array russellsimpson's Avatar
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    You saying that the USADA has them over the proverbial barrel?

  13. #28
    Tough Internet Chimp Array IsaanAlex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by russellsimpson View Post
    Because he wouldn't kick UDADA ass?
    I think you mean "lick".

    But got your point...


  14. #29
    Happy Member Array theSmiler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by russellsimpson View Post
    You saying that the USADA has them over the proverbial barrel?
    I think the UCI probably think he's guilty too and don't care about Armstrong individually at all. But they don't like another body ruling on their titles and at the same time they're worried about the negative publicity a big trial would cause.

  15. #30
    Silver Surfer Array Chang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mandude View Post
    Armstrong has brought suit against past accusers. His patience is worn thin after seven years of defending his innocence
    What he should consider now, given the severity of the punishment, is to select one..just one..of his accusers and seek to financially ruin them with endless litigation.

    As a man who has fought cancer, however, I expect he has more important things to concern himself with. Staying alive being one of them
    Migrated

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