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Thread: What's up with the low pay these days?

  1. #61
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    Did I say that people who do gate duty and attend Sports Days are ass kissers? NO You read that wrong.

    I did say that I am not an ass kisser (in a general working environment)..

    I saw many ass kissers in my previous industry in Australia and was repulsed by that particular work related behavior.

    Saknat

  2. #62
    Something Or Other... Array panhunger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    What's ass kissing about doing what's expected?
    We get so much time off at our school that the extra stuff really isn't too bothersome. There's really only one activity I won't participate in and that's Wai Kru Day, where the students get on their knees and give you flowers. Seems more than just a little humiliating for the students. My boss doesn't have a problem with that.

    The annoying thing about the extra stuff is the notice that some schools give for future activities. Many schools don't give much notice, instead saying 'today' or 'tomorrow' we have to do this or that. I very quickly learned to say: "I'd love to go but I can't. I've made plans already. Please give me notice in the future and I'd love to come." Without fair notice, doing things in the off hours is asking too much.
    "Goddamn it Lord, bless oh ye this bacon..."

    George Liquor American

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  4. #63
    Established User Array Hollywood's Avatar
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    Yes, I've read about the short notice expectations before and can understand how that's unfair.

    In my current job, I very rarely do anything extra. Primarily this is because it's a job, as opposed to a career, and I treat it as such. Plus, contracting is a bit of a different ballgame anyway. My boss, on the other hand, gets raked across the coals at every corner. The guy just doesn't know how to say "no" and it's an endless cause of stress for him. Sorry, but Afghanistan is stressful enough without getting shit on day after day.

    Setting limitations (and sticking to them) is really good advice...thanks.

    Saknat...You went on and on about how you don't do anything extra (such as gate duty) and then stated you're not a kiss ass. That, to me, implies you think those who participate in such things are kiss asses. If I misinterpreted your meaning, I apologize.

  5. #64
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    No Dramas Hollywood

    I just don't like things implied that I truly didn't say.

    Yes totally agree about what panhunger is saying about the time concerning some extra duties, especially contest timing.

    Example; You have a speaking contest to go to in bla bla.
    When is the speaking contest?
    It's on Monday this coming week. (It is Thursday right now).
    Do you have the topics for the contest?
    No. I will see what they are when we get them.
    Do you have any students available for the contest?
    Yes. (she really needed more than 4 days to prepare for the contest)

    Later on during the week of the contest you are asked to judge at the contest.
    You see some surprise entries from your own school.
    (No-one told me about this group?)

    Your school looses by .5 a point to the school's group that's holding the contest.

    (Has to be rigged, with such a short notice for the contest)

    I've seen Thai teachers judge very differently to native speaker teachers. I've seen them award high points for students that we would think deserve quite low points.

    edit

    Also on another contest occasion another teacher and I (we thought) had picked the perfect student for a contest.
    Her speaking voice was very sharp and clear. She could answer questions easily. She was short and brown. That didn't bother us as her speaking ability was exceptional.
    There was a short inner school contest for the out of school contest. We still picked the above student. The Thai teachers chose
    a white student that had a problem with her vowel sounds.

    Saknat
    Last edited by saknat; 14th May 2011 at 17:13.

  6. #65
    older by the second Array dave123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saknat View Post
    I've seen Thai teachers judge very differently to native speaker teachers. I've seen high points for students that we would think deserve quite low points
    Tell me about.
    I have been doing these comp for the last 7 years, I actually watched a Thai judge give top marks to a student for saying how wonderful Thailand is (in broken thaiglish) when I asked why, she said, because she is so cute and the one who could speak clearly were marked less ????
    When I was young I kicked my sister.
    my mum gave me such a smack, then asked "do you want another one"?
    "Jeez" mum I said "I have enough trouble with one sister without you having another"

  7. #66
    swing you sinners! Array Mr. Hales's Avatar
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    ^ don't try to take anything seriously in thailand.
    "vast and black. the thing that was poised, like a crow over the moon. round and smooth. cannon balls. things that have fallen from the sky to this earth. our slippery brains. things like cannon balls have fallen, in storms, upon this earth. like cannon balls are things that, in storms, have fallen to this earth. showers of blood. showers of blood. showers of blood. " c.f.

