none of these things really.Originally Posted by russellsimpson
it's cultural. kids and there parents have no respect for learning and teachers.in a world dominated, for many, byt millionaire celebrities there is no apparent incentive in learning. look at the richest and most exposed celebs. they made millions either by being skinny and pretty or by kicking a leather ball about. none of them got there by learning, by studying. so school becomes irrelevant.
chuck this in with the "my kid is precious" and you've got a systmem that ain't gonna work.
"vast and black. the thing that was poised, like a crow over the moon. round and smooth. cannon balls. things that have fallen from the sky to this earth. our slippery brains. things like cannon balls have fallen, in storms, upon this earth. like cannon balls are things that, in storms, have fallen to this earth. showers of blood. showers of blood. showers of blood. " c.f.
Too true, Russ. Perhaps those that design and oversight education should be made to come in and be talked to by the kids as the kids talk to their teachers or someone should be sent into their offices and just call them F...g c...t for an hour or two a day every day for a month. Those who run the system wouldn't be allowed to do anything but listen to it.
I wonder how soon they might think about making some changes?
Last edited by Rocksteady; 28th May 2010 at 14:57.
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The West does seem to have given a lot of leeway to the ideal of individualism (Hollywood movies are rife with nonsensical 'one man against the world' plotlines) and 'heroes' who conveniently confuse their questionable actions with their rights, while ignoring wider responsibilities. Lethal Weapon films spring immediately to mind for some reason.
No amount of government legislation can make children behave appropriately when their gas tanks are full of sugar and their heads are full of noise, and pop-culture-inspired, anti-social, egotistical nonsense.
There are few problems in life that cannot be solved with toast.
One of them, however, is opening a can of corned beef with that stupid key. This cannot easily be done at the best of times, and toast is of surprisingly little use in resolving the issue.
Last Friady night I went out with a few friends from work and had a few drinks in the town we teach in. Uneventful evening ... Except a car went past us (meaning several groups on different sides of the road)(squealing wheels at a pase) and someone yelled out and I turned and yelled out Yeag gid'day have a good night in a medium voice. Somehow all of this translated as me walking out on the road and stopping a car load of students and opening their door and yelling profanities and asking if their were girls in the car and saying all students at my school can get fucked. Monday teachers brought me rumors so I asked my boss he scheduled meeting for next morning ...Tuesday ..So Steve , on the mat confronted with partial stories by a new boss on the block. Said boss wasn't interested in hearing from others who were there and just closed the matter. How ever rumors persisted and normal friendly stares have turned into stares of comdenation within the small town. Boss away for a couple of days and all sorts of rumors are flying.I Sent email asking for advice on how to proceed further and wether a mediation session with the students making the accusations and their parents . I caught him today as I was leaving school he asked if I could meet him before school on Monday. HOW SHOULD I PROCEED ? This guys is 33 and has 2 years chalk face experience and has the gift of the gab and is heading for the top.Knocked out good proven people with experience out of the job
Sadly, a lot of truth there, Mr H. Why study hard when you can become the next Susan Boyle or Jade Goody?
eeexactly.
people want a quick fix. education is very uncool.
This is largely in response to the original posted article at the top of the page, ( i do hate when you click on rely and the whole reply you post somehow appears totally out of Kilter with the original article when you click on reply in that box, as it were).
I will tell you why this is the case , shall I.
The reason is that most of the kids are UK born kids who know the rules and the legislation that namby pamby PC cord wearing social worker types have put into place in this country over the last 30 or so years under the conservative and labour Govt's we have had in power ( God knows what a Tory / Lib dem gov't will put in place), and that they cannot be touched by a teacher or even restrained when necessary.
I do realise that a level of punishment has to be be established and also a level of force. In my schooldays we had teachers throwing board dusters at us or smacking us across the back of the hand with the edge of a steel ruler ( potentialy very harmfull) , i even had the cane a number of times , and on one occassion was violently hit across the head by a psychotic chemistry teacher for turning off a dripping tap after he had told us to 'stop f***ing about with stuff', in the lab. Following the strike across my head, the other four class mates next to me on their high lab chairs also went down like a pack of dominoes. And all this following my recent eye operation some 4-6 weeks previously, which then resulted in me having to undergo a detached retina op at the age of 13, and also before laser surgery ( yes , hell of a thing to have all his physical activities in school postponed for a year following the op for a really good sporty kid). Yet I have not grown up begrudging that system. I was punished and yet sometimes despised my teachers but still respected their authority over me.
So what is my point?
