I would like to say this is a good idea, I am generally supportive of people who get off their arses and do something positive like this for an industry. It may be money motivated or purely a labour of love, however anyone doing something positive gets my support. There may be some issues with implementation, but that shouldn't stop people from trying AND receiving our support.
I would just add that I do think that the MoL has this service already and can be quite helpful - they are of course governed by the unwritten rules of Thailand's culture but they still deliver an adequate service when called upon. If you set up another avenue through which parties can appeal then good luck, very difficult to do, but I wish you all the best of British.
To all the cynics, please look up the origins of the word. Individuals they are!
I only have to donate 5 hours a year...doing what?
I know a guy on this board who taught for a while at one of Thailand's oldest law firms. He took the trouble to ask, as a favor, that one of the lawyers there answer any labor related questions "free of charge". The lawyer in question was somewhat a leader of his field (not as good as me, but close ).Originally Posted by goo_stewart
The poster put the offer on the table in the forum - basically, free use of a $100++ an hour lawyer.
About 12 months later I ran into said lawyer and ask how the pro-bono was going. "Not been asked a single question" was the response.
Cynic - you bet I am. Most of you don't know how good you've got it. Yes, the pay is crap. Yes, the day-today problems are crap. But at the end of the day, what?
I am not the original poster, but we have been collaborating on this project. I thought I might add a few of my opinions on questions raised.
The site will cater to a worldwide audience. Obviously schools and teachers can simply refuse to comply. However, if schools are listed as refusing to participate in the process or refusing to comply with the results then, without criticizing them or attacking them, teachers will know to avoid these schools.
When a complaint is brought to the admin of the site, we will randomly choose 2 arbitrators; one a normal teacher and one a DOS/Manager. These two will then mutually choose a third. We hope to have approximately 100 arbitrators on our list worldwide. Obviously, if a potential arbitrator has some connection with the teacher or school, they will be expected to decline.
The case of the teacher will be provided by Email/skype. Then the school will have an opportunity to reply. The teacher can rebut, then so can the school. Eventually the three arbitrators will come to a decision.
This decision will be summarized and posted on the site under the country page of the school. It will updated to mention whether the school has complied with the ruling (assuming that the school is asked to compensate the teacher).
This will not be a forum to attack schools without evidence or, as sometimes seems to happen, for the sheer joy of it. We hope schools will respect the fact that our site is not there to punish or reward either side, but to assist both sides.
The management are also all volunteer, although we are hoping to eventually generate some “google” ad income when the site naturally becomes a type of rating system for schools (no complaints, or resolved disputes a big thumbs up, unresolved complaints a big thumbs down). As the few of us involved actually have been both teachers and managers, we can see things from both sides.
Last edited by esljudge2; 15th August 2007 at 23:37.
Thanks for that. Very interesting.
Not actually 'binding arbitration' then as stated before. I'm sure you can understand teachers' cynicism in that case. After all if there wasn't a likelihood of cynical teachers then there wouldn't be a need for the service. Like I said, good luck all the same - I'll be interested to see how it works out, although I don't have the time to offerOriginally Posted by esljudge2
We will push for schools to accept the decision as binding. I feel some schools, schools with nothing to fear, may gladly accept this as a "badge of honour". Other schools will probably wait for us to prove our true impartiality. This may take some time.
If you would like to make a difference, and are willing to assist schools and teachers, send us an Email.
Originally Posted by Well
"so please show no pity as we come up from the ground, and please remember as you kill us and cut us down that time will not wash clean the bloody face of history, and someone will breathe here again and they will hate you for what you leave." m.g.
Obviously the (as of yet unrealized) hope is that good schools will want to prove they are "teacher friendly" and be willing to submit to arbitration.
We are not guaranteeing that this will be a wild success, but it is certainly better than the current system of slagging the school off without any real evidence.
We are optimists. Keep your fingers crossed.
I think it's a noble cause indeed and could be incorprated into existing sites. Email has been sent!
Are you actually reading this? Do you think I care?
Obviously none of the legitimate sites out there allow blatant attacks on schools, justified or not. We are hoping that the sturcture of this site will allow this and other sites to recommend teachers with gripes to our site with a clear conscience.
Thank you, Whitey.
Good luck. Good schools usually resolve their problems before they reach arbitration. Bad schools don't give a shit anyway. Sadly in Thailand the bad ones vastly outnumber the good ones and their always a bribe to fix a problem. I see you biggest challenge as trying to understand the culture and getting established in the first place. You need to gain a position of respect amongst the EFL world which is pretty tough. Do you really think any schools want interfering Ferrangs setting up a kangaroo court because thats how many schools will see it.Originally Posted by esljudge2
This is international, not Thai based. The origonal poster was in Korea. I am in Thailand. LDMA has already been briefed. We already have arbitrators joining from all over the world.
it may fall on its face but there is currently no alternative. if it becomes a defacto "gray list" and some populatrity with teachers it can become a force for good.
Manage Ajarn Ferangs In Arbitration= MAFIAOriginally Posted by re_fuse
Bite off more than you can chew, then chew like buggery! (Peter Brock 05)
ESLJUdge was kind enough to PM me with an overview of his idea earlier and while it sounds tricky to implement, it does sound like an interesting alternative to the current system of forums that exists. I think earlier talk of formal or legal arbitration is a bit of a red herring. I think was is essentially being proposed is a grey list, a way for wrongs to be righted, or at least heard in public, but not a free-for-all.
Anyway, it sounds a reasonable plan, so I look forward to seeing something more concrete being put into place and seeing this grand plan in action. Good luck!
LDMA - Ajarn Forum Admin
Don't get me wrong - I don't want a 'serious' board but I'd like posts to be either genuinely amusing, informative and/ or thought provoking.
Ian McNamara - July 2000
A clash with the management will not serve the purpose of your inner peace and therefore will deprive you from happiness. Thai Language School DOS, 2009
Only the bad person say the bad thing about the good thing.
Anon. Thai DOS
Brilliant Mr BillOriginally Posted by Big Bill