TEFLWatch Forums Closed Permanently

[defender]

You talk of trolls and shills, but fail to point out that the admin of the site posts many unsubstantiated claims as well.

Just as you fail to point out that you (and others) went waaaaay out of your way to wind him up and destroy the website.

At what point have you insisted he post proof of his claims.

I stand by my own opinion that it is a web forum and actively encourages unproven opinion (that is what web forums do!), posters on forums are never asked to prove anything - merely to act reasonably and enter into the spirit. Whatever was posted in anger concerning you (I actually don't know or care) was in response to your own campaign to destroy the website that had taken a bunch of people a lot of their own time for little or no gain to build-up. As you know, reputations are easily tarnished Just like any other BS posted on forums, one side says it's so and the other says it ain't - there aren't enough hours in my life to seek proof for everything I read on the net and as a necessary consequence of this I know full well that I read a lot of crap.
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To continue to point out the faults of the trolls and shills without acknowledging the part Greg played would be an unfair charactorization of what happened.

Were I bothered enough to engage myself in your childish little squabble it would be say, "You started it!" With that I'd leave it, because I'm bigger and smarter ......

[Topper]

Just as you fail to point out that you (and others) went waaaaay out of your way to wind him up and destroy the website.

I never wanted to destroy TEFLWatch. What I wanted was Greg to step down and give the reins over to you. I've always said there is a need for a site like TW. I just don't think Greg was the right guy for the job. When you ask why...look at the forum right now. Thats the ending statement of the forum that we worked for...rather than going out with dignity, it went out with slander.

Thats the ending Greg gave to the site. Not a thanks to the posters, not thanks to the moderators but slander. Guess it shows how much he respects his posters and moderators.

Wind him up? As the admin of a forum, I would have thought that he would have the "reserve" not to be wound up. If an admin can get so wound up that the only way he can respond is by posting lies, then what does that say for the forum he manages?

I stand by my own opinion that it is a web forum and actively encourages unproven opinion

So you're saying slander/libel is perfectly acceptable by your standards? You seek a balanced forum, but posting OTT is considered fair play? Once again, when you PUBLICLY ask Greg to post proof of his claims, then you've got a leg to stand on. You didn't do it before and it appears you won't do it now.

And yes, there aren't enough hours to seek proof...but then again, when you don't care about the truth it doesn't really matter, does it.

With respect defender. I know how hard you've worked and respect that.

[defender]

I've always said there is a need for a site like TW. I just don't think Greg was the right guy for the job.

But clearly you didn't give a shit about the hundreds of genuine users of the resource, you just stamped your feet, cried and whined and fcuked it for everyone. Who are you to decide who can and can't run any kind of website they want? Who are you to rant and tirade and destroy other people's hard work while hiding behind the cowardly anonymity afforded by the internet?

So you're saying slander/libel is perfectly acceptable by your standards? You seek a balanced forum, but posting OTT is considered fair play? Once again, when you PUBLICLY ask Greg to post proof of his claims, then you've got a leg to stand on. You didn't do it before and it appears you won't do it now.

Well how about we wind back the clock and when you introduce yourself to the TEFL world via Teflwatch you write in your signature that any school admins can buy you for a few pieces of silver? Posting OTT is the nature of the beast and realistically accepted by all users of any internet forum - it is quite a different kettle-of-fish to lying and falsifying one's own existence to make money out of other people's good nature.

When I see "spats" and "slagfests" and see posters, mods and admins getting angry and tempers becoming frayed I am mature enough to realise that things said in anger are often not reasoned or reasonable, I'm guilty of it myself. You hiding behind this silly "quest for truth or proof" as you do is clearly only a smokescreen for the fact that you accepted coin to pretend to be something you weren't, to make a corrupt institution appear clean. How about you start answering some of the allegations and lower the childish "prove it" flag that you incessantly wave?

[kidneystone]

To insist that it is necessary to be balanced to be fair is naive and absolutely flies in the face of empirical reality. Amnesty International doesn't have to balance its pages about warcrimes with pages about integrity shown on battlefields

You are quite correct, Amnesty does not HAVE to balance its pages, but it is the fact that they do on occasion report the good that lends them an air or believability. To suggest otherwise is to show a naivety born out of desperation. Or do you honestly believe that your readership is incapable of differentiating between the BS posts and the genuine?

The same is true of Teflwatch. The fact that there were few positive stories on there would largely be down to the fact that the majority of folks motivated to post positive tales of employment here in Thailand were motivated by money

Oh come now! You know for a fact that those who post good news are only money motivated? Such cynicism is hardly becoming of you. The fact is, that there are teachers everywhere who are happy with the places of employment, Take for instance Los_teacher. Last year he started reporting that the school he worked at had indeed made major changes from the situation that placed the school in the hall of shame. He took major stick, not only from the users and also sadly from many on the mod team. The fact that his reasoned argument eventually won through shows much that gives credit to the man. For you to now suggest that he was little more than a paid shill for his school is beyond contempt.

So you end up with shills wanting to "big up" their businesses for free slagging off the forum publicly because they aren't allowed to post their bullshit. You get angry teachers slagging off the forum because they aren't allowed to post OTT personal stuff about ex-employers. Each side is accusing the admin of being unfair so the admin gets the shits and packs it in. C'est la vie, but a shame nonetheless.
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Another shining example of how the anonymity afforded by web forums encourages a "loud" minority of liars and charlatans, ultimately to the detriment of the well-meaning majority.

An interesting point, but I would remind you that it was not that long ago when one of those angry teachers was accusing you of being one of the shills simply because you would not put up with his BS, he actually put up quite a convincing argument to your being a shill as I remember. And what was your response? Did you;

start answering some of the allegations and lower the childish "prove it" flag that you incessantly wave?

