For almost 25 years I worked for the U.S. Federal Government. We never signed in, and there was definitely never a time clock to use. Where I worked, however, it was always very clear when a person wasn't on time or left early. No problem if the person told the timekeeper so an accurate record could be maintained. This often entailed more work than signing in or out.
Abuse in this system was very rare. People who did abuse it soon faced the possibility of formal disciplinary, loss of a day or two of pay, and, if continued, being fired.
At my school we have always had to sign in, and our normal work hours are 7:30 am to 4:00 pm. I have never had any problem with signing in and out. These cards seem to be somehow required in the visa/WP renewal process, so there is certainly a good reason to do it. I am almost never late and when I am I put down the correct time. The same for leaving early if for some reason I have to take care of something and have to leave early; usually I stay quite a bit later, though.
Last year, the school proposed getting time clocks and at first I was adamantly opposed to the idea. Unfortunately, however, there are some teachers here who are practicing writing their great fictional novel when they put their times down. Often they would be too late in the morning because of classes, but after their last class they often disappeared. Of course, when they got around to signing the time card the expected arrival and departure times were put on. On days without students, some might show up around 9:00 or 10:00 and disappear soon afterward, but their time card seemed to always say the appropriate times for arriving and leaving on time.
Some suggest that the schools are treating teachers in an unprofessional manner. Here at least, it might be because some of the teachers act in a patently unprofessional manner in regard to being at the school for the time they have agreed to.
For those who say they will not work at school where they have to be there after their classes are over the answer is quite simple. Don't work there. But if you do agree to certain conditions including being at the school certain times, then be there at those times. If there is something that needs to be taken care of during those hours, inform whomever and record the correct time. No problem.
By the way, the program for Thai and foreign teachers are the same, except the Thai teachers have to stay later.
Posted after 1 minute 3 seconds:
What's with the Wow on the times?
I don't think anyone on this thread has suggested that salaried employees should not be accountable for their timekeeping. It is the systems of accountability implemented by Thai unmanagement with which people are taking issue. Virtually every other education system in the world seems able to ensure appropriate timekeeping on the part of its teachers, without having recourse to such Kafkaesque methods as fingerprint scans. The Thais, as usual, have to be different.Originally Posted by LDMA
As other posters have said, if some teachers are abusing the system by failing to keep the contractually required hours, there are various other management techniques or disciplinary procedures which could be easily employed to ensure that they are brought to account. The fact is that most Thai school 'managers' and 'administrators' are nothing whatever of the sort, and could not, either collectively or individually, administer a blow football match. Most of them have no concept of decency, professionalism, or effective staff-relations and cannot even spell the word morale.
Taken in isolation, signing in and out every day may not be such a major issue (though I really do draw the line at finger scans). However, it is simply one more item on a whole list of degradations and deficiencies, the accumulated total of which will ensure that working in Thailand continues to be unattractive to the vast majority of qualified and experienced teachers.
wow, you guys are really, really burnt-out. i suggest a nice break! on a beach, with a cocktail.
my plan right now is to focus 100% on what goes on in my class room and ignore all else. screw the politics, screw getting involved in their pettiness, screw thinking too much about anything except my kids. there are ways to make this gig alot easier on your selves; lighten up, don't take things too seriously, thais don't and they're a relatively happy bunch.
life, and work, is what you make it. and if it's too much for you, get out.
"...ever wonder why they kill the weak ones, baby?"
LDMA is your boss now though.
Is that not demeaning?
Posted after 2 minutes 19 seconds:
I know that feeling.may be facing burn out,
I am planning on making a break from here for a few years whilst my memories and thoughts are still 99% positive.
course he's not my boss mate, the school is.
yeah, very wise.I am planning on making a break from here for a few years whilst my memories and thoughts are still 99% positive.
Not what he said.
He was posting how he was going to be your boss from now on and you had to make him coffee everyday.
I think he used the word bitch if I am not mistaken.
Posted after 56 seconds:
On a side note I have come to accept that my avatar is what I look like. I still get a shock in the morning when I look in the mirror and realise that it's not me staring back.
Damn you are riding everyone these days Q.
Too long in Exile, too long not singing my song.
Too long like a rolling stone, Too long in exile
Too long in Exile, baby you just arent my friend.
Too long in Exile my friend, Baby you can never go home again.
ok, ok, you got me. yeah, i have to wear a gimp suit and am chained under his desk. i have to provide 'executive relief' at any time and am paid in spanks.I think he used the word bitch if I am not mistaken.
What do you have to wear buddy?
You average 19 posts a day to Ajarn. How the phokk do you have time to think about kids, or anything else for that matter?Originally Posted by Unwell
i manage, thanks for the concern.
^ LoL and minimal effort goes into them
Hey I thought we had an arrangement mate....you easy slut you!
Riddle me this brother can you handle it
Your style to my style you can't hold a candle to it
Equinox symmetry and the balance is right
Smokin' and drinkin' on a Tuesday night
It's not how you play the game it's how you win it
I cheat and steal and sin and I'm a cynic
right, that's that great school where they decide NOT to pay at least one teacher.
Posted after 1 hour 39 minutes 4 seconds:
Where's Podge by the way ?
Sorry louis, just taking the piss mate. :smile:
What's love got to do with it...........
Hmm, wondering if Lord kelvin has been paid yet?
the latest news was nadda though.
Great school, definitely no rip off merchants? .
Well when I spoke to the accountant yesterday she said she was paying both teachers who left today, and the skinnyman got paid, I got paid, and AFAIK everyone else got paid.
Perhaps LK went to the ATM a little too early today. We were sure to remind her not to pay Likewise again anyway!
Such bitterness and false assumptions about a school that really doesn't deserve it, yet they should be the ones complaining about you since you did a runner halfway through semester and left kids without a teacher, but they like myself really don't hold that much of a grudge.
LDMA - Ajarn Forum Admin
Don't get me wrong - I don't want a 'serious' board but I'd like posts to be either genuinely amusing, informative and/ or thought provoking.
Ian McNamara - July 2000
A clash with the management will not serve the purpose of your inner peace and therefore will deprive you from happiness. Director of PAIS 2009
Only the bad person say the bad thing about the good thing.
Anon. Thai DOS