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Thread: Native Speakers

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array kiwiling's Avatar
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    Re: Native Speakers

    Quote Originally Posted by kenkannif View Post
    The basic 'arbitary' standard seems to be skin colour......generally.
    In Thailand...why would that be?

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    Re: Native Speakers

    Quote Originally Posted by kenkannif View Post
    The basic 'arbitary' standard seems to be skin colour..
    That's it. 90% of the equation anyway.

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    swing you sinners! Array Mr. Hales's Avatar
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    Re: Native Speakers

    Quote Originally Posted by gvrixtel View Post
    And that is the easy way out, a road no real teacher should take.


    so what you gonna do...continue to do a monkey's job in a monkey's industry?

    go for it, enjoy yerself.
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  4. #34
    Striver Array Mr Pants's Avatar
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    Re: Native Speakers

    Quote Originally Posted by gvrixtel View Post
    But if so many people agree that some native speakers can't teach the English language, and so many people agree that there are certain nationals of non-native speaking countries able to teach the English language (even thai admit this), why isn't there a better selection system for qualified people. It can't be that difficult to come up with such a system.
    Does there need to be a system? Surely if the interviewer knows their stuff it should be fairly obvious who is qualified and who isn't. Questions like "can you put this sentence in the passive voice please?" or "what tense is this?" would quickly weed out a lot of the pretenders. That's before they get to the demo lesson stage.

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    Re: Native Speakers

    It would also depend on the position. If it was teaching conversation then asking a potential candidate a grammar question wouldn't be justified.

  6. #36
    Holy Diver Array robitusson's Avatar
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    Re: Native Speakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pants View Post
    Surely if the interviewer knows their stuff it should be fairly obvious who is qualified and who isn't.
    Except the guy who ends up doing the interviewing is the one who's stuck around the longest, and ended up in the admin job, and may not have a clue themself.

  7. #37
    Striver Array Mr Pants's Avatar
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    Re: Native Speakers

    Quote Originally Posted by fencesitter View Post
    It would also depend on the position. If it was teaching conversation then asking a potential candidate a grammar question wouldn't be justified
    Fair point

    But still a decent interviewer would easily be able to spot those trying to muddle through.

    Quote Originally Posted by robitusson View Post
    Except the guy who ends up doing the interviewing is the one who's stuck around the longest, and ended up in the admin job, and may not have a clue themself.
    Which is likely to be the case in at least 90% of Universities and government schools here. I had the feeling I got my job more because of my ability to charm the head of EP than because of my knowledge.

  8. #38
    Blah! Blah! Blah! Array kenkannif's Avatar
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    Re: Native Speakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pants View Post
    Does there need to be a system? Surely if the interviewer knows their stuff it should be fairly obvious who is qualified and who isn't. Questions like "can you put this sentence in the passive voice please?" or "what tense is this?" would quickly weed out a lot of the pretenders. That's before they get to the demo lesson stage.
    Tis a bit different now but:

    MoE don't really trust employers mate....so it's down to them really (the MoE that is).

    I went to the MoE to get my TL with a Swedish chap (fluent in English)! The lady there spoke so so English. So she's like to him 'you're Swedish, why is your English so good?' and he's like (and me as well) 'well in Sweden we use English a lot....blah blah blah' etc. And she's like 'yeah but I have to tell my boss WHY it's good....did you study in England etc.'....and he's like 'no'.....went on for a bit and she kept saying 'but I have to tell my boss WHY!!!'!!!

    Now it worked out okay in the end...but this could actually lead to a fluent non-native speaker of English being turned down as they've not lived in an English speaking country or studied there....and yet some bloke that lived in England but possibly never spoke English there being accepted.

    CRAZY huh? That's the problem when those in charge....don't have the ability to judge the ability.