My point in relation to your comment, is that the kids from other countries you have listed above, is that these kids have also been through one hell of a time and probably through school systems that were not as PC and Namby pamby as the system that now exists in the UK today, and they are probably still very concious of the fact that if they do wrong they could still be punished as before, and that the main reason they bahave better in school is that they know to succeed and get out of the poverty trap to which thay belonged, is to behave in school, and get on.
Also , I have recently become a very good friend to a black South African Paediatric Nurse from a region in the North of the Country where she lives in a small township, and see kids who have also been through real hellish upbringings, violence and rape. Yet when these kids are brought into a caring environment where they know their lives can be improved, they very often flourish and for some reason don't seem to carry so much mental damage with them. Why is that?
When we once talked about this ( a study she is actually doing as a post grad study) we came to the conclusion that a lot of it is down to a lack of discipine in the UK (because we cannot discipline them by Law), and the amount of peer entertainment that is now available to kids in the UK on TV and Radio (Radio 1 I also Believe Nowadays) and computer games and internet chatting sites, which allow them to discuss what they can or can't be doing or even worse , what they should be doing ( the amount of 14 - 18 yr olds i currently know who are experimenting with drugs and openly discussing their gay sex lives is astounding ).
In the UK, we are now encouraging people to live lives of degredation and unemployment and drug taking without any serious consequences , to the point that they are happy with their lives and the ability to just get by, which subsequently reflects on generation after generation that these people produce and lead by example. Therfore they have no respect for authority or of any one else.
If you want an example of how this is true, then the most extreme example of how to treat our stock and recover this country from its social decline among its youth, then i suggest we look towards the Far East and how they treat social deviency, Singapore in particular.
Dai
Last edited by daiwill60; 29th May 2010 at 07:42.
If you're going to teach and drink in a small town keep it damned damned low key.
I sounds like you didn't do that.
I think your only approach is on bended knee with the appropriate apology.
I don't think you have any leg to stand on so accept that and demonstrate the appropriate humility.
Good luck with it.
It's a damn hard lesson to learn.
---Update---
Actually popeye, you should start a thread for advice.
it's going to get lost here.
Or maybe a mod will split it out for you
---Update---
You do make some good points in there.
Very thoughfull.
Hopefully the pendelum has swung as far as it is going to and we will get back to a more structured society in general and school system in particular.
As far as looking to the robotic mind set of the East, I would give that a very wide berth, as that too carries it's own inherent downsided possibly worse than having to deal with challenging discipline problems.
“America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.”
―
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Well we did it 1979 after Labour messed things up, I can see no reason why we won't invest the time and energy into improving it again.
Dai, an excellent post with some astute observations. I grew up on cusp and between systems, so to speak. The last of the rote learning generations where teachers held sway through fear of punishment and generally supported by parents who had been conditioned to see the world that way. Though they later denied it, my own parents told me not to complain if the teacher hit me as they would dish out double (having said that, my father was a senior govenor at both the primary and secondary schools we (my siblings) attended. So he may have had a hidden agenda.
Like Russ, I hope the pendulum isn't going to swing much further though it doesn't look like stable times are coming in the near future. If major changes aren't put into place in this generation then it will mean having to establish a very authoritarian regime to bring back some order to the current chaos, I'm afraid
It may help if people stopped blaming the system and society. People are all to keen to jump on bandwagons instead of taking a good hard look at themselves.
I have no figures to back up this claim, but I'm going ahead with it because I believe it to be true. Responsible parents, in the main, bring up responsible kids. I think the system should play a bigger role in making this happen.
Irresponsible parents, and as a consequence, their children, get away with murder and the system should play a bigger role in ensuring this doesn't happen.
As usual I will go against the flow here with something else, I am no namby pamby liberal but I find Daiwill's post disturbing. I would go further to say that if he is a parent there is nothing in the post the tells me he is a responsible one.
If this doesn't break some rules here, it should.
what about blaming political parties? like this -
doesn't seem all that helpful either.
We did it was far more important than the fact that they messed things up in that statement.
I will try to make it clearer for you, we know Labour messed up the education system in the 70's but we did something about it.
My point is, recognise whatever you want, but don't just sit back and bleat about it, do something.
oh i am mate, i'm in the u.k. working in the education field.
and you?
Firstly I have no idea what you think is right. It's my belief that many of the extreme left wing teachers have left and continue to leave ugly scars in the education system. Alas these people will tell you they are doing something about the 'problems'.
To be honest some of what I see from you here makes me shudder to think what you could be teaching people. You are however a Jeckll and Hyde character, so I can also see a side that is switched on.
You seem to be implying that I should also be doing something. I left England over 10 years ago, I really have nothing to offer. Should I return, that would change.
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