What would you recommend for someone who has been teaching for years without a certificate? CELTA seems a bit newbie-oriented but is widely recognised. LTTC doesn't seem to be at all recognised in Thailand and employers might look down their nose at it being an online qualification but it's cheaper and more suitable for someone with experience and sounds grander. One other option is not to do either because with years of experience a certificate will make no difference to one's employment prospects. Your thoughts?
it isn't likely to make a difference in Thailand. i've yet to hear of anyone asking for one. however, some places, such as the middle east, have employers that want such things. CELTA's probably better for that because it's better known.
Imodium can't stop me.
Put down your arrogance and do a CELTA.
If you've never studied how to teach it will probably do you some good. Even though you've been 'teaching' for years.
Guy Manpoof sux nuts for $$.
Tomcat trained. Satisfaction guaranteed.
^That is probably true, but what is even more true is that learning how to teach on your own after getting some experience will do you some serious good too. I'm not sure where this need to spend money to get good at something via a class came from anyway, really. Anyway, I will forever advise on this question to just come over, dont spend any money for these employers, you will understand when you get here (they wont spend a dime on you). If you want to be a good teacher, as mentioned that is easy as well for those so inclined.
Resident Troll.
No it won't. It will probably get you into the habit of doing things incorrectly, but thinking it's all good, then thinking yourself too good for a basic foundation based teaching course.Originally Posted by meand
Human arrogance is really quite amazing.
Well you can type.
Are you not moonlighting as a well paid computer programmer or software developer?
All they do is type, after all.
To do their own research...
Do you have coke?
To assume makes an ASS out of U and ME. In fact I was trained and mentored in my home country by people with more experience, knowledge and expertise than your average CELTA trainer.
---Update---
Most of the good employers in Thailand seem to require at least a degree + certificate. I just wonder how choosy they are about the latter.
Those are some very revealing arguments. IF you can't figure out how to do something well on your own, you need help, seriously. The only real reason these classes exist is because people can't get motivated to figure it out themselves otherwise (and to make money of course)... you think there is some secret stuff that can only be taught via a classroom environment or something?? If not, what is your argument? If you can't learn on your own before and then after having some experience you are either too dumb or too lazy anyway.
To end, who would make the better teacher, a person who takes a CELTA, or a person who has a burning desire to learn how to teach and doesn't take it? I'm sure we know your answer, but in reality it is case closed as to who will actually be the better teacher (just go have a gander at all the backpackers that have taken celta for some evidence).
i wouldn't go that far but i think it's fair to say it's at least possible to learn pretty much anything on your own without a proper degree, including stuff that requires a credential to practice like medical illustration. of course, a self-taught medical illustrator has a big problem staying in the profession without that credential.
Perfect Present's assumption that humans can't learn from experience is a bit baffling. if someone didn't figure it out the first time there wouldn't BE a course. that said, i've heard good things about the CELTA from people who've taken it (and my impression of the people in question is that they were conspicuously not idiots), and if you have money kicking around and want to be a better teacher it could possibly help, even if you've been teaching a while. also, as i believe i mentioned before, if you want to teach EFL outside of Thailand (the Middle East in particular) they ask for an 120-hour course, and some employers even say they require it.
never seen this. can you name ONE employer that requires a certificate? i've not seen one even advertise they required it, and i've never heard of anyone who gets paid better for having any certificate, CELTA or otherwise. i'm not saying such an employer doesn't exist but i'd like to see at least one example as i've never seen even one.
if you really want to impress 'good employers' get a teaching credential from your home country.
You've really never seen this? I would say most jobs advertised here ask for a certificate. I just clicked on the first employer advertising for a Native English teacher and these are the requirements (from London House School of English - a bog standard job in Chiang Mai):
The applicant profile should be as follows:
•Male or Female Teacher aged above 21
•Bachelor’s degree (for work permit).
•Teaching qualification certificate (TEFL).
•Native level proficiency in English.
•Experience in teaching young learners is desirable.
•Able to attend an interview.
^
they left off 'pulse'.
i suspect you're right but i probably missed 'em as i haven't tended to look for a bog standard job. teaching jobs aren't exactly hard to get in Thailand, so i suspect with a lot of these language academies even a pulse is optional. i looked at the teaching jobs offering 50k + on the Ajarn ads and only one asked for a certificate (several expect a legit teaching credential, however, and some even stipulate that certificates don't count).
bottom line though if you're not going to get over 40k anyway, why spend the money? it won't get you more money or a better job. if you want to be a 'real' teacher' get a 'real' credential, although this may mean spending a lot of money or going back to your home nation to study and do your observed teaching. this won't necessarily make you a better teacher either (although if you do the work honestly it should, as should the CELTA), but it will at least give you a legit credential and more options.
That sums things up nicely as far as i'm concerned.
yeah looking at it pragmatically, if planning to teach in Thailand without a 'proper' teaching credential for the rest of your life, you'd be better off spending your time and energy on passing the teaching license tests. then if you really want to be a better teacher you can figure it out without benefit of CELTA.
forgot to comment on this before, but it's relevant, i think: it turns out that a significant percentage of software developers aren't Cal Tech grads, MIT grads, or anything of the sort but instead are college dropouts or even self-taught...
^I am going way off topic here, because I find it interesting, but I will swear that people, in general, just simply aren't good at learning without a structured class. If people aren't somehow compelled, in a way, to do something, there is no real self motivation there to actually do it. In other words, classes are for people that don't actually care very much in my opinion. They want to care, but they don't really. If they did, they could do it without the classes for sure (and would probably be busy just doing whatever it was instead of signing up for classes etc). Now, of course that same person could do it with classes as well, but i'd hope my point would be understood.... essentially that learning to turn yourself into a top notch anything, is necessarily going to be done by yourself for the most part. Anyway.... i'll tune out as i'm fully aware i'm not adding anything of actual use except for interests of my own, ha. Forgive any of my differences, as some are stated in jest, others by my own intrigue, but arguing here is essentially ridiculous, so excuse me (to i forget his name?) is the point
Last edited by meand; 29th July 2012 at 19:39.
this is true in many cases. i think it's largely a byproduct of our success as a species. while i might get some love from the DoS if i take over the spreadsheet crafting, and maybe even a tiny raise, et's face it. i'm not going to starve if i don't get better at using formulas in excel.
classes can be a shortcut, so you don't have to reinvent the wheel, and a really good class can be more useful as a chance to network than what you might learn. doesn't matter how good a teacher (or programmer) you are if you live in a cave in Tora Bora (with no internet, even) and never talk to anyone.
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