Well initially, yes you did but then when that failed, what did you do? Did you maybe, behind closed doors stamp your feet and say something along the lines of; “its different when your integrity is called into question whitey, either the waterfall goes or I do” When you want to climb up on your high and mighty horse, it does help if you check that there are no low beams to catch you out!

you write in your signature that any school admins can buy you for a few pieces of silver?

And should we take this as your proof that topper was a shill for schools? How very heroic of you to prove that you can be so easily convinced by a few tongue in cheek words and the sweet talking of your lord and master!

[Topper]

When I see "spats" and "slagfests" and see posters, mods and admins getting angry and tempers becoming frayed I am mature enough to realise that things said in anger are often not reasoned or reasonable, I'm guilty of it myself. You hiding behind this silly "quest for truth or proof" as you do is clearly only a smokescreen for the fact that you accepted coin to pretend to be something you weren't, to make a corrupt institution appear clean. How about you start answering some of the allegations and lower the childish "prove it" flag that you incessantly wave?

Ask away!!!!!!! Unlike Whitey, I welcome questions. Just be sure you want to hear the answers.

I'll even help you. Have I ever accepted payments from a certain HoS school?

Nope, its just something Whitey made up. 100% lie. Went I started my anti TW blog, Greg threatened repeatedly to post that. In fact, on one occasion he PM'd that threat to me here. I promptly forwarded that threating PM to the admin. Heck...comments about the threat are still in the thread in the ice box. Need me to post the links? But, if you recall, at first it was my wife that worked at PAIS. He then changed it to me working at PAIS. Wonder why he changed his story?

And since its a FACT defender, could you please provide something more than heresay? I'd love to see your FACTS. Or are you into making baseless accusations like Greg?

Any other questions?

defender, I had you figured for a smarter person than to blindly believe Gregs bullshit. Guess I was somewhat mistaken. I've always said that if you're stupid enough to believe what Greg says, then anything I have to say would be way over your head.

I know many people worked long and hard on the TW. My intention at first point out how Greg sold out the teachers that TW had supported during the TI thing. If Greg had limited his remarks to the TI thing rather than lying about me and my family, all of this would have ended months ago. When he started posting those kinds of lies, I decided to do my best to ruin his reputation (not that he hadn't done a good job of that on his own). He hasn't let go. And because of that he ruined TEFLWatch. Not me or KS or you or anyone else, but Greg.

You can try to blame me or others for TW's demise, but at the end of the day, Greg was the guy in charge of TEFLWatch, so whatever happened was allowed by Greg. Greg didn't act in a responsible, credible manner and now you see the end result of his actions.

[jimbo]

Sorry to be a pedantic-ass but,:

teflwatch:

Many teacher will not have the access to information that they had before.

It's just so glaring!
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Designed by EZ Money Media

Hmmmm....I see.

[Topper]

Damn it Jim! I was saving that one for the future.

Even told Whitey last night he needed to check his grammar and he didn't quite catch on.
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Designed by EZ Money Media Hmmmm....I see.

Apparently not that EZ

[jimbo]

Yeah, they say (whoever they are)....that blatant spelling and grammar mistakes can mean two things:

1. stress

2. 2nd E language assistant.

[kidneystone]

Yeah, they say (whoever they are)....that blatant spelling and grammar mistakes can mean two things:

1. stress

2. 2nd E language assistant.

Jimbo for shame on you! its in the rules of TW that you are not allowed to be a sleppling/gammrar nazi! and you are certainly never allowed to mentions that the site is all about making money by whatever means available!

[jimbo]

No wonder I'm not in the "in crowd" Christ I'd a gotten banned in mili-seconds methinks ....

[Topper]

I'm actually starting to feel bad for some of the comments I've made about Greg/Whitey and Teflwatch. I started to ponder why hasn't Whitey came here to defend himself, but instead has one of his former mods do it for him. Maybe the members list has a clue in it.....

[jimbo]

I meant:

Yeah, they say (whoever they are)....that blatant spelling and grammar mistakes ON HOMEPAGES can mean two things:

[Topper]

Christ I'd a gotten banned in mili-seconds methinks ....

Greg would have banned you just for using the Lord's name in vain.

[jimbo]

I'm actually starting to feel bad for some of the comments I've made about Greg/Whitey and Teflwatch.

I feel sorry for the guy for some other reasons, which I won't go into here.....or possibly ever again....but 'other' members of the flock?....I'm open to discussion.


I'm sure whitey is, dusting his spiffy, roly-poly, office chair, and ironing his wife-beater for the BIG interview. All his sites are honed on those questions, and the myriads of lies he has told. A memory is hard to keep track of anyway, but MUCH harder with lies outlining it.
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Greg would have banned you just for using the Lord's name in vain.

That's why he and his all-creating, judgmental deity can suck on my pluralistic balls.

[Topper]

Jim....I was being sarcastic....I feel no pity for Greg at all. I'm sad that all of Wangsuda's hard work building the resources for teachers there is lost, but thats about it.

If the admins and the mods had kept a handle on things, the named and shamed schools as well as the rest of the site would still be in operation today. If they had worked to keep the site somewhat credible, then the site would have continued to grow. Greg opted to take the low road to get short term attention to his site by posting blatant lies rather than taking a more long term view and focus on credibility.

A rather simple example is this: Greg states in his rules he will not allow the posting of names of individuals. He also says he'll do everything he can to protect personal information. Yet Greg has done both of these things on TEFLWatch, as well as other sites. What does this say about Greg's morals?