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Thread: My fairwell to TEFL

  1. #106
    Mac user finally!! Array phuketbound's Avatar
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    Re: My fairwell to TEFL

    kiwiling
    Get any more pay because of having the CELTA?
    It helps to have it, because it does put me on a higher category pay scale at the public schools. That is not why I did it though. Did doing the TEFL Int. put you on a higher pay scale?

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    Senior Member Array kiwiling's Avatar
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    Re: My fairwell to TEFL

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrille
    A CELTA isn't 'worth jackshit' it's a months training with people who largely know their stuff, and is very intensive. I take it you haven't done it, so how on earth can you logically conclude it is worth jackshit? (yes, everyone has accepted it is a short course, and can only act as an introduction) The 'no bregging rights' argument is irrelevant - I'm not bragging.
    I have done a TEFL International. I don't think it is any lesser than a CELTA...but somebody can tell me it is and why. Torbek mentioned uni credits in Oz and that is a fair comment...but I don't know how much of an advantage that would be in the long run.

    I cannot count off the top of my head how many intensive short courses I have done with people who know their stuff. They were with very reputable outfits including one in Europe. They are on my CV, but not on my Resume. I don't tell people I have done them...they can read about them in my CV. That is the "bragging rights" I talk about. The only thing I tell them is my registration as a teacher...that is a bragging right in this context.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrille
    Any employer for a job worth having will look at both. In fact, since work records are so difficult to verify they will generally want to see verified qualifications first, before contacting previous employers. In fact time is often too short to contact employers - making certificates even more important. 3 To be very honest if a person was a Khao San alumni but had worked successfully in the game for 10 years or so...it wouldn't worry me as along as the work record showed his/her true skills. If someone had a fake degree and cert then you would view their work record without any suspicion? You're a trusting fella.
    I have an excellent record with the standard of person I have recruited and am very proud of that. There was a succession of undesirable people employed before I took over. That was not the fault of the previous farang...the Thai management disregarded his advice...I learned from his experience to be more blunt about who I think is good or bad.

    Qualifications on a piece of paper are only part of the deal...and one always has to allow for fakes.

    However what cannot be denied is work a teacher has done before. In our training we were taught to keep examples of our work to show prospective employers. Recent examples of lesson plans and teaching strategies count for a whole lot. People who bring them to an interview show much about their teaching ability. You are not paying a person for what her or she looks like...you are paying for what they can do.

    I have ignored people who had degrees I thought were fake...but were in fact genuine...why?...because their attitude was bad...just like I would expect from a fake...and also their work record was shite...continual job turnover.

    I have never checked on the degrees of people I have employed...never. So they might be fake...I don't know...I employed them for the personal qualities I saw. Also I recall speaking to another poster here who told me of a person he knew who was a Khao San Road alumni. This guy never guessed and he had been working in Thailand for years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrille
    Obviously a heavy drinking sexpat with a CELTA is not an attractive candidate. Though suggesting that having a thai girlfriend makes a candidiate dubious reveals a whole raft of your prejudices.
    I have a Thai girlfriend...so have no prejudices there... but yes anybody with an address in Pattaya I have doubts about straight away...how is that for prejudice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrille
    Nobody is saying a CELTA is the be all and end all of hiring a suitable candidiate.
    It tells the employer something about the person...that is all. There were people on my TEFL course I wouldn't employ at all...degree or no degree. The value of the course is more personal than public...and that is why TEFL International make their students prepare a portfolio...Dave was very clear about that being the true qualification of the course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrille
    Are you seriously saying that someone who is sufficiently deceitful, demotivated and/or destitute to get a fake degree and fake cert. could still be a suitable candidate for a job you were hiring for?
    Good question. There was a guy who applied for a job with a diploma mill qualification. He was a genuinely nice guy. He was not deceitful. He was not a sexpat. He had a longstanding relationship with a Thai career woman, who wanted to stay here. He had no experience with teaching but had a history of honest jobs in the his home country. I think the management were prepared to turn a blind eye to things. I said no. To throw somebody like that into secondary teaching with large class sizes was too much of a risk I thought. I felt the workload would get to him and it would come back on us. I could have taken a risk and given him a go. Now just assume some other school took a risk and it worked out, and he came back after 5 years teaching and we were desperate...what would you do?

