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View Poll Results: What is keeping the educational system in Thailand down?
incompetence, poor management 26 59.09%
elite class actively thwarts development of critical thinking skills in the general population 16 36.36%
there are no major flaws in the Thai educational system 2 4.55%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 20th July 2008, 12:41   #1 (permalink)
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What is keeping the Thai education system down?

"Most of the established universities in the 21st century have faculties of education, where the teacher training is now based on child centred learning, and the standard is high. However, those who graduate as teachers will invariably seek positions in the private sector. Many students enroll in the faculties of education not with the intention of pursuing a teaching career, but to benefit from the superior quality of foreign language instruction. The mainstay of the teacher output is provided by the government Rajaphat Universities (formerly Rajaphat Institutes), the traditional teacher training colleges in each province, where the acquired knowledge and competency at first degree level is often comparable to the level of an American senior High School graduation, a British A-level, a French Baccalauriat, or a German Abitur. Apart from the security of being a civil servant with guaranteed employment and a pension, and the extraordinary cultural respect for the profession, there is little incentive to choose a future as a teacher in a government school. As a result, most classes in secondary schools are overcrowded with often as many as sixty students in a classroom, a situation which continues to favour the rote system that is firmly anchored in Thai culture, as the only method possible.

Students, even those in primary schools, are becoming aware of the shortfalls in the quality of their state education, but their own culture prevents them from challenging the system. In total contrast to Chinese philosophy, students are not encouraged to develop analytical and critical thinking skills, which is clearly demonstrated by their inability to grasp the fundamentals of chess, grasp a notion through context, do a crossword puzzle, or follow the plot of a complex thriller or motion picture; indeed, to do so would be to expose their teachers to the embarrassment of losing face. Likewise, the teachers will avoid introducing dialogue into the classroom or eliciting response from the students - in spite of demonstrating enthusiasm, to give a wrong answer would be to lose face in the presence of one’s peers. Dr. Adith Cheosokul, Professor, Chulalongkorn University, September 1, 2002: “Thai kids have no courage to question their teachers… foreign students are very eager to communicate with their teachers. The Thais are usually silent in class. I think it’s the culture. Our students tend to uphold teachers as demi-gods.” As teaching by rote is also easy and requires little pedagogic skill, once qualified, - apart from weekend seminars which, being more fun than form, are considered to be part of the reward system - teachers tend to resist attempts to encourage them to engage in any forms of further training to improve their subject knowledge and to adopt new methodologies which will require them to use more initiative and to be more creative. Some teachers in secondary schools, particularly those in their 40's, consider the essential form of an English language lesson to be the delivery of a straight lecture, in Thai, on some obscure element of higher linguistics to a class of teenagers. Prime Minister Taksin Shinwatra, August 18, 2002: “Teachers must radically change their way of thinking - I’m not sure they can do this.” The essence of education therefore still hinges first and foremost on the traditional values of Buddhism, respect for the king, the monkhood, and the family, (in that order) through the rote method, and whilst indisputably very noble, these features are the main hurdle to the implementation of modern educational methodology and the development of a Western cultural approach to communication in order to strengthen the country’s credibility in the world’s cultural and political theatres, and to reinforce its position in the global market."

-Wikipedia, Education in Thailand 7/20/2008
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Old 20th July 2008, 12:47   #2 (permalink)
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Re: What is keeping the Thai education system down?

pretty spot-on.
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Old 20th July 2008, 12:52   #3 (permalink)
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Re: What is keeping the Thai education system down?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TarasBalba View Post
but their own culture prevents them from challenging the system.
In a nutshell. Do not question. The puu yai know everything. It would be un-Thai and impolite to point out where things are fucked up.
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Old 20th July 2008, 12:53   #4 (permalink)
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Re: What is keeping the Thai education system down?

Thanks for pointing out the obvious any chance of a suggestion of how to fix it?
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Old 20th July 2008, 12:55   #5 (permalink)
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Re: What is keeping the Thai education system down?

Make me Minister Of Education! I've got a big broom and and urge to do some spring cleaning.....
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Old 20th July 2008, 12:55   #6 (permalink)
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Re: What is keeping the Thai education system down?

^insanely slow progress might be the only way. culture is a hard thing to break...
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Old 20th July 2008, 13:07   #7 (permalink)
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Re: What is keeping the Thai education system down?

Quote:
Originally Posted by markle View Post
Thanks for pointing out the obvious any chance of a suggestion of how to fix it?
The intent of this thread was not to suggest how to fix the problems (futile), if any exist, but to see what teachers living in Thailand think about the underlying causes of those problems.
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Old 20th July 2008, 13:15   #8 (permalink)
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Re: What is keeping the Thai education system down?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TarasBalba View Post
"
...these features are the main hurdle to the implementation of modern educational methodology and the development of a Western cultural approach to communication in order to strengthen the country’s credibility in the world’s cultural and political theatres, and to reinforce its position in the global market."
yada, yada, yada, Thai culture is the root cause of the problems in Thai education...Western culture is superior, yada, yada, yada.

And why would Thais want to embrace a Western cultural approach? If anything, Thais will turn to embrace Chinese culture before renaming Thanon Sukhumvit as "Martin Luther King, Jr. Expressway."
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Old 20th July 2008, 13:18   #9 (permalink)
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Re: What is keeping the Thai education system down?

