^ok, I stand corrected...
But Guy is in the Nile. Sad really. Even LA isn't there...
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But you are the one who cited Tyler Hamilton as the definitive source ... I'm not blaming Tyler for anything other than being an opportunistic parasite and liar who couldn't even write a book about himself ... he writes about Armstrong exclusively. At first, Tyler lied about his own blood doping, then decided to come clean when facing off against federal investigators.Originally Posted by goo_stewart
Everyone has their heroes. Your hero is a back-stabbing rat. Mine isn't.
Agreed
You're dreaming this... He's not the definitive source. Just one of the many who have testified... They're all lying? George Hincapie is lying? Do you even know who George Hincapie is?
500+ drug tests and none were positive. That's the system at work.
Oh, and Armstrong has raised more than $500 million in his cancer survivor foundation Livestrong. What are the accomplishments of his detractors other than writing tell-all books?
The motivation of Armstrong's detractors are clear ... if they were going to be stripped of their titles, they'd bring down Armstrong as 'misery loves company.' Just a bunch of rats and they don't deserve respect or credibility.
You're completely delusional.
Guy, where did I do that? I said that Hamilton was a source, I never cited him as the definitive source. As Smiler points out, there are many, many more sources of evidence. Yes (and I am parodying you, just in case you are too drunk to get it), Hamilton is a bitter ex-colleague, given to petty revenge and motivated by misery loving company, so let us forget him then. What about Hincapie et al? How do we write off their testimony. When you have finished explaining away why they have come forward and told their clear corroborating stories, perhaps you will then explain why the other folks came forward...
Come on Guy, you haven't even read the evidence, have you? You are floundering around in a hope that we will believe your bleating about an athlete who has, by his recent actions, actually admitted that he is not the 7 times Tour winner. Come on Guy, fess up, you haven't read ANY of the evidence, have you?
No overtime money?
Migrated
Exactly! I believe it would have been that simple. According to Hamilton, that is all it would have taken to catch him. He would have obviously refused to be tested during his glow, but then that is a ban anyway. Missing tests is also reason for a ban, all the testers had to do was look at the glow time and work out a schedule based on when the athletes would be taking EPO.
I think that the sport is cleaner nowadays, I hope Wiggins is clean, but it isn't totally clean. There are still doctors working on beating the system, there are still athletes juicing, all we need now is better policing. The UCI are appalling, WADA are appalling and the USADA is just a joke. They would rather go on a crusade than actually test athletes with any intelligent thought as to how athletes are likely to be juicing.
Poacher and gamekeeper scenario is a good analogy here, there are poachers who want to turn gamekeeper but the authorities don't want to work with them - why not? Self-interest? Incompetence? Something more sinister? I don't know, but I do know one thing, LA is guilty.
If it weren't for the United States government agencies this would still be under the carpet...the sport isn't out of the woods yet...they were interviewing Jack Swart...a former Kiwi cyclist and team mate of Armstrongs...who also gave evidence...he said the only way you can know if the sport is clean if the times for the Tour De France go back to what they were 20 years ago...we can watch with interest
So who won?
---Update---
If all the top cyclists were blood doping during the 7 Tour de France races that were stripped from Armstrong, then it was an equal playing field and the results should have left alone. This rabid pursuit of Armstrong does not serve the sport at all.
No-one, the Tour de France director has asked the UCI to not allocate those seven titles which there will be no winners for those editions
They have decided not to place a winner.
Guy, you seem upset at the 'rabid pursuit of LA', but do you now agree that he doped? Have you read the evidence against him? I would say to you claims of rabid pursuit that you are equally rabid in your denials, in the face of a mountain of evidence, that he doped. Can you at least accept that he was doping throughout his career? What you do with that knowledge is not the issue here, I happen to believe (and I have said a few times on this thread) that he was the best athlete of his generation, dope or no dope, so I will continue to view him in that light. However, there are some folks who want their money back because he cheated, it is all about the millions that he got for winning, some folks are awful upset about that. You can call him the (doped) champion if you wish, but he actually took millions of $$$ that other riders didn't get, he should give the cash back.
I want some. I feel terribly cheated.
2.250 millions just on the Tour the France
LA is the best athlete of a generationWhat a strange point of view....
10 students in my class....all of them cheated...one cheated better than the rest....Does this make him the best student?....
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