Thailand's dismal English-language education

**zeusbheld** · 23rd March 2012 20:16

Originally Posted by haltest

Is it the students or the fact that Thai schools will employ any Tom, Dick or Harry to teach English in schools?

yes.

---Update---

Originally Posted by Don Ho

In my school I've noticed that the M1 students are, on average, better than the exiting M6 students. Having taught every level except M5 now I can safely say that the level of English deteriorates with each year at the school.

i suspect part of it is also 'brain drain.' most of the better students will migrate to better schools around m4 time, and the ones that don't make the cut elsewhere will drift in. my school routinely produces brilliant prathom satudents and shitbird mathayom 4-6 students (with a few glittering exceptions).

**yoots** · 24th March 2012 07:54

Originally Posted by Teachermark

Originally Posted by yoots
MEP program.....P5 and P6. They were quite good already when I took them over and the best students could ask lots of questions and keep up a simple conversation fluently.
That could be said of any E.P. At least the ones I've experienced. However ... the bulk of Thai students are not in EPs. Hence the topic of this thread.

The topic of this thread is Thailand's dismal English language education which is dismal because Thais try to teach English.
I was referring to your remark that "Thais are stupid and lazy" - my point was that if you teach them right, they'll learn. I blame the Thai teachers. You can't teach what you don't know.
When I was introduced to the "English Department" at the local high school, the "English teachers" couldn't even answer simple questions like: "How long have you been teaching here?"

**Teachermark** · 24th March 2012 08:09

Originally Posted by yoots

The topic of this thread is Thailand's dismal English language education which is dismal because Thais try to teach English.

Which is NOT the case in EPs. Got it now?

But even in EPs ... the problem below still influences. **

Originally Posted by yoots

I was referring to your remark that "Thais are stupid and lazy"

A bit of a Joke. That's why I used the word "generalisation"

** What is no joke however is how you totally ignored the "No Fail System" which causes students who are prone to be lazy anyway (a generalised Thai characteristic) to be even lazier. The Thai teachers English ability isn't really the main problem. The problem lies in the overall system.

**yoots** · 24th March 2012 09:02

Originally Posted by Teachermark

Which is NOT the case in EPs. Got it now?

Sure did. What I don't get is why you continue to bring up EP when the topic is Thailand's dismal English.

I admit that I quoted your "Thais are stupid and lazy" comment somewhat out of context. It was obvious that it doesn't reflect your opinion.

**Teachermark** · 24th March 2012 09:11

Originally Posted by yoots

What I don't get is why you continue to bring up EP

Maybe because of this ...

Originally Posted by yoots

In the small village where I lived (one traffic light, one 7/11) one school started an MEP program. In the first year one foreign teacher taught P1 students. In the next year two teachers taught P1 and P2. I joined in when the first class had farang teachers for four years and taught the same class for two years, P5 and P6. They were quite good already when I took them over and the best students could ask lots of questions and keep up a simple conversation fluently.

... but I'd hardly describe "twice" (in response to your posts only) as "continue to"

**goo_stewart** · 24th March 2012 09:58

Originally Posted by yoots

I've heard Thais say often enough that : "You're in Thailand, speak Thai!"

Seriously, you are destroying any semblance of an argument with that comment. It just shows naivety. I have lived in Thailand a long time and I have never heard this once. Indeed, if you interact with Thais and want to speak Thai, one of the most frustrating things is that most Thais will sapeak English, even if their grasp of the language stretches to a couple of words (usually 'hey' and 'you').

Seriously (as a generalisation - as that is all we have to cling to), Thais do not think that whities should sapeak Thai in Thailand, it just isn't in their terms of reference, in fact it conflicts with their learning of 'Thainess' and all the elephants in the room those traits bring. Thais learn, at an early age, that 'Thainess' is special and can only be given through birth. Guess what one of those Thainess traits is?

**Teachermark** · 24th March 2012 10:03

Originally Posted by goo_stewart

It just shows naivety.

Honest to God. I was thinking just 5 minutes ago that he had a "general air of naivety". Nothing I could poke a hard finger at ... just "overall"

re- "You're in Thailand, speak Thai!"

Originally Posted by goo_stewart

I have lived in Thailand a long time and I have never heard this once.

Same here.

Originally Posted by Teachermark

I've never heard that ... in 20 odd years in and out of Thailand.

**yoots** · 24th March 2012 11:11

I give up! I don't see any sense in arguing with you, explaining myself, and reading your judgements about me.

I've felt it earlier and tried to participate, but it just doesn't work.

No big deal, there are other websites I enjoy for years (even though you guys don't believe that).

We won't miss each other!

**Thaitanium** · 24th March 2012 11:17

I hope you don't give up on your students so easily...

You lose one argument and you're leaving the forum?...that's akin to having one out of fifteen classes go bad and leaving the school...

The problems with Thailands English education are the same as the problems with Thailands general education...they are systemic and fundamental and not the result of any singular issue, outside of culture...

**Fleabag** · 24th March 2012 13:29

He said he worked in an Isaan village. It's true there that to get along with folks, make a good impression and generally get practical things done on a day to day basis... that in an Isaan village one needs to speak some Thai and indeed there will be many Thais here who will expect you to speak in their language, even the Isaan dialect, or at the very least, make the sensible point to the farang that to get by they'll need to pick up some language; but to "expect" you to know their language often says more about what English the Thai knows than it does about their attitude to westerners in Thailand.

Perhaps trying to express this is where yoots seems to be going a bit wrong and assuming it means that Thais think westerners here should learn their language.

I found even the ones that jabber at you in paasaa Isaan don't really expect you to understand, and that's even a part of it all. Why indeed would a stupid farang understand? But if he does that's a big deal... and look: it even drinks whiskey!

There are a number of ways of examining this issue but generally I don't think farangs are supposed to know Thai. If they want to survive an Isaan village though, they're going to have to learn some.

Of course there will be cases where a Thai thinks the farang is in their country so they should be speaking Thai, but many times surely this is down to a bad attitude in the farang more than expectation on the part of the Thai that farangs here should know their language.

**Penny wise** · 29th March 2012 20:43

Some of the comments here made me laugh.... Just because that English is your native language and you teach it, doesn't mean that you know it all. As a Thai, it's kinda fun to read tho :-)

**jonny danger** · 29th March 2012 21:14

Originally Posted by Penny wise

Just because that English is your native language and you teach it, doesn't mean that you know it all. As a Thai, it's kinda fun to read tho :-)

You're a good example of that. Although your grammar sucks I can still understand what you wrote.

**Penny wise** · 29th March 2012 21:52

Oh o

So my grammar sucks huh? I actually work in one of the top tier international school in bkk. Would love to criticize your second language grammar! Oh wait u already speak English so no need to learn another language right? Hehe