Expat vs Foreigner - Split From Learning Thai Thread

[stfranalum]

using wikipedia's definition is accurate at all.

well, other than just negate my example, provide one of your own.

ahh...the online dictionaries agree with it thaaats why you gave no example.

Using Wikipedia as a reference for an argument is quite weak. Use a reference that has some governing board that reviews what is written.

use:

Dictionary and Thesaurus - Merriam-Webster Online

see what you get

My understanding of the term "expat" is that the person still has strong ties to their homeland, is likely to go back often, and has no intention of resettling in the host country.

talk about making up a definition!

Blimey - that sounds complicated.

How many visits home need to be conducted for the term 'Expat' to be accurate then?

How do you quantify the strength of the ties to one's homeland?

right.

as mentioned in dictionaries and sources online, its when youre not travelling but residing in a place. buying a washing machine is no being a tourist.


man, what an absolute waste of time this thread an ajarn classic!

haltest, you are clearly believeing yourself here eh?

with so many ways to show that thai people are afraid of foreigners, actual behaviors....harping on just the word itself is a bit funny. i mean, pointing at you in a store- right in your face- and saying "FARANG!" is quite offensive.

but using it as an easy way to talk about people who arent from here? jesus christ youre anal.

and yes, it bothers me too. its a form of 'nigger'. "you are DIFFERENT. you are not ONE OF US. i care not to ask anything more about you, where youre from, etc. but i do know that youre different--this is the thing about you that i will point out."

its small minded and villager-ish. its not the way people in a global society act towards each other. but blimey mate, youre going to have to accept their shortcommings- and just using the word foreigner- is hardly one of thais major shortcommings.

and the negative connotation to expat? ive never heard of that. and although im young, ive met a lot of folk, and ive never once heard expat used in a bad way. tourist, backpacker, and sexpat however...

[barfomcgee]

i mean, pointing at you in a store- right in your face- and saying "FARANG!" is quite offensive.

but using it as an easy way to talk about people who arent from here? jesus christ youre anal.

and yes, it bothers me too. its a form of 'nigger'. "you are DIFFERENT. you are not ONE OF US. i care not to ask anything more about you, where youre from, etc. but i do know that youre different--this is the thing about you that i will point out."

"Farang" is a pretty offensive word. "Foreigner" is not.

And since we're playing the dictionary game, Random House defines it this way:

for⋅eign⋅er  –noun 1.a person not native to or naturalized in the country or jurisdiction under consideration; alien.2.a person from outside one's community.

Wow, that is racist, isn't it?

[aging one]

Frankly speaking has turned out to be a Thai. I dont know if that negates his comments or not. I think one reason he and his family live so frugally is support from family. Something we dont have and something that makes a hell of a difference how you live here. Along with expenses for food and the such.

[barfomcgee]

Being of Asian descent in the US, I was treated with as much bigotry and ignorance as whites are here. Stop being so sensitive when your native country isn't any better.

Racism exists everywhere, but I find it hard to believe your experiences in the US were similar to what goes on here. I can't think of a single time when I've seen someone stop, point and laugh at an Asian guy walking into a store, shouting, "Haha! An Asian! An Asian! Look, the Asian is shopping!"

As a "farang," incidents like the above occur on a daily basis here in the glorious Land O' Thais.

[jimbo]

and the negative connotation to expat? ive never heard of that. and although im young, ive met a lot of folk, and ive never once heard expat used in a bad way.

sexpat IS a bastardization of expat and therefore a negative connotation, no?

Then there's "expat trap" as I mentioned that has made the rounds.


Tourist 1: Ready for the club?
Tourist 2: Yea.

Tourist 1: Where's that new friend of yours, isn't he coming?
Tourist 2: Naw, he's a fukin expat man. Says he's tired...worked all day.

Tourist 1: Really? Phhh! Expats...they move to paradise and turn it into a rat race.
Tourist 2: No shit!


You can twist any word into a negative connotation. Just say the word "expat" five times while rolling your eyes!

Racism exists everywhere, but I find it hard to believe your experiences in the US were similar to what goes on here. I can't think of a single time when I've seen someone stop, point and laugh at an Asian guy walking into a store, shouting, "Haha! An Asian! An Asian! Look, the Asian is shopping!"

I've seen MUCH, MUCH, MUCH worse done to Asians where I'm from in the US.

As a "farang," incidents like the above occur on a daily basis here in the glorious Land O' Thais.

Daily basis? Not to me, and I'm as white as white.

And when it is done, at least it is with jocularity.,....someone starts pointing at ethnicities in the US, and you'd better hit the deck!

[Cyrille]

I can't think of a single time when I've seen someone stop, point and laugh at an Asian guy walking into a store, shouting, "Haha! An Asian! An Asian! Look, the Asian is shopping!"

I'm sure most Thais have never seen anything similar happen to a farang either.

Thais are hardly the best judges of how Farangs are made to feel, are they?

You're hardly the best judge of what an Asian is subjected to.

Have a read of this:

BBC NEWS | UK | England | Beds/Bucks/Herts | Man charged with newsagent murder

Sort of puts 'being pointed at' into context, I think.

[barfomcgee]

someone starts pointing at ethnicities in the US, and you'd better hit the deck!

Ok, that's true. I would say racism is less pervasive in the US, but where it does it occur it is far more severe than here.

BBC NEWS | UK | England | Beds/Bucks/Herts | Man charged with newsagent murder

Sort of puts 'being pointed at' into context, I think.

