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Thread: Arbitration

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array Big Bill's Avatar
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    Re: Arbitration

    Quote Originally Posted by re_fuse
    Brilliant Mr Bill
    Xie Xie!
    Bite off more than you can chew, then chew like buggery! (Peter Brock 05)

  2. #47
    Non Sibi Sed Omnibus Array Umbuku's Avatar
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    Re: Arbitration

    Quote Originally Posted by esljudge2
    The case of the teacher will be provided by Email/skype. Then the school will have an opportunity to reply. The teacher can rebut, then so can the school. Eventually the three arbitrators will come to a decision.
    So, the teacher can lie, the school can lie and none of the arbitrators will know the difference. Without a representative on the ground and capable of investigating the claims of either party further how can an arbitration be reached?

    It's a nice idea but I don't see the practical benefit to either party in the process at the moment.
    Faith, by itself, isn't a good enough reason to believe. Instead, a belief must be defensible through reason, logic, and evidence.
    The idea that faith is somehow justified by the fact that the beliefs cannot be proven is a truly Orwellian position to adopt - not to mention intellectually and ethically dangerous.

  3. #48
    Senior Member Array Jellybean's Avatar
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    Re: Arbitration

    I wish I weren't such a cynic, but I agree with Umbuku. I can't see Thai schools giving a hoot about a site like this.

  4. #49
    Non Sibi Sed Omnibus Array Umbuku's Avatar
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    Re: Arbitration

    Now, if the site was the number one hit for search engines when searching for the schools name, then they may be concerned by it.

    Also if the owners of the site had a direct link to the MoE or the police and courts then it might make a difference.

  5. #50
    Senior Member Array russellsimpson's Avatar
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    Re: Arbitration

    Haven't read the entire thread, just the beginning and ending.

    It seems to me though, that what the OP is suggesting basically already exists, to a large extent anyway, in organization such as TEFL Watch.

    There is no central governing body or recognized standards in the TEFL industry (and for very good reasons).

    So trying to codify some kind of systems that relies on the the parties and a third (arbitrator) just ain't going to work.

    I think TEFL Watch is potentially just fine. School fucks up and refuses to respond or rectify then they get hit with a blacklisting, which gets spread far and wide.

    The onus is kinda on the school to maintain good business practice because even the "rumour' of malpractice on a well read site, can bring the wrath of god down on any school, training program ,etc.

    I'd say, bad idea. Not worth the effort.
    When being run out of town, get in front of the crowd and make it appear like a parade.

  6. #51
    Boss Shaggers Club Array 8ball's Avatar
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    Re: Arbitration

    My advice to the 2 esljudges

    dun hold ur breath

    I-never-dun-a-ting-rong-in-me-life-m8

  7. #52
    Senior Member Array defender's Avatar
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    Re: Arbitration

    I think a website without a forum is the only hope of reconciling both sides in a potential argument between school and teacher. Still I have reservations though, even when neither side is lying in such a dispute it is still often the case that they will have a very different perception of the truth as well as a very different perception of what is an appropriate compromise

    Note from Phil

    Defender,
    I edited this post and deleted a few others (from other people) so we stay on the topic of the original post.
    Last edited by Bangkok Phil; 17th August 2007 at 07:48.

  8. #53
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    Re: Arbitration

    Wow! 4 pages already.

    Thanks to all who have responded via PM/Email - you should have got (or will be soon getting) a detailed reply - my apologies to those who had to wait - I'm doing them on a first-come-first-emailed basis - teaching schedule permitting.

    I will post more Thailand specific details here once I have had a chance to talk to people on the ground there, but the general idea in Korea is that it is SUCH a teachers market here with no-one easily meeting their recruitment targets here that the response has been astonishingly positive from schools eager to improve their reputations as employers.

    I realize it is different in the land of smiles but I would be surprised if the larger employers wouldn't be equally as keen there - I will wait on feedback from those with more experience in that part of the world.

    Many thanks for the feedback to all - I promise to read here more regularly

  9. #54
    Senior Member Array kiwiling's Avatar
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    Re: Arbitration

    Quote Originally Posted by stfranalum
    youre telling us that schools abroad do as they wish?
    They do in my country, in a big way. Rules count for jack s...t. Thats why there are so many Kiwis teaching oveseas.

