Thread: Time to Fight Back -- Compiling Evidence that the TCT tests are a sham to exploit us

Originally Posted by Ramalamadingdong

... it's a frickin joke! I just doubt that there are any MOE or TCT people conspiring into the night to suck 4,000 Baht out of us. (Yes, I know there are other expenses outside of the 4 part exam.)

In my experience, people at The MOE are overwhelmed with too much work. This is what I think (probably) happened with the 4 part exams:

1) Immigration got pressure from PM office to stop allowing child molesters to teach

This is possible, but the Teachers Council and Educational Personnel Act was implemented in 2003, about 3-4 years prior to that known suspected molester, although it has got tighter recently. Some evidence, like, the question of "Windows 97" seems to suggest that the TCT has not updated their questions since the implementation in 2003. It's a mere unprofessionalism.

Originally Posted by Ramalamadingdong

.................................................. ...........................................
5) The MOE/TCT actually administers this test, oblivious to the fact that even people with a Masters in Ed.
could not pass it, because many questions don't make ANY sense due to poor translation, many questions
would ONLY be known to a Thai person and many questions have NOTHING to do with teaching.

This is for a fact. I have taken the second section on "Curriculum Development, Learning Management and Classroom Management" and am familiar with the terms as they are used in my educ grad courses. I was the last one to complete the test at 4PM when everybody else left at about 3:15PM on Friday. Two of those proctors asked me whether the test was really difficult, and I told them that even a specialist in Education (MA or PhD) can't pass the test due to the poor construction of questions and lack of validity, that is, they are supposed to measure what is to be measured. The multiple choices are just too long--2 lines each choice--that after finishing reading the whole question (which is limited to 1 minute for each very long item), one's mind may wonder what the question is all about, and has to go back reading before finally deciding for the answer. Among 29 testers in Bangkok, my late presence should leave an impression that there was something wrong with the test. What a complete JOKE!

Originally Posted by Ramalamadingdong

I'd be VERY surprised if it's all a grand scheme to fleece us out of our money. I just don't think they're organized or industrious enough to pull something like that off.

TCT should have been wiser to organize such professional tests for teachers. This seems to be a disservice to the MOE. I hope there will be an independent specialist of organization to look into the validity of the tests.

Originally Posted by Ramalamadingdong

__________________________________________________ ___________________________________________
Here are a few of the irrelevant questions that were on the 4 part test:
- Which Thai King revolutionized the Thai educational system? (Should be in The Culture Course instead!)
- Which number is the most beautiful? (Translated verbatim from Thai, irrelevant to teaching and unknown to a foreigner.)
- If a Thai parent gives incorrect personal information, about their child, to their child's school, how much can that parent be

Another irrelevant question:
-Which period in Thailand accepted materialism?

Originally Posted by Ramalamadingdong

They hire someone's 25 year old niece, who went to UCLA for two semesters

My niece is in UCLA right now, she's a sophomore.

I rarely post on Ajarn Forum or visit unless one of my teachers points me to a particular thread. Nothing against the forum but just never have the time I would like in order to catch up. I must say though...the moderator/admin has done a great job updating it.

Regarding the test, I felt I had to add my 2 cents since I am going to have to require others to complete this test due to regulations beyond my control.

All the items listed in this thread are true in that the grammar was not correct, there were typos throughout (i.e. using the word on instead of an), ambiguous questions, duplicate multiple choices answers, etc. One thing that was not mentioned and that I brought up to the invigilators was the fact that most of the questions (especially in the Educational Psychology test) were subjective. Most began with "What do you think...", "Which do you feel...", etc. For Example: What do you think Thai students will be like in the future? Whenever asking for someone’s opinion, there is never a right or wrong answer.

I think the tests, if redone, do have some merit. That being said…if a teachers career/job are at stake based on the outcome of these tests, the TCT should take a more detailed and dedicated approach to make sure the faults are corrected and to remove or alter the ambiguous and subjective test questions. My suggestion was to have a committee of foreign teachers review and correct the test for the TCT.

Regardless, I don't think it is constructive to make this a cultural issue. Focus on the test and the corrections needed because, in the end, it is perfect reasonable to ask for some sort of testing by government organizations overseeing/monitoring a public profession. This is done in many countries. Keep in mind I said 'reasonable'...not 'prudent'. I say this because of the current recruitment/staffing issues facing most countries with regards to teachers.

Michael

Originally Posted by i1der

My niece is in UCLA right now, she's a sophomore.

Well, if she finishes her degree and masters the English language enough to do a decent English to Thai translating job, I know a few people at The MOE!

Just kidding by the way, I'm sure your niece is a smart girl!

Quite frankly the use of multiple choice questions to measure any kind of knowledge or thinking is just because the people setting the tests don't understand their own subjects properly in most cases and/or are lazy in the extreme.

I agree with some kind of test but I stress that any test must follow the two basic principles of reliability and validity that surely the TCT must understand?????

Why oh why do they not contact some western teachers who are qualified to help sort out this mess. I fear that until they do, it will remain FUBAR.

Originally Posted by haltest

Why oh why do they not contact some western teachers who are qualified to help sort out this mess?