The wiki article pretty much covers it.
1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TarasBalba View Post
their own culture prevents them from challenging the system.
2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TarasBalba View Post
losing face
3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TarasBalba View Post
it’s the culture.
4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TarasBalba View Post
more fun than form
5.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TarasBalba View Post
rote method
Apart from that the system is hopelessly outdated. It's probably more suited to the industrial revolution era.

Having said that the reform act was an excellent step in the right direction and a good base to work from. There's no need for more legislation or more reform. The existing provision just has to be implemented properly, and not just to be seen to be implemented.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Mandude View Post
Western culture is superior, yada, yada, yada
The Thai education system was drawn largely from Western models around number 5's time. They have their own perfectly good curriculum, perfectly good education reform act to work from. They're just not using them very effectively.

Besides it might not be convenient or what anyone may want to admit, but Western education is better than the Thai system. They know it too. Why do the ones who can afford it send their children abroad to study? Why do they send them to international schools?

Last edited by robitusson; 20th July 2008 at 13:26. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 20th July 2008, 13:29   #10 (permalink)
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Re: What is keeping the Thai education system down?

The article pretty much hit the proverbial nail on the head. The problem is the MOE, TCT, culture, teachers teaching English that can't speak the language, the mindset of shut up, sit down, and listen. Students are silent because they are told to be silent. They cannot voice their opinion or question.
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Old 20th July 2008, 13:31   #11 (permalink)
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Re: What is keeping the Thai education system down?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Adith Cheosokul
The Thais are usually silent in class.
This quote about sums it up. Out of touch.

IME there are a number of problems with Thai teachers, firstly the initial starting wage at a government school is ca. 7k. This isn't going to attract high calibre applicants.

However, this is offset by the fact that it is a job for life, with other benefits. This in itself is fundamentally flawed, once a teacher has a job it's very difficult to lose it and hence senior teachers become untouchable, and thus see no reason to adopt new methods or even change their own outdated ones.

I face this on a daily basis. The head of science at my place, a very experienced and senior teacher, is so out of touch that it beggars belief. Any new ideas that she can't get her head round are ignored.

Another flaw is the curriculum. The BEC 2544 has very loosely defined learning outcomes as to allow schools to generate their own curricula as per expertise of staff. This doesn't work, certainly not at my school. Our science staff have a huge biology focus and my HoD wonders why S's do so badly in Physics.

This will be partly addressed with the introduction of a new curriculum next year.
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Old 20th July 2008, 13:34   #12 (permalink)
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Re: What is keeping the Thai education system down?

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Originally Posted by robitusson View Post

Western education is better than the Thai system. They know it too. Why do the ones who can afford it send their children abroad to study? Why do they send them to international schools?
Why do Thais consistently keep ajarn farang out of the school admin loop if they KNOW their system is inferior? Or are you going to refer me back to "losing face" point number 2?

I see Thai school management as a power hoarding scheme. The students are cannon fodder so the adults can play power games. It's hopeless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ralphlsasser View Post
The article pretty much hit the proverbial nail on the head. The problem is the MOE, TCT, culture, teachers teaching English that can't speak the language, the mindset of shut up, sit down, and listen. Students are silent because they are told to be silent. They cannot voice their opinion or question.
Yes. Hopeless.

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Originally Posted by TarasBalba View Post
The intent of this thread was not to suggest how to fix the problems (futile), if any exist, but to see what teachers living in Thailand think about the underlying causes of those problems.
Hopeless.

Last edited by Guy Mandude; 20th July 2008 at 13:36. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 20th July 2008, 13:44   #13 (permalink)
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Re: What is keeping the Thai education system down?

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Originally Posted by Guy Mandude View Post
Why do Thais consistently keep ajarn farang out of the school admin loop if they KNOW their system is inferior?
The farangs that are in Thailand in the teaching system are in no position to enter school admin. They're mostly hopelessly under qualified in terms of education and also ignorant of how best institutions here could be run.

There are more than enough people here who are well able to run a school properly anyway. They're inhibited from doing so for many reasons including those in the op's article.
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Old 20th July 2008, 13:59   #14 (permalink)
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Re: What is keeping the Thai education system down?

I really like everyone's responses. Those are definitely the major direct factors. However, doesn't it seem likely that if the MOE wanted to solve these problems that they have the authority to do so? I don't understand the intricacies of the MOE/school relationship, but can't they set standards for teachers and change curriculum?

It seems like even though most of my colleagues lack basic logical thinking skills, it should be possible to find a handful of Thai educators who do possess them and to promote them to the MOE.

The problems are so simple to solve that I can't help but feel like there must be some dark forces at work to keep future generations from developing critical thinking skills. The kind of critical thinking I'm talking about is to see Samak's interview on Al Jazeera and to know that the guy is a bully and a liar.

But to end on an optimistic note, our school lost a Chinese teacher last year who could not speak Chinese and we gained 3 new ones who can actually speak Chinese fairly well. Perhaps some of the new programs introduced to attract quality applicants into teaching are actually paying off. We will still have to wait a long time for the current crop of 40-50 something English teachers who can't speak English to retire before we can fill their shoes with teachers who might be able to speak English (cross fingers). Sadly, I think the morale of this younger batch is already going through the shitter because they realize how hopeless they are at teaching any Thais to speak Chinese.
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