I'm not going to answer questions on the TEFL Watch site itself but I'll address some issues here on the ajarn board.
Then you heard wrong.Posted by Andy on Sunday 12th August.
I also heard that someone had their personal information given out and the claim was made that the divulging came from a Thai employee of Ajarn. Ajarn does advertise a phone number written in Thai script on its Jobs submission page.
The phone number on the ajarn jobs submission page is a link to our call centre, which is manned by two Thai staff who don't speak a word of English between them. The service is there for Thai school admin to seek help with posting a job or getting other kinds of information. The two Thai employees wouldn't know where to look for someone's personal details if they tried. It's not a service for foreigners to ask about visa runs etc. That;'s why the number is written in Thai. It's a service where a Thai person can speak to another Thai person about job posting services. And so far it's been very successful.
When you say 'knowing that the site is connected in some way to the ajarn database' I think you mean 'forum' don't you?Posted by got_privacy? on Sunday 12th August
The problem arose because of something I posted on ajarnforum. Knowing that the site is connected in some way to the ajarn job database and since my email address given was the same for both sites as well as the password I was concerned about the CV info as well.
If that's the case you're completely wrong. The ajarn forum and the ajarn website are two completely different things managed by two totally different people in different locations. The website has a database which stores job ads, resumes and school registrations, the forum has a database that stores member details.
This is not a direct quote but there seems to be a school of thought on TW that if ajarn.com loses the advertising for TEFL International then it's going to be like the end of the world for ajarn. Sorry but that isn't true either.TEFL International is bankrolling ajarn.com
TEFL International is treated exactly the same as any other banner advertiser. Admittedly they have a banner or two more than everyone else but they are treated the same and they pay the same as anyone else in their banner position section.
One of the reasons you see a 'lot of TEFL International banners' is that one or two of their franchise operations advertise with us as well. Although the structure of the company seems sometimes complicated to me, there are many independent 'arms' to TEFl International (I think)
But of course, in true TW fashion the whole organisation gets slagged off because a) it's convenient and b) it doesn't require any research or thought.
It's a bit like the thread that slags off a Sarasas school without mentioning which one. Until some kind Sarasas employee came on board to explain that there are actually 19 Sarasas schools and some are terrible to work at and some are fantastic. It just depends.
The owner of TEFL International and I are not 'good friends' or 'in cahoots' or whatever colorful expression you want to come up with. Not unless speaking on the phone to someone three times and meeting them once in about six years constitutes a great friendship.
I haven't started this thread to launch some kind of forum war, but I think when a site you helped promote has a thread on ajarn criticisms, then I have a right to reply from the comfort of my own 'manor'
Last edited by Bangkok Phil; 13th August 2007 at 08:43.
The worst job in Thailand must be the man who has to sit down with a blue marker pen and mark a number two on the two-baht coins to stop people thinking they are one-baht coins.
All sites mentioned, Ajarn, ajarnforum and TEFL Watch, serve very different needs.
Nice one Phil.
Faith, by itself, isn't a good enough reason to believe. Instead, a belief must be defensible through reason, logic, and evidence.
The idea that faith is somehow justified by the fact that the beliefs cannot be proven is a truly Orwellian position to adopt - not to mention intellectually and ethically dangerous.
Yes, apparently I'm also in TI Bruce's pockets, despite there clearly not being any kind of banner for TEFL International on the forum, and not actually making and kind of income off Bruce....though of course he'd be quite welcome to have a banner if he wanted one.
LDMA - Ajarn Forum Admin
Don't get me wrong - I don't want a 'serious' board but I'd like posts to be either genuinely amusing, informative and/ or thought provoking.
Ian McNamara - July 2000
A clash with the management will not serve the purpose of your inner peace and therefore will deprive you from happiness. Thai Language School DOS, 2009
Only the bad person say the bad thing about the good thing.
Anon. Thai DOS
I did a TI course. They never mentioned Ajarn.com. This is the first I have heard of any conection at all. It sounds nonsense to me. Bruce is a businessman, so is Phil, they both work in the TEFL industry in Thailand. So what?Originally Posted by LDMA
Good information Phil. Thanks for the post.
Indeed Umbuku.All sites mentioned, Ajarn, ajarnforum and TEFL Watch, serve very different needs.
I think Ajarn is getting caught up in this war of attrition between TEFL International and TEFL watch. There's a whole lotta bad blood there obviously.
On the face it does seem to be quite a nasty business - but I don't know the facts so how can you judge without the facts? I wasn't there. And neither do I personally know the 'victims' involved. I don't even know their real names.Originally Posted by russellsimpson
I can't really understand some of the parties involved wanting to air their views on a public forum. Why don't they leave it to legal people to sort out?
