Definitely in the Southern boonies, no problemo whatsoever.
Filipos are definitely a weak second choice down this way. This seems a stronger sentiment south than north perhaps. Folks down here don't care for any outsider, dislike Phillipinos and consider them inferior.
As far as Indians, well.....
Burmese also enjoy a widely held disregard in the south.
Or so it seems to me.
Don't know why.
I wouldn't sweat it.Originally Posted by Storekeeper
Some here seem to think this situation is a "sudden realisation" that Filipinos are better and cheaper, so let's replace the farang.
There is nothing "sudden" about Thais discovering Filipinos are cheaper. They have know that for a decade. If they were going to replace all farangs they would have started long ago and on a much greater scale than the current anecdotal evidence suggests.
As to suddenly realising they are better, well, as I've said elsewhere, the jury is out on that.
What is happening is that the supply of farangs cannot keep up with the demand of Thais so they have no choice but look elsewhere.
Take my sizeable regional town. When I first arrived here bit over three years ago, English was taught by foreign teachers at three venues...a Rajabhat, and two Matayoms.
There are now permanent farang staff at eight schools and visiting farang staff at three others.
They simply cannot fill the positions. My first school has reasonable terms and conditions and at one stage employed 6 native speakers and two non-native. They just cannot get farang applicants to accept positions. Accordingly they are down to two farang teachers and up to four non-native.
But I have spoken with administration. Their policy remains "native speakers only" and they will not fill the current two vacancies with non-natives despite their employing four already.
Why? They believe the parents will not tolerate it And that fear their bilingual programme will lack credibility.
I suspect the current environment is keeping some farangs away and sending a few others home, so it is not all just about rising demand for farangs. It is falling supply as well...
You'll be right, Storekeeper...
Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.
That seems a logical starting point for hiring filipinos to me.Originally Posted by torbek
Then in many cases I guess it's realised they do a good job.
Then maybe, just maybe, it's kind of half tacitly accepted that if the students are only going to get to an upper elementary level whoever is teaching them, and that the exam results are irrelevant because they are fiddled anyway, then hell, they might as well hire more filipinos if they cost half as much.
Not sure about that last bit, tho.
I am not arguing the point that more Filipinos are actually being hired. I am merely disagreeing with those who believe it is because farangs are drunken sexpat disgraces who have priced themselves out the market.Originally Posted by Cyrille
There is a ring of possibility about your third paragraph that I can't dispute. But to be a significant impact, I think that implies Filipinos have to be at least the equal of farang teachers in overall ability to teach EFL.
If they do, as a collective, prove that to be the case, then good on them! The farangs get what they deserve for failing to provide a sufficiently better product to justify their higher cost.
But while I am certain some Filipinos can, if given the opportunity, run rings around many farangs, the message I get from here, and from my broader experience, as anecdotal as that may be, is that that is not the case.
And I think some people are misreading the extend of anti-Filipino sentiment among some Thais. I believe in some instances, it matters little is the Filipino proves far superior to the native speaker...
Perhaps what this discussion does highlight is that there is simply too little valid empirical study of anything to do with TEFL in Thailand.
I would have thought that this should have been a priority for the MoE rather than drafting sets of regulations blindly.
Perhaps a PhD opportunity staring some bright young academic in the face?
Anyway, until such evidence exists, the discussions remain in the realms of speculation, anecdotes, assumptions, and pure bullshit.
Last edited by torbek; 13th December 2006 at 15:34. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
I've worked with a couple of filipinos and I didn't get the idea the thais had any innate hostility to filipinos, either.Originally Posted by torbek
But I'm in a poor position to judge this.
As for stats - in Thailand they just pluck them out of thin air. They always think of very precise and convincing numbers though. Something like '378' is always preferable to '350'
As for a Phd - it would be a relatively interesting topic, wouldn't it.
Almost as interesting as 'Foreign ESL Teachers Attitudes To Teachers Organisations'
Not for me in this lifetime tho.