    They call that the paradigm shift.
    -----
    Quote Originally Posted by phuketbound
    It helps to have it, because it does put me on a higher category pay scale at the public schools. That is not why I did it though. Did doing the TEFL Int. put you on a higher pay scale? __________________
    No...but having a Masters or Phd from some second rate outfit or a Diploma Mill would.
    -----
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrille
    Just shows that a PGCE isn't the 'be all and end all' either
    WTF!!!...a PGCE is a genuine bragging right qualification.
    Last edited by kiwiling; 16th September 2007 at 16:15. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  3. #108
    Senior Member Array champagne charlie's Avatar
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    Re: My fairwell to TEFL

    I've been through the "long course" of uni teacher training, and in a way it's just an introduction as well. I suppose that's why good gigs, higher salaries and teaching awards aren't rewarded to newly-minted credential holders who haven't put in the years...perhaps?

    There seems to be more cynics and scoffers than braggarts IMO. That is to say there's always some dick trying to shit on other people's accomplishments. 4 week course? Worthless. Uni degree? Not necessary. QTS? Must be a stuck up who thinks he's god's gift to teaching. And by a strange coincidence, these naysayers tend to lack the very goods that they're attempting to discredit.

  4. #109
    Senior Member Array kiwiling's Avatar
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    Re: My fairwell to TEFL

    Quote Originally Posted by phuketbound
    I found the CELTA was more recognized around the world. Especially in Europe if I ever decide to teach there.
    TEFLers are the bottom of the eaching heap in any country. I don't know what a CELTA is worth overseas but I suspect an experienced TEFLer without a CELTA would do just fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by phuketbound
    The course is intensive, and definitely allowed me to learn more about grammar terms, lesson planning, and gave me practice with teaching adults, that I did not learn in Teacher's college.
    That is exactly what TEFL International teaches. I think Dave, or some of the other teaching staff taught at CELTA before they went to TEFL International. Bruce was the businessman, he stayed out of the classroom.
    -----
    Quote Originally Posted by champagne charlie
    I've been through the "long course" of uni teacher training, and in a way it's just an introduction as well. I suppose that's why good gigs, higher salaries and teaching awards aren't rewarded to newly-minted credential holders who haven't put in the years...perhaps?
    I agree Charlie...and as for newly minted people they are second in the pecking order behind 5 to 15 years exerienced teachers...older dudes are a distant third...for many reasons.
    Last edited by kiwiling; 16th September 2007 at 16:23. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  5. #110
    dia dhuit Array zehner's Avatar
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    Re: My fairwell to TEFL

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiling
    TEFLers are the bottom of the teaching heap in any country.
    not necessarily so. many international schools give equal status and pay to language teachers.

  6. #111
    Hangin' Around Array Cyrille's Avatar
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    Re: My fairwell to TEFL

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiling
    I have done a TEFL International. I don't think it is any lesser than a CELTA...but somebody can tell me it is and why.
    Oh, I see. You're trying to turn this into yet another 'Battle of the TEFL Courses' thread.

    Why didn't you say so in the first place.

    WTF!!!...a PGCE is a genuine bragging right qualification.

    -----
    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiling
    TEFLers are the bottom of the teaching heap in any country.

    Quote Originally Posted by zehner
    Many international schools give equal status and pay to language teachers.
    As do all public Universities and Colleges throughout the UAE - including the one I work at.

    Maths, Accounting, IT, Business Studies, you name it - we're all on the same pay scale.
    Last edited by Cyrille; 16th September 2007 at 16:54. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  7. #112
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    Re: My fairwell to TEFL

    To me, its simple....how many advertisements outside of Thailand are looking for a CELTA and how many are looking for TI's certification. From my experience, CELTA's are more universally applicable than what TI offers, but then again, TI's course is less expensive. It all depends on what you want...an intro to the world of teaching on a sun soaked beach for relatively little money and no worldwide recognization of your certification or a universally accepted certification in a more professional setting with more expense...its up to each individual.