How many of us visit the Forum and how often? How many of us visit TEFL Watch? Go figure.
Just to be absolutely clear here, I have no access to Phil's DB on Ajarn.com, and he has no access to my DB here on the forum. They are completely separate systems.Originally Posted by Bangkok Phil
Oh they've been sniping away since their admin got banned from here for doing something naughty back in October last year, their moderators have been consistently been rabidly anti-ajarn, and it's all egged on by Smeg. I barely read that site and I certainly don't post on there. Loonies and conspiracy theoriests.Originally Posted by russellsimpson
Yeah, they're all bonkers for giving the ridiculous site so much credibility IMO.Originally Posted by Bangkok Phil
Last edited by LDMA; 13th August 2007 at 13:28. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Inevitable growing pains Louis.Yeah, they're all bonkers for giving the ridiculous site so much credibility IMO.
IMO they are becoming more professional, though obviously they have been less than so in the past.
Give em a chance. There is a need for this kind of site, I'm sure you wouldn't argue that.
Takes time to get a site like that up and running in a professional fashion.
I also get the impression that their disagreements with B.V. are now in the hands of the lawyers, state side, I think.
I have only been using the Forum since May. However I remember a public spat between TI Bruce and some guy in Southern Thailand being aired somewhere over a year ago. I can't remember what site is was on. Is it the same spat?Originally Posted by russellsimpson
Indeed, that's why I originally founded Thai School Watch, I just lacked the stomach for supporting the users that inevitabley swarm to that kind of site.Originally Posted by russellsimpson
I remember that, and that may have been the "start'.
It all got pretty convuluted after that. It seems to me that of late the folks over at TEFL are getting a better handle on things. Hopefully that's the case.
It's really hard to know what the sequence of events was. Personally, I am just saying that the sooner these folks (all parties involved) put this thing on a professional level the better for everyone.
Fair enough. It's unfortunate you have to do it, but you're left with little choice.I haven't started this thread to launch some kind of forum war, but I think when a site you helped promote has a thread on ajarn criticisms, then I have a right to reply from the comfort of my own 'manor'
TEFL will either have to act more professionally, or they probably won't be around that long. I think there are folks over there who are starting to clue into this. Let's hope so.
Some have genuine grievances. Many do not.Originally Posted by LDMA
Once I read something like "the exam papers are under the control of a large cross-eyed sweaty woman with a hare lip and a penchant for lurex cardigans' you instinctively know that the teacher was probably fired for very good reason.
That is always what turns me off that kind of site. Very few people can stick to the facts without adding lurid inconsequential embellishments.
Sorry Sam but your assumption is wrong.Posted by Sam Vines. TEFL watch moderator 13th August
I would guess (and I assume) that as both entities are not set up as legal businesses (for tax purposes etc), then technically they are indeed distinct entities, but correct me if I'm wrong, they do enjoy a symbiotic relationship and a lot of the sponsors are the same. There is clearly no distinction between the sites and in my mind and I would guess in the minds of many people, they are in fact the same site, the same business/ the same website.
Ajarn.com is set up as a legal business. It is registered as 'an internet advertising services provider' limited partnership (at the request of the Thai Ministry of Commerce) and has a tax ID number and pays VAT to the Thai government.
Last edited by Bangkok Phil; 13th August 2007 at 14:18. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Usually Superfluous information means the person is telling some lie or omitting some important fact. Criminologist have a word for it I forget what it is.Originally Posted by Bangkok Phil
I'm not dodging any issues here Sam. Does TEFL International sponsor ajarn.com? If the word 'sponsor' means paying for a banner advertisement / advertisements, then yes is the answer.Also posted by Sam Vines
So it's true? TEFL International does sponsor (bankroll) ajarn.com and ajarnforum.net. It contributes money to both sites. Bankroll does not mean to exclusively fund which is the interpretation BKKPHIL is trying to use to dodge this issue.
I think ajarn.com/ajarnforum.net have pulled threads that are critical on the behest if TEFL international. If this is not true then perhaps ajarn.com/ajarnforum.net can deny this and explain why anything negative about TEFL nternational is binned pretty quickly.
As for your second point, we (the moderators) generally pull all threads eventually that relate to TEFL courses or individual schools. I use the word 'eventually' because they always turn nasty. This is a 'rule' that's been in place for five years or more. To connect our policy with the situation at the TW forum and make it look like a recent stance is both misleading and untrue.
Actually the first word I put down was 'details', which probably reads better?Originally Posted by re_fuse
Substitute it for details then Refuse. Criminologists would probably refer to it as 'coherence'
Anyway, back on topic.
Last edited by Bangkok Phil; 13th August 2007 at 14:29. Reason: Automerged Doublepost