For those with Filipino coworkers...

Alright. Got one group of em, just pleasant and down to do the job just like the rest of us. Love em to pieces.

The other have cliqued-up and are determined to undermine all sorts of normal, everyday interactions, such as spreading the common announcements, disciplinary procedures (for students), and how we relate as a group to our bosses, who can't help themselves but regard us as a common foreigner group.

Their grief stems from perceived injustice in salary, benefits, and what you might expect.

While I sympathize with them to a significant degree, I was not responsible for recruiting them, drafting the contracts they signed, nor any other agreement. In fact, many of them have been at my place of work far longer than I, and their grievences predated my arrival.

They take it out on the farang amongst us, myself of course included, this chip they've felt poorly about but maintained forever.

It is poisoning an otherwise productive, collaborative, and progressive workplace, not to mention cause detriment to our program whose goal is to give our students the best possible education and experience.

I'm pretty much tired of it. I've worked with uppity people in every job I've ever had, but in years of experience in various countries, I've never been around a bunch who tried to sabotage the well-being of so many other people in such a way.

Does anyone have a similar experience? I'm not trying to single them out for their nationality, and sorry for the rant, but it's becoming unbearable and destructive to a program that I have invested my time, high motivation, and forward-thinking-ness into, and I'm worried about the future. :rock:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by educationalmercenary

They take it out on the farang amongst us, myself of course included

---

I can't ever imagine a Filipino standing in front of me - face to face, toe-to-toe - and giving me grief.

I'd love to know what it's like. Before I smacked him.

I've had some bad experiences in the past. But you can not paint them all with the same brush.

If I have to listen to one more tirade though, about farangs and their salary....Then you will see a flying headbutt off the top rope.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robin Hood

paint them all with the same brush......

---

I will suppose that that you didn't mean my beef, because I'm more than happy to work with the others who choose to be individuals who look out for themselves. I don't even mind the 'union' nature of it, but it's not even unanimous among the Filipinos I work with.


I don't presuppose anyone's preferences or predispositions on the basis of nationality.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by educationalmercenary

Their grief stems from perceived injustice in salary, benefits, and what you might expect.

---

Can't imagine why. They're earning 10X what they would back home.

I taught with mainly Philiipinos.

Never had a problem..didn't communicate a lot.

---Update---

They were all of the born again species.

I pretty damn sure that one fine young lady amounst their group offed my lovely silver pen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by russellsimpson

I pretty damn sure that one fine young lady amounst their group offed my lovely silver pen.

---

Graphic details, please.:soidog:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by russellsimpson

They were all of the born again species.

---

That seems a fact. I always liked them but many suffer from loss of job anxiety and in turn kiss a lot of admin ass or like to sequel on you.

Once the same lady claimed that she had lost here wedding ring in the school bathroom.

---Update---

The school spend a few days scouring.

I figured she had sold it but had to go through the motions....

Like I say...born again.

---Update---

So my advice might be...avoid the born again breed of Philipino.

Otherwise...hard workers..


AND...... certified teachers

At the gig I had in Chumporn they'd hog the computers reading all about Jesus, use the printer and school-owned paper to make fliers. They get on well with Thais it seems.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bangkok Phil

I can't ever imagine a Filipino standing in front of me - face to face, toe-to-toe - and giving me grief.

I'd love to know what it's like. Before I smacked him.

---

Interesting.

Are there any other ethnic groups that you would immediately exact violence upon following a difference of opinion?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wobble

Interesting.

Are there any other ethnic groups that you would immediately exact violence upon following a difference of opinion?

---

Or just non-Whites?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wobble

Are there any other ethnic groups that you would immediately exact violence upon following a difference of opinion

---

Brits?

---Update---

Loud mouthed yanks?

It's clear from his av that he'd be a fearsome opponent in a clinch.

Aussie walk about drinking folks?

---Update---

Uptight Kiwis?

Crazy Irishmen?


probably a few methinks.........

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bangkok Phil

can't ever imagine a Filipino standing in front of me - face to face, toe-to-toe - and giving me grief.

I'd love to know what it's like. Before I smacked him.

---

http://www.mp8.ph/news/wp-content/up...o-iphone-2.jpg

http://www.ajarnforum.net/vb/avatars...ine=1326611979


:rock:

Hahaha 555...well, back on topic. Bangkok Phil's a reasonable poster in my estimation.

Indeed.

:wanker: Agreed. What's your 'conundrum' today, BKKP? Let's move on.

Neither of those posts are 'back on topic', by the way.

So right.

Do you have any advice? <---serious question

The petty side of me wants to find subtle ways to fuck with them. The reasonable side of me is currently running on empty.
It's the united we don't like our circumstances and have no recourse through administration, therefore we'll make everyone else burdened with our unhappiness, spread misinformation, fail to spread important information purposefully, voice our displeasure to the confused and uninvolved students, and generally make everyone uncomfortalbe attitude I'd like some perspective on.