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  9. #39
    Striver Array Mr Pants's Avatar
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    Re: Native Speakers

    Quote Originally Posted by kenkannif View Post
    Tis a bit different now but: MoE don't really trust employers mate....so it's down to them really (the MoE that is). I went to the MoE to get my TL with a Swedish chap (fluent in English)! The lady there spoke so so English. So she's like to him 'you're Swedish, why is your English so good?' and he's like (and me as well) 'well in Sweden we use English a lot....blah blah blah' etc. And she's like 'yeah but I have to tell my boss WHY it's good....did you study in England etc.'....and he's like 'no'.....went on for a bit and she kept saying 'but I have to tell my boss WHY!!!'!!! Now it worked out okay in the end...but this could actually lead to a fluent non-native speaker of English being turned down as they've not lived in an English speaking country or studied there....and yet some bloke that lived in England but possibly never spoke English there being accepted. CRAZY huh? That's the problem when those in charge....don't have the ability to judge the ability.
    Yep agreed. Ironically the best farang teacher this school has is Swedish - well that's my opinion anyway I dont know whether to laugh or cry when someone with inferior English is judging who a school's next teacher should be. It's no laughing matter though, when the people apparently responsible for the standards of teachers in this country can't speak the language fluently themselves.

  10. #40
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    Re: Native Speakers

    Quote Originally Posted by kenkannif View Post

    The basic 'arbitary' standard seems to be skin colour......generally.
    So if I get some Sun for 40 days and turn bronze my chances of geting a good gig are diminished?

    Not colour but race. Thais do have a choice of whom they'll accept, it's a limited choice tho. Africans will do in a pinch, at least they're a novelty. It might seem those they don't want the most are other Asians. Why is that? All I know is when I lived in Latin America I avoided other Gringos like a phat old sweaty German with a teen Thai hooker.

  11. #41
    Blah! Blah! Blah! Array kenkannif's Avatar
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    Re: Native Speakers

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny danger View Post
    So if I get some Sun for 40 days and turn bronze my chances of geting a good gig are diminished?
    Yes mate...to an extent.

    Not colour but race. Thais do have a choice of whom they'll accept, it's a limited choice tho. Africans will do in a pinch, at least they're a novelty. It might seem those they don't want the most are other Asians. Why is that? All I know is when I lived in Latin America I avoided other Gringos like a phat old sweaty German with a teen Thai hooker.
    I see what you're saying and yeah I suppose race would be a better one, but as per above....even just skin colour can be a problem!!! I bet if I golliwogged myself up (a la Robert Downey Junior) I'd limit my job options....and I ain't a black person (racially that is.....as obviously I would be black).

    And also JD...I bet albino err....what do we call them that's not offensive....negroes....wouldn't struggle so much...flat nose, big lips, fuzzy hair....et al!!!
    Last edited by kenkannif; 7th August 2008 at 16:26. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Re: Native Speakers

    Then it's looks. Anyone from any race who was good looking might pass? I think that's true.

    Same for our choice of girls isn't it?
    Last edited by jonny danger; 7th August 2008 at 16:37. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  13. #43
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    Re: Native Speakers

    Quote Originally Posted by robitusson View Post
    Except the guy who ends up doing the interviewing is the one who's stuck around the longest, and ended up in the admin job, and may not have a clue themself.
    Well it would be nice if we, non-native speakers, would even make it to an interview. At one interview i got told i'd better leave, because i wasn't a native speaker. The lady (sometime it isnt a guy) admitted i spoke better English as the English candidate and was better qualified as that guy, but just because my passport wasnt from an English native speaking country.
    At an other school they asked me if i was willing to take the same pay as an Thai teacher who couldnt even make one correct sentence. Just because of my passport.
    The only way we often get invited for interviews is when we know someone inside the institute.


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    Re: Native Speakers

    In terms of Ireland, Irish is officially the national language but there are only about 50,000 people in the country who speak it constantly on a day to day basis far far less than other European countries like Holland, France, Germany etc. Everyone else in the country is speaking English as their native language just as naturally as an English person.

  15. #45
    swing you sinners! Array Mr. Hales's Avatar
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    Re: Native Speakers

    Quote Originally Posted by gvrixtel View Post
    The lady (sometime it isnt a guy) admitted i spoke better English as the English candidate and was better qualified as that guy, but just because my passport wasnt from an English native speaking country. At an other school they asked me if i was willing to take the same pay as an Thai teacher who couldnt even make one correct sentence. Just because of my passport.
    respectfully, the places you applied to sound shit and ran by incompetents. if you'd like to work there then by all means go for it.

    however, if you're as qualified and as good as you say you are then you'll have much better places to try eh!

    good luck.

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