Negative point defender. You missed the point that's for sure. why take the job if the pay is quote doodoo. Surely you get a feel for a school at the interview stage. If you don't feel right about the job don't take it.
Posted after 26 minutes 7 seconds:
You don't have to work for doodoo. You don't have to work at a school that treats you like If you don't like the salary then don't take the job. If the school doesn't feel right don't take the job. Back to freedom of choice. If you do take a salary and a school you only have yourself to blame. It is no good tring to shut the stable door when the horse has bolted.
Sorry mate you're going around in circles, some people take poorly paid jobs, some look out for better paid jobs. If I take a low-paid job does that mean I should expect to be treated badly? If I am treated badly am I not allowed to forewarn other teachers about bad treatment?
What about the schools that go out of their way to make themselves look great, pay good salaries, but then hold back pay, change contracts or offer terrible working conditions?
All I'm saying is that we should all appreciate whatever access to any information that there is - we can take it all in and, as you rightly suggest, make up our own minds whether or not we take the job!
Excuse me for not taking this seriously .....
barcaman, what do you understand defender's point-of-view to be?
Great point Defender.Let us see the proof of what they are saying. Not just someone letting off steam because they think they are hard done by or have a grudge against someone.All I'm saying is that we should all appreciate whatever access to any information that there is - we can take it all in and, as you rightly suggest, make up our own minds whether or not we take the job!
Posted after 2 minutes 53 seconds:
We are getting there. I think we both want the same thing out of this site.barcaman, what do you understand defender's point-of-view to be?
If you can keep your head when all around you others are losing theirs. You don't know what the fuck is going on.
Impossible. How can we prove anything beyond doubt online?
People read the BBC website and believe it - it's the BBC! People read Teflwatch.org and are free to decide whether they believe what they say or not based on how they view the site.
Some posts are articulate and informative, others are clearly bitter rants - we are adults and can evaluate what we read wherever we read it. It seems to me that you are implying that nothing should be published on the site without clear evidence. It would be a bizarre world if people weren't allowed to chat and share experiences without iron-clad proof.
You can't believe everything you read, that's for sure - anyone who reads anything and believes it all at face value is an idiot. Newspapers have their angles, even research papers are written to further a point of view, complete access to all information is never available in one place. As readers we must seek as much information as we can and evaluate as we see fit.
I'm against damaging the reputation of a school because of ranting and raving. You are correct and I hear you. If you put something in a newspaper that is not true about a company or a person the newspaper can be sued. I am not implying that nothing should be put on this website with out evidence. I am saying that if someone slags off a school they should give a good reason why. Not just bringing down one person at that school in a specific department. One person does not make or break the school. These critsisms should be directed at the school in general with a good reason for doing so.
IME on teflwatch they usually are
Great points mate and thanks for the input and insight.
The posting rules on TEFL Watch do require evidence; unsubstantiated posts and threads are deleted. I believe the mods contact the poster and request names, times, dates and places and then try to confirm these details.
As someone posted earlier if the thread keeps on running there must be something there. New claims coming out and keeping a thread alive combined with a lack of response from the school are a pretty good indicator that something smells in Denmark.
Faith, by itself, isn't a good enough reason to believe. Instead, a belief must be defensible through reason, logic, and evidence.
The idea that faith is somehow justified by the fact that the beliefs cannot be proven is a truly Orwellian position to adopt - not to mention intellectually and ethically dangerous.
So if someone makes the comment that someone is incompetant or stupid there is proof to this?
I think it is more related to claims of abuse of contract and pay deductions etc.
Obviously personal opinions are hard to prove and must be taken on merit or not.
Seems pretty straightforward to me!Originally Posted by teflwatch.org
Yes, but there a lot of threads based on personality conflicts between admin and teachers. Most of these are short lived as posters see them for the sour grapes they are.
Checking up on the validity of an original poster's allegation would be very difficult as the schools would just deny it. Documentary evidence is often hard to come by especially when the schools know they are acting illegally as many of them do.
My favourite has to be "We are not under Labour law we are under Education law."
I think the main point is that it's out there! It's available to all and offers information that each of us has to take on its merits. IMO teachers need all the help they can get as there are plenty of unscrupulous bosses out here (many with good reputations I might add!).
If the feathers of the odd Thai admin get ruffled unfairly from time to time then so be it - they have a right to reply!
Well, I will swagger back into the fray here. TeflWatch is a resource for teachers. If I was looking for a job, I would take a look at the site, first on the Hall of Shame postings and then on the discussion forum. Would I take any opinion expressed as the gospel? No way! I would take a look at the site and use it in my job search as a tool. It is so hard to get decent information on schools and make the best choice possible. I hope teachers will accept this for what it is, a place to make their voice heard.
We have done our best to eliminate those posts that exist for the sake of posting. Every post on the forum is a legitimate gripe that a teacher has had with a school or institute. Names of individuals are protected, but schools are fair game. We have done it with limited censorship.
Of our success, I have had two different teachers drop me messages that they have gotten the better end of a situation with a school thanks to TeflWatch.
I do make an attempt to verify some postings(ie ones with particular claims) made on the site. If a school is unwilling to assist me or if it is not possible to verify the claims, I side with the teachers and keep them. If I can verify that the claims are incorrect, then posts to this effect are made in the thread. I might verify these matters by contacting people I know who are connected with the school in question or who are familiar with the school or I might just contact the school directly by email or phone.
This verification does not end when a post goes dormant. On one particular school, it came to my attention that a former teacher at one of our Hall of Shame schools was arrested in Canada on some charges. Fearing that the school may have been inadvertently added to the Hall of Shame, I verified and double verified that the teacher arrested was not the original poster on the discussion forum. Would it have made a difference if the teacher had been the original poster? No, but in the interest of full disclosure, I would have made that information available to teachers.
I guess I will swagger on out again.
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