  8. #67
    Exmatrixian Array Thaitanium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by panhunger View Post
    The annoying thing about the extra stuff is the notice that some schools give for future activities. Many schools don't give much notice, instead saying 'today' or 'tomorrow' we have to do this or that. I very quickly learned to say: "I'd love to go but I can't. I've made plans already. Please give me notice in the future and I'd love to come." Without fair notice, doing things in the off hours is asking too much.
    See, but I love this as it's a perfectly acceptable way of getting out of things...and what's even better is that no matter how many times you tell them that you need advanced notice...it's never going to happen. They just don't work that way.
    "You really want to save the planet?...the next time you see a hybrid car with a childseat... smash the window, remove the childseat and replace it with a box of condoms..." Doug Stanhope
    ---------------------------------------------------------


  9. #68
    trash the scene Array po3try's Avatar
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    i don't get why you'd refuse to do sports day. it's basically a day of doing nothing anyway.

  10. #69
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    Hollywood. 30,000 baht a month is not 9,000 USD a year. The exchange rate has been 30-1 for a while now. So 30K baht is 1K dollars.

    Being a resident doesn't save you money on visas it costs 250,000 baht. Since most schools pay for your visas and extensions which are only 2,000 baht a year it isn't a big expense.


    ***Another point to consider is that 30,000 Baht a month is three times more than most Thai teachers earn.***

    Whoever said that is a moron. That is the starting salary for a teacher not what veteran teachers make. It also doesn't include the fact that they get a pension, social welfare, and many of them teach 1-2 hours extra a day making as much as another 20K a month. I know too many teachers driving expensive European cars. They couldn't do that if they only made 10k a month.

    ---Update---

    One point I meant to make is that yes the salaries are low and are lower than the past but that is also the case in Korea, and Japan. In the past 15 years that I have been involved with teaching in Asia the salaries have taken a dive all over.

  11. #70
    Established User Array Hollywood's Avatar
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    Frankly Speaking...Are teachers paid the entire year regardless of when school is in or out? I based the USD 9k on 9 months of work at USD 1k per month. I figured it may be off by a grand, but thought I'd be conservative. If teachers are paid UDS 1k per month, then that would be USD 12k per year. So, I'll revise my earlier statement and say my degree will pay for itself in just under 2.5 years rather than 3 years. Thank you for pointing that out.

    True, there is a cost to gaining permanent residency, but over time, that will be paid back via the money saved (on visa extensions, renewals, etc) provided the person is young enough. Although, I will concede that will take a while. I could be wrong, but I seem to recall that gaining permanent residence status also allows a person to work without having to get a work permit...is that right? Seems that was one of the benefits. If so, that's more money saved. Of course, that's assuming the school the person works for doesn't pay for visas and work permits for the employee (I know some do, but not all). Personally I think it's worth the effort just to not have to worry about the whole visa thing anymore...what a relief that would be!

    I know that comment about the Thai teachers wasn't directed at me, but I do recall reading that somewhere in this thread. Personally, I could give a rat's ass what Thai teachers make. In my opinion, comparing them to farang teachers is like comparing apples to oranges. Did Thai teachers pay tens of thousands of dollars on their education? Not likely. Are they native English speakers? No. Do they have to pay for visas, visa extensions, and work permits? No. Do they receive government benefits farang teachers don't? Yes. I can go on and on, but that's probably a completely different thread.

  12. #71
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    Most schools that I know of pay during holidays unless they are crafty and hire you between terms. So yes we are paid for the year, but many schools are now having summer terms and forcing many teachers to work part time during their holidays. It seems that most schools are asking for more but giving less and less every year.

    It seems that you have nothing but second/third hand knowledge. Have you even been to Thailand before? You make a lot of generalizations and assumptions about the way things are and you are not even a teacher yet.

    You do realize that with permanent residence you cannot leave the country for more than 6 months a year. So if you at any point want to work abroad or need to return to your home country for more than 6 months you lose your permanent residence.

    250,000 baht that is a lot of work permits and visas. Most schools do pay for the work permit and or extensions. Some pay for the initial visa and some even pay for the visa run. Simple math says that it costs only 5,000 baht a year for visa extension and work permit. You would have to work in Thailand for more than 50 years for it to be cost effective. You didn't study math did you?

    Yes, having permanent residence does allow some (not much) flexibility on work and work permits. You would still need to have the Thai teacher's license though for teaching jobs unless you are working at a university. If your kids are born here they can get citizenship if you are a resident but I don't think that matters to most people.