Sure, I've heard bad things about racism in the UK. My sister and her (Indian) husband spent a year in Nottingham doing Masters degrees. They used to get harrassed regularly while walking home by teens/young adults shouting silly things like, "Foreigners!" Not murder, I know, but still juvenile and offensive.

[stfranalum]

yeah. i tend to forget that crap about how dang ignorant our folk back home can be. thais do it with a smile. how smug of them!!

why not just a regular beating and mugging like they do in the states?

[Cyrille]

Sure, I've heard bad things about racism in the UK.

Ah jeez - surely you know that wasn't my point.

Just giving some examples - these stories could be from just about anywhere. I'm sure I could put up a dozen from the states - let's not go down that route, eh?

Have a look at this one:

BBC NEWS | UK | Northern Ireland | Romanians flee homes after attack

Ms Lo said attacks on Romanian homes - which included bricks being thrown through windows - had been increasing in frequency in recent months.
"They are really very frightened," she said. "The women, when they were talking to me yesterday, they were really upset, tears in their eyes and said, 'You know we love it here, we'd like to live here, but we're too scared.'

I wonder if whole families have had to abandon their homes in Thailand because of racist attacks?

I suspect not.

[barfomcgee]

Ah jeez - surely you know that wasn't my point.

I understand that wasn't your point, but not being from the UK I can't really say much about it. I already noted that racism in the States is perhaps less common than in Thailand, but much more severe when it does show up.

My guess would be that racism in the UK is just as pervasive as in Thailand, but with far uglier outcomes. That is, the silly pointing and shouting exists in the UK as it does in Thailand, but the beatings/rapes/murders that occur (rarely) in the States are present also. Is this accurate?

I'll agree that at least racism in Thailand manifests itself in mostly harmless ways.

[Cyrille]

I understand that wasn't your point, but not being from the UK I can't really say much about it.

Fair enough.

That is, the silly pointing and shouting exists in the UK as it does in Thailand, but the beatings/rapes/murders that occur (rarely) in the States are present also. Is this accurate?

Yes - though the murder rate is far lower, and most Britons believe this is partly because guns are less easily obtainable..

[barfomcgee]

most Britons believe this is partly because guns are less easily obtainable..

Probably true - you won't see me out marching to protect the Second Ammendment.

[frankly speaking]

I didn't turn out to be Thai, I have always been Thai.

Aging One, My Parents are US citizens living in the US. So I don't know what the heck you are talking about. My wife and I help support ourselves. What 40+ year old gets support from his her parents? So don't assume things.

I am a US citizen also, I just happen to be of Thai Ethnicity. I do love this country but it isn't because I am just Thai. I too face many of the problems that other foreign nationals do, I just don't stand out like a sore thumb. However, I don't speak Thai like a Thai and get teased quite often about it. I speak better than most foreign nationals though. I get hassles at immigration and have other problems like every other westerner here.

The argument that someone never heard or saw anyone point at an asian person and laugh, stare, etc. Is pretty stupid. How often does anyone notice what is happening to others. It has happened to me in the states as well as other western countries that I have visited, not as much in large cities though because no one looks the same. I have had kids point at me and say "Hey mom look asian/chink, etc". Western countries delude themselves to think that racism is lesser in their countries. It isn't. The only difference is that in the West we at least pretend to be non-racist.

I agree that the word "farrang" is rude, but Thais don't know it. They use it similar to the word Westerner. No different than western countries classifying Asians. If your colleagues use such words, I might calmly tell them that you don't like it, but if some stupid bus driver calls you fallang instead of Khun, forget about it.

I don't use online dictionaries. I use text dictionaries. According to Webster's New World

expatriate
1 to drive (a person) from his or her native land; exile
2 to withdraw (oneself) from one's native land or from allegiance to it
adj.
that has become an expatriate; expatriated
n.
an expatriated person
—SYN BANISH


I can dig up others as you wish. However, I will allow that a more modern perspective may change the meaning but look at its derivation. If those that live in foreign countries for 6 months want to classify themselves as expats they are entitled to but that is not what the word was meant. I will also defend that Ethnic minorities in western countries don't all want to reside there permanently. Some are there for a short time also, but there is no distinction they are all labeled as immigrants. Would you call a British citizen that moved to Australia and became a citizen an immigrant? I don't think so.

I think this thread has gone so far off course, but it is interesting. I feel bad for the OP, who probably won't ever post here again.

[jimbo]

The OP could look on the bright side at how many more "looks" this thread has gotten

[haltest]

It's incredibly difficult to be an immigrant in Thailand. I could have applied for P.R. a few years ago but it's so intrusive to supply all the documents, too time consuming, and too expensive AND the benefits of having PR are shite And you lose it if you go out of the country without having the right stamps in your passport! (And that's not even enough to be an immigrant, try getting citizenship and you really will find that nigh on impossible unless you are a western female married to a Thai man)

Thailand needs to change its attitude, it needs to get in step with the real world and grant rights to people who stay here and not be so xenophobic. All this protectionist crap stops people putting down roots here, especially if they have kids. Why should people invest money here when you can't own anything in your own name.

Tourists are already way down this year and in general Thailand is getting a bad press at the moment due to a whole host of factors.

The whole attitude of us V them is encapsulated in the way Thais refer to non-Thais in their day to day interactions and while is does not upset some who choose to ignore it, it's a sign of ignorance, lack of education, and lack of respect.