  10. #55
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    Re: Arbitration

    Quote Originally Posted by russellsimpson
    Haven't read the entire thread, just the beginning and ending.

    It seems to me though, that what the OP is suggesting basically already exists, to a large extent anyway, in organization such as TEFL Watch.

    There is no central governing body or recognized standards in the TEFL industry (and for very good reasons).

    So trying to codify some kind of systems that relies on the the parties and a third (arbitrator) just ain't going to work.

    I think TEFL Watch is potentially just fine. School fucks up and refuses to respond or rectify then they get hit with a blacklisting, which gets spread far and wide.

    The onus is kinda on the school to maintain good business practice because even the "rumour' of malpractice on a well read site, can bring the wrath of god down on any school, training program ,etc.

    I'd say, bad idea. Not worth the effort.
    Sorry, Russell, but you are dead wrong.

  11. #56
    Senior Member Array russellsimpson's Avatar
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    Re: Arbitration

    Well, since Phil has already issued a warning that this thread may find it's way to the bin in short order, let me just try a quick response.

    This is the second time you've quoted that post Bruce. I didn't respond to your fist posting.

    Now you're here again telling me I'm dead wrong, once again.

    Now, please tell me what I am dead wrong about Bruce.

    I haven't personally attached you on the thread. I've made some comments with regard to the OP's suggestions, which you've now quoted twice. Why the need for that?

    I stand by what I said. If a school or training facility is guilty of poor practice then it is entirely fai that an organization such as TEFL Watch, should (hoipefully in a professional manner) investigate the claims and if there is any substance to the claims then they have the moral obligation to get this message out to their readership.

    You're concern seems to be that they are spreading lies and not taking an even handed approach to the situation.

    Schools and training facilities can also make claims that amount to outright lies.

    So what's wrong with exposing these people when there seems to be enough evidence to support doing so.

    I don't really support this new proposed organization because I tend to favour more of a free enterprise system.
    Do a good job and word is going to get out. Do a poor job, then word will also get out.

    Let's leave it up to the reader (consumer) to decide who is more believable and who is less believable.

    A good start is in trying to keep the level of discussion professional.

    So sorry Bruce. I am not dead At least not yet) and your claim that I am dead wrong is simply your opinion.

    Sometimes I think you may take things a little to personally. Being open to criticism comes with the territory.

    So, bottom line Bruce is that I don't really understand you posting this statement again to tell me that I am dead wrong.

    Forget it. Take five.

  12. #57
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    Re: Arbitration

    Nothing personal, Russell. And I did not mean to say you were dead! Perhaps the difference in opinion is over the ideal and the reality. Perhaps the term "in a professional manner".

    I would love to go on and on but I can't.

    All I will say is that there needs to be SOMETHING that is done "in a professional manner" and currently there is not.

  13. #58
    Senior Member Array russellsimpson's Avatar
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    Re: Arbitration

    Just so I know I haven't completely lost my mind, somebody please tell me that this thread has endured some extensive pruning overnight ?

    If that is the case(not the mind business, but the pruning stuff) who might have engaged in such activity?

    Or am I confusing two threads.

    Confused at this point.

  14. #59
    Senior Member Array Jellybean's Avatar
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    Re: Arbitration

    ^Phil did some house cleaning and removed some off topic posts.

  15. #60
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    Re: Arbitration

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce
    All I will say is that there needs to be SOMETHING that is done "in a professional manner" and currently there is not.
    So, in theory, how would a man in your position - a businessman in the ESL world - feel about investing in a 'professional' organisation that is entirely independent of businesses and managed and run entirely by teachers and DOS?

    Would you be up for it? Even if you would get no protection and they would be looking into your schools and businesses the same way as everybody else's.

    I think that's the problem. Teachers want a professional organisation, but aren't keen on paying union dues. School owners want protection from amateurish slurs, but only ever get as far as setting up 'token' regulatory bodies which all teachers know play for whoever is calling the tune.

    We get professional websites that get lambasted for running adverts and then we get amateur websites that get lambasted for not being professional enough!

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