  8. #113
    Senior Member Array kiwiling's Avatar
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    Re: My fairwell to TEFL

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrille
    Oh, I see. You're trying to turn this into yet another 'Battle of the TEFL Courses' thread.
    Absolutely not...I was just putting the value of a 4 week short course into perspective...the ones with their noses in the air are from CELTA it appears...good luck to you all if that is all you have to brag about.

    and...

    it appears you questioning the value of a PGCE...if that is the case get off your butt and do one and see what the difference is. Many TEFLers have and I respect them for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrille
    As do all public Universities and Colleges throughout the UAE - including the one I work at. Maths, Accounting, IT, Business Studies, you name it - we're all on the same pay scale.
    and what about the west...how much money would you get teaching TEFL in the UK, US teaching TEFL with a CELTA compared with a full teaching diploma or degree?

    How many people with a PGCE brag about or having a CELTA or TEFL?

    Charlie made a comment before about cynics and braggers etc. IME it is in teaching and education that you get this nonsense...proper academics look at the work you are actually doing...everything else is history...just like in pro sport.

  9. #114
    Hangin' Around Array Cyrille's Avatar
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    Re: My fairwell to TEFL

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiling
    TEFLers are the bottom of the heap in any country.
    Quote Originally Posted by zehner
    not necessarily so. many international schools give equal status and pay to language teachers.
    Quote Originally Posted by cyrille
    As do all public Universities and Colleges throughout the UAE - including the one I work at.



    http://blog.lextext.com/_photos/DSCN0126.JPG



    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiling
    and what about the west...

    Dunno mate - maybe you should ask someone who gives a ****. Maybe try the TES forum?

  10. #115
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    Re: My fairwell to TEFL

    TI's big pull has been Bruce's unceasing marketing efforts. This guy could probably sell ice to Eskimos just as easily as selling an unaccredited TEFL course to wannabe teachers. The program gave people an introduction to TEFL and gave teachers what they needed to teach abroad, what more do they want?
    Are you actually reading this? Do you think I care?

  11. #116
    Senior Member Array kiwiling's Avatar
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    Re: My fairwell to TEFL

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey
    The program gave people an introduction to TEFL and gave teachers what they needed to teach abroad, what more do they want?
    A B.Ed in 4 weeks. ...

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    Re: My fairwell to TEFL

    Hi, again, all.

    Yes, that was dollars.

    Business in Ban Phe (and worldwide) continues unabated. Just possibly not as much expansion in the near future.

    CELTA and TI offer very similar courses and CELTA, in my opinion, just has better name brand recognition because of their 30-year head start.

    Our courses differer a great deal by region. Our courses in Asia are much more appropriate for Asia than CELTA courses. Again, my opinion.

    And, as tehre is no international accrediting organization for TEFL (CELTA is the one BLOCKING this) no courses are internationally accredited.

  13. #118
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    Re: My fairwell to TEFL

    Now, I'd sign up for that program. I'm sure Bruce would do a program like that if he could get some uni to go along with it. That's the great thing about Bruce. He is able to give the market what they think they want. I'm sure he'll be successful in whatever business he gets involved in. I wouldn't invest with him(I said he'll be successful, not neccessarily his partners), but if I had to bet money, he'll continue onward and upward.

  14. #119
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    Re: My fairwell to TEFL

    CELTA and TI offer very similar courses and CELTA, in my opinion, just has better name brand recognition because of their 30-year head start.
    And maybe because it's run by the University of Cambridge. Cambridge University, that quite well known university that is famous for quality and standards....
    Odi et amo. Quare id faciam, fortasse requiris? Nescio, sed fieri sentio et excrucior.

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    Re: My fairwell to TEFL

    Quote Originally Posted by haltest
    And maybe because it's run by the University of Cambridge. Cambridge University, that quite well known university that is famous for quality and standards....
    I thought it was University of Cambridge Local Examinations Syndicate (UCLES) which is as connected to the university as Cambridge University Press (CUP) is. Just another profit-orientated business me ol china, except they have a great brand.

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