    30k is enough to have a middle class lifestyle but it won't sustain with inflation. This year alone the cost of living has gone up 15%, but the salaries have not for foreign teachers. Government institutions, Thai schools and other business overall have increased salaries the past few years. Private schools and foreign owned companies have not

    Middle Class families in Thailand spend a lot more on education for their kids than they do in the US. Average private school costs 50K baht a year, Universities are about the same some less. So if you calculate 24 years times 50K. Average middle class and above families pay a lot more for their education than you did. Public schools in the US are free and are better than most international schools here and much better than most bilingual or EP.

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  14. #72
    Established User Array Hollywood's Avatar
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    I hate math...science too, if you're interested. That being said, I could have done the simple math, but didn't really feel like re-looking up the cost of visas, extensions, and work permits, as well as the cost of the PR. Personally, I think it's worth it just for the headaches it would save. More of a "make things easier" than a money thing for me (as mentioned before).

    Yes, I've been to Thailand, quite a bit actually. If it seems as though I generalize things there, maybe I do. I'm familiar with Thailand, but not the TEFL part of it, which is why I became a member of this forum. If my lack of knowledge about the TEFL industry, or the fact that I'm not yet a teacher offends anyone here, then I apologize for the intrusion, but I am learning quickly and I appreciate the insight provided by all the threads.

    Oh, and of course, me not being a teacher is why my knowledge is second and third hand. Not possible for me to gain first hand experience without being a teacher, isn't it? If my interpretation of how things work there is sometimes wrong, then that's because what I've read is wrong. It's not as though people cite references when they post, so as someone who's not yet a teacher, how am I to know which post to believe and which not to believe? The best I can do is attempt to judge the character of the poster, which can take a little time to decide who is full of shit and who isn't, agreed?

    I base my interpretation of TEFL related subjects on what I've read on this forum and the TV forum...and I've read a lot. If you all would allow me to make an outside observation, seeing as how I'm not yet one of you, TEFL teachers seem to be extremely jaded, untrusting of anyone new, have a bleak outlook on life, and think they're shit don't stink, so to speak (of course, there are exceptions). Perhaps the need of an outlet to vent brings out more of the bad than the good though? Eh, I really don't expect my "wannabe newbie" (as I was referred to by someone else) opinion to be given a second thought, so I guess it doesn't matter anyway.

    I'm not here to cause waves. If my sincere interest in the TEFL industry (without yet being a member of said industry) causes a riff, I'll go back to just reading and not posting, at least until I have first hand experience of my own. That's not a plea for you all to beg be to stay, that's just saying the last thing I want is to alienate myself from others who knowledge and advice I value.

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  16. #73
    Something Or Other... Array panhunger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    I'm not here to cause waves.
    Boring...

    The best thing for a newbie to do is ACT like a know it all. The regulars just love that.

  17. #74
    Established User Array Hollywood's Avatar
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    I have strong opinions about certain subjects, but I realize those are only opinions and that other's opinions may vary. However, I've not attempted to mislead anyone about my experience. One can easily see by looking under my avatar that I don't live in Thailand, and I've stated numerous times that I'm not yet a teacher, and in fact am still working on my Bachelor's degree.

    I'm a firm believer in the Boy Scouts motto, "Be prepared." I'm here to absorb as much information as possible. I, quite honestly, have nothing to offer you all, which means I'm the only one benefiting from this. However, given time, I will give back to the forum.

  18. #75
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    I am not a TEFL teacher. I have taught TEFL in other countries but in Thailand I teach math and Science. I have also taught Social studies before in primary school. When I've worked in Universities here I taught thesis writing, research techniques and visual aesthetic classes.

    Do your research on getting Permanent Residence. Each year only 100 people per country are granted it, you lose the 50,000 deposit if you are not granted. You need more than just to be a teacher for 3 years. You must show that you contribute to society by either running a business, having a family (Thai Nationals spouse and children) here and a few others. You will have to pass a Thai exam. Trust me it is not worth it. There are few benefits to being a permanent resident. I know of countless guys that have lived here for 20-30+ years and they don't have permanent residence and a few of them did in the past. It really isn't worth it for the amount of work is involved getting it.

    It is just that you and FirFox come off as experts in fields that you don't yet know. He is planning on starting a school in a country he has never lived (just visited) teaching a subject he has never taught. You are apparently some guy getting a distant learning degree to work in a country that pays crap wages and are planning to live here forever before you even live here at all.

    You are worried about things that are so far off that they may or may not happen. Being prepared is not pipe dreaming. It is about making a plan with a foundation in the now. Not focusing on the now in relation to things that will change in the future by the time that you even get here.

    example.
    I am going to be a teacher in 3 years from now. Does anyone have any advice what the first day of class will be like? That is not being prepared, that is being retarded.

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