Their situation is neither my fault or my design. No one forced them to accept it. I am the last person they should intentionally alienate, since we share a common purpose, no? :kenk:

I worked alongside a Filipino teacher once, she had a terrible accent and she'd tell the whole class ''You buffalo'' whenever she didn't get the answers she wanted.

Annoying cow, she was.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wobble

Neither of those posts are 'back on topic', by the way.

---

Such is life.

I hired a whole bunch of Filipino teachers over the years. Absolutely the best teachers ever. I'll take them any day over white folk.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cluezo

white folk.

---

...Shouldn't that read "White trash folk?"
Cluz...you and I set up schools....pick any country/location......money's no object.....Just to be clear..... you'd rather hire flippers over natives?:rock:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William money

you'd rather hire flippers over natives?

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No, of course not. Native speakers for English classes but Filipino teachers for math & science IN English. In my experience Filipino teachers make the very best employees. Mainly because they are always paranoid. They do anything to stay away from their mother country and that includes busting their asses to please their bosses :grin:

I know that's heartless, but ...

---Update---

Hold on ... we're not discussing Filipinos teaching English, are we? No, not possible ....

---Update---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William money

pick any country/location......money's no object.....Just to be clear..... you'd rather hire flippers over natives

---

In a perfect world like that, I'd hire white Harvard/Oxford linguistic freaks with PHDs - you bet

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cluezo

but Filipino teachers for math & science IN English.

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no fucking way! on average they don't know anything about math or science! hire Indians. they're better educated, their degrees are often from actual universities (as opposed to Filipino degree mills) and they have a hard time getting any other work in Thailand because they're Indian. they've also got the 'company man' mentality and won't rock the boat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cluezo

Mainly because they are always paranoid.

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true.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bangkok Phil

Before I smacked him

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You like to bully smaller people do ya?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zeusbheld

they've also got the 'company man' mentality and won't rock the boat.

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The Indians I hired were ok but not 'company men" -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Classic-Chassis

You like to bully smaller people do ya?

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I think you'll find in the hypothetical situation, the other guy is doing the bullying.

Czo, the people I am referring to are delightfully-skilled educators. That was never an issue. The fact is, though, they choose to be cunts at the expense of the farang staff, who really couldn't have less of a hand in determining their treatment. I resent it being taken out on me, and I also deplore the effect it has on overall morale. Since I am powerless to do anything about their compensation, for example, I feel I should be left alone. Especially when I treat them with the utmost respect...Valuing their advice, deferring to their seniority on uncomplicated matters, complimenting their abilities to students and staff when applicable.

The fuckers need to grow up. I am not the enemy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by educationalmercenary

I feel I should be left alone.

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This is something you have to handle on your own. Got nothing to do with the school. How old are you? If I may ask.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cluezo

The Indians I hired were ok but not 'company men" -

---

the ones we've had have had their kids in school here at "di'count" so they toe the line. also, math teachers are a different breed, and don't talk much unless spoken to anyway...

can't imagine how you could hire an evangelical nut job to teach science. cretinism i mean creationism isn't science. all our Filipinos/Filipinas are lovely folks and some are pretty good teachers, but every goddamn one of them is a cretinist nut job who basically doesn't believe in science, scientific methods, or facts trumping what it says in the bible. hiring religious nuts to teach science is a shortcut ... the results the Thai education system is getting.

Yes, they are cunts-for-jesus but I lay down the fucking law about teaching any christian shit. I've fired 3 teachers for doing that. Boom! Like that!

Shirley, crucifixion would have been more suitable...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cluezo

How old are you?

---

You seem to ask that a lot Clu.

I'm only joshing you Phil.
OP
Put them on ignore mate. Passive aggressive is the way to go. If you can't do that then take every opportunity you get to rub their collective nose if the fact you get more than them while being less qualified.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Classic-Chassis

You seem to ask that a lot Clu.

---

I do. Much easier to understand what's really going on when you know their age. I don't do it to demean.

I always liked working with flips. Very lowkey, polite, hardworking,.
As far as the office politics go its always been the native speakers who have caused the most problems.
And it's probably just a coincidence but Canandians seem to have caused the most office drama, both in Thailand and the schools I worlked at in Korea.

Canadians are the fucking worst people on the planet if you ask me. I had nothing but trouble with them - you remember, Fred

Don't hold back Cuez, tell us what you really think.
and yeah , i remember

James and that big lug - what was his name? And his sister? Oh my god - fucking Canadians and their "hey, we matter, too" attitude ... ugh!

and who hired them????

I know, I know ...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by educationalmercenary

I don't presuppose anyone's preferences or predispositions on the basis of nationality.

---

Another damned foreigner, eh?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cluezo

that big lug

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Frank. Fucking 8ft tall hulking, tedious Frank ...

^I can't help but think that the problems you had with Canadians were probably a reflection of the relative rankings of our respective countries' educational systems.

Quote:

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I can't ever imagine a Filipino standing in front of me - face to face, toe-to-toe - and giving me grief.

