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Thread: Suggestions for improvement in the thai tefl industry

  1. #31
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    Good point, Russell: we don't refer to it as "the TEFL profession."

    Phil would be shooting himself in the foot if he took these suggestions and applied them. And all for what divine cause? And with what chances that it would move even 1% of the mountain of that comprises the industry in Thailand?

    I was just thinking what my own requirements would be, if I do get a job in May. Forget the money; I want part time hours when I come in, do my thing professionally, and go home. I don't expect professionalism on anybody else's part. I don't expect to determine the students' final grades. I don't expect perfect students or staff. Go in there, do my best, and walk out each day when my schedule's finished. That shouldn't be too much to demand, late on May 14th when both the English lady and the Slovakian backpacker haven't shown up.
    "The times I've been mistaken, it's impossible to say" - by the Moody Blues

  2. #32
    Senior Member Array watdog's Avatar
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    teachers are a part of the problem...i concede this. but the power lies with the schools and im my view with thids web site

    Posted after 1 minute:

    sometimes pb you read like a cheer leader.

    Posted after 52 seconds:

    dispute my point dont just do piroets

    Posted after 1 minute 31 seconds:

    why would phil be shooting himsel in the foot so say"dont use my site to lie or decieve"

  3. #33
    sinneslöshen Array Unwell's Avatar
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    how much?
    a lot.

    evidence?

    "...ever wonder why they kill the weak ones, baby?"

  4. #34
    Senior Member Array watdog's Avatar
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    "its not worth the money my credibilty matters to me"

  5. #35
    Senior Member Array defender's Avatar
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    Watdog don't take it all so personally mate :smile:
    Excuse me for not taking this seriously .....

  6. #36
    Senior Member Array watdog's Avatar
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    numbers?

  7. #37
    sinneslöshen Array Unwell's Avatar
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    if you're not going to provide any evidence it's out of order to say that phil willingly allows cheats to advertise on the board for his own benefit.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Array watdog's Avatar
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    im not some in the know person. im saying its endemic. we all know it. why, WHY allow it.? for the money?
    it aint right

    Posted after 2 minutes 12 seconds:

    his arguemant on tsw was simply a time one. "i dont have time to police everyone" cool but dont shut your eyes. dto do this is to go from honest broker to enabler and finacial benfactor

    Posted after 1 minute 24 seconds:

    if your offer to bet and get enuertic over discussions of how much that hardly seems correct eeither.

    Posted after 1 minute 1 second:

    it might be lucrative to enable some of these guys but it aint right.

    Posted after 42 seconds:

    indeed he wont even say how lucrative...why?

    Posted after 1 minute 24 seconds:

    out of order my ass.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Array russellsimpson's Avatar
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    Watdog wrote:

    indeed he wont even say how lucrative...why
    Gee I understand where you're coming from Watdog, but after all it is a private business. I think if Phil wanted to have to explain his finances he would probably have a public company.

    It's personal information and in a sense I think it is a little rude to ask him for numbers. It's literally his business and it's his to run as he sees fit.

    I've had private business's in the past and if a "stranger" or even a non-stranger asked me how much I was making I would tell them to .....

    There are persoanl and business reasons why you may not wish to divulge the information and why it would be foolish to do so. I'm sure the tax man knows what the business makes and Phil's his wife knows...beyond that...nobody's business.

    Anyway......I think the idea of a wage filter would be a real good idea. :smile:
    When being run out of town, get in front of the crowd and make it appear like a parade.

  10. #40
    Wannabe Guru Array theent01's Avatar
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    when I first got here I was puzzled by the lack of name-and-shame about dishonest schools on a teachers website, which should be a great place for it. When Phil changed the job page, I even got in some 'hot water' for being impatient and ignorant as to how some websites are linked, and asking some questions that would have been resolved if I'd waited a couple weeks, mostly about wage filters.

    Now that i've been here I have come to realize that Phil and Louis' reasons for avoiding name and shame and other policies I originally thought poorly concieved did have a method to their madness. From looking into teaching in other countries, I've really come to appreciate what a fantastic resource ajarn and this forum are. Other countries need to copy them and fast. Having this website made my transition to thialand 1000% easier than it would have been. I found my job through it, and have had countless questions answered, sometimes by phil himself.

