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Thread: Naming Schools

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    Naming Schools

    I disagree with your policy of not naming schools in this forum. Is this an open forum or isn't it? Is ajarn.com a site or foreign teachers or for Thai administrations?

    Allowing people to state their opinions about various schools in fact benefits all parties. Those schools that treat their staff well have nothing to worry about, but those that don't will have more difficulty obtaining competent staff and hence lose a competitive advantage. This in turn should (assuming they are reasonable, which is dubious) induce them to treat their staff better, or improve their organizational skills or whatever the criticism might be.

    It's true that Thais in power don't take criticism well and I'm sure you are concerned about being sued for libel, but it makes ajarn.com (as well as the foreign community it respresents) look better, if you don't kow tow to the very schools that ought to be criticised. Moreover, people in this forum who actually do libel schools (and that requires writing something false and defamatory), will be exposed to libel lawsuits; they should make sure that what they write is true.

    Always very truly yours,

    Jack

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    Blah! Blah! Blah! Array kenkannif's Avatar
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    ^ Blah blah blah! You don't really know how Thai law works do you???

    Go here and moan mate: http://www.teflwatch.org


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    Ok, thanks... disagreeing is fine - if we keep it civil, we all become better persons because of it... :smile:

    The policy is not going to change, though...

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    Bloody Hell! It can't be that difficult!


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    Come on over to Teflwatch where your complaint can receive the full attention that it deserves.

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    Back in the day when the ajarn.com forums had fewer moderators, more trolls and Bruce trying to tout his course, you could indeed name schools.

    Now Phil makes a lot of money off of adverts.



    But that is not the only issue. In the past Phil would occasionally pick up the phone and contact said school to try and see if there was justification for complaints or he would try to talk to teachers he knew worked at the school. This takes a long time and a lot of energy.

    But the real issue is: Is what people writing about true or are they simply bitching and making matters appear worse than they are because they have a personal grudge?

    Yes, Thai schools tend to have a lot of problems when compared to Western standards, but there are also plenty of Western teachers who leave on bad terms and don't tell the whole story. For one "bad" Thai school who may be out to screw its teachers, there is at least 10 teachers who screw schools through poor job performance, crappy attitute, quiting without giving proper notice, pulling a runner, etc.

    However, I would like to encourage you, Phil, to reconsider your policy seeing as you were once so open in the past and you trumpted teachers rights to publish the problems they may have faced if these problems are clear cut.

    Forget "I had problems with my manager because he didn't like me" (personal issues that are not related to job performance) or "the Thai admin would never tell us anything in advance" (cultural realities one finds in most schools), but why not allow people to post the name of a school if it falls under clear cut areas such as breaking the contract or not paying salary? These issues can be stated clearly and can be backed up easily by the teacher. I know for a fact that schools in the past were more careful about what they did because they were afraid of making it onto the internet.

    Some other TEFL chat sites do not allow the naming of schools, but they do allow giving people hints about the school. For example, "Famous Language School Across from MBK" or "The Place at Siam Square that only employs British people."
    However, if a new job applicant tries to do a search using the school's actual name, they will not find anything that will help them.

    If this place is supposed to be a place to share information and help people, surely allowing people to post about how they have been cheated or abused is appropriate. Please make it easier for people when they do a search. Allow people to name the name of a school if it breaks a contract or fails to pay salary. I think these two issues warrent names being published.

    What do you think, Phil?

    LDMA, I notice you wrote the no naming and shaming of schools announcement. Do you agree with altering the conditions if a school has broken the contract or have failed to pay salary?

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    Non Sibi Sed Omnibus Array Umbuku's Avatar
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    These issues can be stated clearly and can be backed up easily by the teacher.
    Hard to prove something if there are no documents. My pay slip is an envelope with handwritten numbers on it, no signature, no logo, no connection to the school whatsoever.

    For one "bad" Thai school who may be out to screw its teachers, there is at least 10 teachers who screw schools through poor job performance, crappy attitute, quiting without giving proper notice, pulling a runner, etc.
    As you say there are a lot of unethical practices by foreigners too. They feel they are returning in kind upon their ex employer as they have not been 'fairly' dealt with. Most of the threads on TeflWatch are full of sour grapes and very few actual facts.

    www.teflwatch.org
    Is the place to vent your spleen. It is the reason the site was set up and is the fourth incarnation of the original Thaischoolwatch.com site, under new management, older and wiser, and not hosted in Thailand. They may have to watch out for the MCOT though.
    Faith, by itself, isn't a good enough reason to believe. Instead, a belief must be defensible through reason, logic, and evidence.
    The idea that faith is somehow justified by the fact that the beliefs cannot be proven is a truly Orwellian position to adopt - not to mention intellectually and ethically dangerous.

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    jb and kd have 16 posts between them.

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    Sad you have to troll to present your case on such a delicate issue, but that's how it is.
    A compromise would be nice. There was once a site called The Mother of All Blacklists. On there they had a list of school names and a very brief categorized reason why a complaint was logded.


    NST High School:

    Not pay on time - 0
    Poor working conditions - 2
    Contract dishonoring - 4

    .

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    hey i know what

    why not set up your own site eh?

    call it www.shitethaischools.com

    good luck
    the only way to change things
    is to shoot men who arrange things

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array Bangkok Phil's Avatar
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    But the real issue is: Is what people writing about true or are they simply bitching and making matters appear worse than they are because they have a personal grudge?
    So you answered your own question mate.

    Louis and I have both dissected this topic many times. I'm not going over it again. Sorry.

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    jb and kd have 16 posts between them.
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    Give it up for Mr. Ray Carey!!!

    Changed the whole thread thanks Ray.
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    Simple really, isn't it? Makes one wonder why this topic was started in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by josh_ingu
    Dunno. I would have said the *real* issue is one of anonymity (or posting behind pseudonyms). If people are prepared to put *their* name behind it (verifiably) there might be a case to name and shame schools. While people are posting under false and essentially un-tracable board names, why should they have a "forum" to make potentially untrue or personally motivated claims against a school (especially as it may make the "forum" liable for the comments posted)?
    -j-
    Great in theory, until you look into the libel laws as they are set up in Thailand. regardless of whether the allegation is TRUE or FALSE its still libel, to prove innocence you have to prove a justifiable reason for making the allegation, if true, public. As this is Thailand you as a farang will never have a justifiable reason and thus will always be guilty of libel.
    The longshot of this is that if you have viable gripe against the school you will have to decamp from Thailand permanently and post your gripe under your real name in a country where publishing the truth is allowed, but then forget ever coming back here just in case someone has a long memory.

    Posted after 3 minutes 1 second:

    And remember that board names are not that untraceable, unless you make a point of visiting a different internet café every time you post.

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    Since this is a dead topic I say we move on the the next issue. Let's have a free election for new mods. I nominate ... er ... anyone but Aging One.

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    In theory we should be able to "name and shame" schools but TiT and threads that start "Mathayom XXXXXX XXXXXXX pays late every month" degenerate within a dozen posts to "the head farang teacher has a funny look in his eye and the guy who I replaced said he buggers lads for a hobby" To many low-lives, drunks and people with axes to grind for this kind of thing to work in Thailand

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