Ashamed....insecure....arrogant......don't actually give a fuck?

I can sympathise, animaster.

I did all four tests, and the standard didn't improve. Test 4 ('Educational psychology' and 'Teachership') included questions that were not ever going to be relevant to a foreign teacher, such as knowing the correct name of the Govt. organisation responsible for inspecting the "admissions" of a school. Plainly stuff for Thai teachers, not foreigners.

Typos, g aps and sp aces where they weren't needed, ambiguous questions and odd vocabulary choices (Have you "edified" your students recently?) show a lack of professionalism, and it's quite clear that no native speaker was asked to proofread the tests.

The thing that really annoyed me was that I was never once asked to produce any ID. I took with me (as instructed) a completed online application form, recent passport sized photos, my Krung Thai Bank test fee receipt, copies of my passport and WP.... and the test supervisors never asked me for them. All I had to do was sign my name on the list of candidates at each test.

Once only (before Test 4) the supervisor asked me, pointing to my name (and seat number) on the candidate list 'Is this you?'. I replied "Yes'... as if they would have known if I had asked a friend to sit the tests for me.

So lets say (by a miracle) that I passed all four tests, how can the TCT know that the person they are now issuing a Teacher's Licence, as a qualified person to teach in LoS, is actually the same one who sat the tests?

Answer: They can't.

Idiots.


This is the body charged with ensuring that foreign teachers in Thailand meet the required professional standards as teachers, and they can't set and administer tests at anything like a professional level. Given the content of the tests (professional ethics, curriculum theory, evaluation and assessment, teachership and so forth) this makes them effectively hypocrites.


{here endeth the rant }

Originally Posted by Ramalamadingdong

I'm sure your niece is a smart girl!

She is.

Originally Posted by MGHines

My suggestion was to have a committee of foreign teachers review and correct the test for the TCT.

good suggestion, I concur.

Originally Posted by Chainfish

I can sympathise, animaster.

I did all four tests, and the standard didn't improve. Test 4 ('Educational psychology' and 'Teachership') included questions that were not ever going to be relevant to a foreign teacher, such as knowing the correct name of the Govt. organisation responsible for inspecting the "admissions" of a school. Plainly stuff for Thai teachers, not foreigners.

Typos, g aps and sp aces where they weren't needed, ambiguous questions and odd vocabulary choices (Have you "edified" your students recently?) show a lack of professionalism, and it's quite clear that no native speaker was asked to proofread the tests.

The thing that really annoyed me was that I was never once asked to produce any ID. I took with me (as instructed) a completed online application form, recent passport sized photos, my Krung Thai Bank test fee receipt, copies of my passport and WP.... and the test supervisors never asked me for them. All I had to do was sign my name on the list of candidates at each test.

Once only (before Test 4) the supervisor asked me, pointing to my name (and seat number) on the candidate list 'Is this you?'. I replied "Yes'... as if they would have known if I had asked a friend to sit the tests for me.

So lets say (by a miracle) that I passed all four tests, how can the TCT know that the person they are now issuing a Teacher's Licence, as a qualified person to teach in LoS, is actually the same one who sat the tests?

Answer: They can't.

Idiots.


This is the body charged with ensuring that foreign teachers in Thailand meet the required professional standards as teachers, and they can't set and administer tests at anything like a professional level. Given the content of the tests (professional ethics, curriculum theory, evaluation and assessment, teachership and so forth) this makes them effectively hypocrites.


{here endeth the rant }

WHOOPS?! There you go - forgot to include that! Thanks for bringing that up, Chainfish. You're right -- they DIDN'T ask for the application form! Although they went around, checked our passports and had us sign a sheet of paper, let me just add that that sheet of paper had your-typical-thai-amount-of-space for your signature - a small box no bigger than 1x2 cm. So your own signature could look like anyone did it; or anyone can sign for you and get away with it.

Thanks again Chainfish... this is actually one of the bigger points, as you've mentioned -- it means there's a serious flaw in their validation system. So I suppose it's alright to question our professionalism and all that while providing absolutely no security or insurance when handling our data. Speaking of security:

13.) The TCT website specifically said to bring an HB pencil for the test. But on the front of the test booklet it says to use blue or black ink. One person asked a test officer if he should use pencil or a pen. The officer told him "Use the pen, INCASE SOMEONE WANTS TO CHANGE YOUR ANSWERS" As the guy was telling us -- "WHY AND WHO WOULD WANT TO CHANGE MY ANSWERS??" Security anyone? I guess you can't blame the Thai staff for speaking out of their minds, but... who knows?

Looking at the overall global trend, I would expect things to get even stricter. In time it will be a requirement to show not just a certain level of competence/knowledge BUT also a requirement to show ongoing development. It's certainly an interesting topic and one that is already coming into the UK system and is already there in some parts of the US. I would expect it to hit Thailand eventually too....

"England's General Teaching Council (GTC) has instigated a scheme to accredit professional development providers under a Teacher Learning Academy (TLA) program. These plans also coincide with changes to performance management regulations that require teacher professional development be tied to salary." Times Educational Supplement; 10/26/2007 Issue 4760