Last edited by Cyrille; 13th December 2006 at 15:40. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
So I'll stick to anecdotes...
A very senior man in academic circles who also had responsibility for a particular specialised program was giving a speech to 600 students of the program to encourage students to take up free summer classes to boost their English, he said word to the effect of...
'Look at the team of teachers I have employed for you. From England, Australia, USA. I do not employ Filipinos for you. Or Indians.'
600 students began laughing hysterically. Realising he was on a roll, he kept going...
'No Malaysians. No Chinese.'
Laughter grows so he keeps going, now acting as though he is delivering slapstick...
'Or Cambodians! I dont give you Cambodians! Or Laos!'
Every Thai, staff included, was now laughing to the verge of crying at the ridiculous notion of accepting teachers from other ASEAN countries...
While all farangs loked at the ground sheepishly, embarrassed, and a little ashamed to be even connected with the episode. We could not believe what we were hearing from a senior guy at a presitgious university.
No, Filipinos will not have an easy ride.
Not hostility. More contempt or condescension. As they do with so many other races, many Thais hold themselves superior to Filipinos. (See above anecdote plus live here long enough you will see ample evidence in the broader community.)Originally Posted by Cyrille
Besides, I think Thais are like so many humans when it comes to bigotry. Everyone has heard a person say they do not like a particular group yet has a friend who is a member of that group.
'I hate Aborgines'
'What about your mate Jacko? I though he was aboriginal.'
'Yeah but he's different'
It seems many save the bigotry for the higher, more generalised level yet on the individual level treat them as they meet them. Which is at least something!
Example: A Filipino teacher of many years standing was well liked by other Thai teachers. But asked if they want more Filipinos when unable to hire farangs, the very Thais who are socialable with this guy turn their noses up. 'No, one is enough. We want farangs.' ...when they don't mix with any of the farang staff socially.
Last edited by torbek; 13th December 2006 at 15:55. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
after re-reading the entire thread the only conclusion I can come to is...
forgive them for they know not what they do
Miles and miles to go before I sleep...
i once heard a priest and and director of a school tell an audience of parents that they should regret having boys. if they would have had girls they could have become whores, screw foreigners and make them lots of money...Originally Posted by torbek
amazing thailand eh.
"...ever wonder why they kill the weak ones, baby?"
In fairness, it's not just Thailand.Originally Posted by DunceCap
My sister and brother-in-law were long term Singapore residents on expat packages. A wealthy Chinese couple told them in conversation they were unable to visit the house of a mutual friend anymore because they had hired a Filipino housemaid. Seems Indonesian housemaids were OK but Filipinos not (or maybe other way around - it was about 10 years ago and I can't recall the details).
Ironically, this was at time Australians were being slagged off all over Asia as racists because of Pauline Hanson.
I think the main difference between east and west on this subject is that in the east, it's just not considered unacceptable to voice such sentiments. Really, if voicing such sentiments was acceptable in Australia, could I be sure we would be different?
I would like to think so, but I wouldn't bet on it!
most australians I've met were open-minded
baby jesus, baby jesus
forgive them for they know not what they do
I've found it's not the openness that's the problem, more the paucity of the contents.
Sorry - couldn't resist.
Seriously, there's as much racism in Australia as on any other country on earth, in my experience.
Don't forget we're comparing the inhabitants - not the travelers.
Last edited by Cyrille; 13th December 2006 at 18:33. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Where did you get that idea from?Originally Posted by torbek
Oh please...Originally Posted by Munted
Would those be the anecdotes or the pure bullshits?Originally Posted by torbek
Fuck your good!Originally Posted by Munted
My post was actually making the point this whole discussion was based on speculation, anecdotes, assumptions, and pure bullshit - in the absence of emprical evidence.
That, accordingly, must extend to anything I may have added to to the discussion.
You have no idea if my anecdotes are actual or pure bullshit, just as I have no idea if your numerous assumptions are valid or pure bullshit.
That is, as I pointed out, the deficiency of this discussion.
But very good work to show you have understood my point!
Keep at it!