    Yes, things need to change here. It is painfully obvious when we get a transfer student who studied in malaysia for a couple years or something like that and come back leaps and bounds ahead of the locally educated. It is painfully obvious when face saving damages the education of the children I personally care a great deal for. Or when the principal comes to the farang teachers and asks us to help prepare the students for a test that has already happened the week before.

    I suppose my support for ajarn comes from the fact that I can't see how changing this website would change the fundamental makeup of thailand's educational system. I feel sorry for people who found jobs through this site where they feel the got screwed over. If I went through that experience, I would probably be soured to the site as well. Some things are unforseeable though, even if we ask the right questions during the interview, and also, some things are simply personal experience. At my school, for instance, many of the teachers feel wronged by the administration, whereas I feel like I have been treated very well. So I would understand if some of my colleagues wanted to slam my school on a name-and-shame, even though I feel totally opposite.

    So to wrap this up, I think ajarn and the forum are doing a great job, and a job that is often taken for granted (I know I have in the past). I do have one suggestion, and it's one that's been made before, and one I don't see the difficulty in implementing.

    On the jobs page, the part time jobs should be marked so they can be filtered. Then the full time jobs could be pay filtered again. Jobs from agencies that have both part and fulltime can be shown after either filter. I don't see how this would hurt Phil's business end of things, and it would give teachers looking for jobs an even better resource. just my two cents, but I think it is a good couple of pennies

  11. #41
    Still got the Blues Array
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    It's personal information and in a sense I think it is a little rude to ask him for numbers.
    Yes, it is rude to ask for numbers.

    Posted after 33 minutes 46 seconds:

    Quote Originally Posted by russellsimpson
    No one can disagree Watdog that changes are required.

    Of course there is no infrastructure in place to implement and monitor those things that you suggest. You can hardly expect Ajarn.com to take on that responsibility. From what Phil says they screen as much as they could possibly be expected to.e to.

    I guess a school watch site and more active participation, as Defender points out, is the natural starting point.

    There are problems endemic to the TEFL "industry", and the fact that it is rightfully called an "industry" really tells you a lot about the problem. It is not only an industry, it is a poorely, if at all, regulated industry.

    As much as I hate to say it, it really does come down to every person for themself as far as TEFL is concerned. :smile:
    You're right, Moose. It is an industry. There are profits and losses. A saintly person would have a harder time at making a profit than you or me. Nice lads finish last.

    I think Ken is off base on this one. Your quality of work has little to do with the problem. Thais' tendency to put appearance over substance is a sad manifestation of their inherited business ethics. I personally feel no guilt whatsoever fucking them over. The only difference between the way they do it and the way I do it is in the smile.

    Not mentioned is the fact (IMO) the farang become Thai-like and in many instances can be trusted even less. In general a farang is more desperate then a Thai.

    As a social-minded person I always see people's problems as chapters in a text book. Thais know there is a lot of money in TEFL. They wouldn't go into business unless they had an idea how it's done. The 'rules' on how it's done come from a pool of knowledge which belongs to Thailand via China. Sometimes we forget we're not part of this Thai thing. There's shit going down that's waaay over our heads.

    Another problem is that Thais must think we like it here a lot. They also know most of us under 65 probably don't have 'milk cows' back home. They know if we want to stay we have to work. They also know it's easy for us to go from job to job.

    Something I noticed as a working musician is that the guys who are usually most dedicated to the group are those with the heaviest burdens. A harmonica player has his instrument in his pocket. It'd take a drummer about 2 hours and a 3000 calorie burn to attend an audition. Thai admins prefers married men and women. But there is really not enough of them to go around. They HAVE TO hire teachers with checkered pasts. That's how bad things are for them, and why I'm still able to get good jobs here.

    There has to come a time when Thai adminers come to generalize about us as we come to generalize them. We see them as stupid. They see us as unfaithful and money-grubbing. And never the train shall meet.

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