I'd love to know what it's like. Before I smacked him.

---

Wow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cluezo

I don't do it to demean

---

Why don't ya start your posts with, "I'm 65 you know!":grin:
Makes you look like an old fuddy duddy when you ask a person their age in order to try and get a grip on the reasoning. You never have asked me though so i presume you think i'm in the same ball park as you right?

I hope he never asks me. I'd have to lie.

LOL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cluezo

Yes, they are cunts-for-jesus but I lay down the fucking law about teaching any christian shit.

---

problem is, i've yet to meet a Filipino teacher in Thailand who knows as much science shit as my p4s (Filipino ersatz 'science' teachers, i only have 17 p4s), and i've met a few dozen. some bargain.

---Update---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fred flintstone

I always liked working with flips. Very lowkey, polite, hardworking,.
As far as the office politics go its always been the native speakers who have caused the most problems.

---

agree with this, but our Canadians have been good Canadians (one was pretty great actually, but he was from one of those hotbeds of liberalism and immigration like Toronto or Vancouver or wherever it is that russellsimpson views with suspicion. he was gay too, and dating a pop star). at our school the whinging poms cause the most problems. but the non-whinging poms are great.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zeusbheld

at our school the whinging poms cause the most problems

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Pissheads the lot of them.

IMO the best teachers were the young foreign girls with tight butts, firm pert tits and puffy nipples.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by manned-rake

^I can't help but think that the problems you had with Canadians were probably a reflection of the relative rankings of our respective countries' educational systems.

---

cluezo is quite articulate, but he can only be articulate going as deep as his thinking goes, which is very shallow: "oh my god, oh my god :wow::wow: that repuclican is pro god and anti-abortion" or other sensationalistic, tabloid-like thinking.

cluezo's cool, though, IMO, :cool: as he's one of ajarn's greatest (present) thread starters, but unfortunately has a simple mind like one of ajarn's most prolific posters', snaff. :duncecap:

^that was deep.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jonny danger

IMO the best teachers were the young foreign girls with tight butts, firm pert tits and puffy nipples.

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imo the best anything have tight butts, firm pert tits and puffy nipples.

http://www.marvelousmanboobs.com/img/mmb/boobs/davy.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zeusbheld

i've yet to meet a Filipino teacher in Thailand who knows as much science shit as my p4s

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Once, a "science" teaching flipper asked me to confirm what the 3 primary colours were....5 minutes before 'iz class....:adrian:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zeusbheld

at our school the whinging poms cause the most problems.

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Ain't gonna argue wiv that.....an' me being a pom an' all.:wink:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William money

Ain't gonna argue wiv that.....an' me being a pom an' all.

---

they're nearly as bad as the "America's the greatest and let me tell you what's wrong with your culture" Americans. fortunately though, parts-per-million wise, you don't see many of those over here. they tend to either stay home (many not bothering to ever get a passport) or if they're expats they land closer to home (South and Central America, the Caribbean). have to admit, this was part of the attraction of spending 22 hours on planes and in airports to get here.

this mentality:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l..._american1.jpg

American Exceptionalism :eyeroll:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...-America-2.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cluezo

American Exceptionalism

---

eeeexactly.

the attitude existed well before Fox McNews though. Fox is more guilty of pandering than axe grinding.

My friend says America is the greatest country in the history of the earth. In the entire history of the earth. :laugh:

He was born in California and now lives in Nevada - he has not been anywhere else in his life - nowhere. Yet he proudly makes this statement. What's wrong with people?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cluezo

My friend says America is the greatest country in the history of the earth.

---

Was...:adrian:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cluezo

My friend says America is the greatest country in the history of the earth. In the entire history of the earth.

---

Who would you nominate for this accolade, clu? Azerbaijan? Rome? Imperial China?

As these things go, it's a little hard to argue with your friend's, no doubt parochial, assessment. In history, anyway.

Or maybe you'd go with the Sumerians? Ziggurats up the yin-yang, those boys.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William money

Was...

---

i'd say even that leaves quite a bit of room for debate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robin Hood

I've had some bad experiences in the past. But you can not paint them all with the same brush.

---

I agree...I have employed excellent Filipino teachers...but also worked with some absolute crap...the same goes for most races.

Would you advocate using violence against a filipino colleague, kwl?

Or perhaps a more conciliatory, not to mention less racist approach might be more professional?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kiwiling

the same goes for most races

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Um, they aren't a race of their own, they're Asian. Shit, why do I find myself giving you guys anthro 101? I'll stop, honest.

---Update---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wobble

Would you advocate using violence against a filipino colleague, kwl?

---

If they get in my face I'll flog 'em until they say, Sir Whitey..

Quote:

---

"Racism" and "racial discrimination" are often used to describe discrimination on an ethnic or cultural basis, independent of their somatic (i.e. "racial") differences. According to the United Nations conventions, there is no distinction between the term racial discrimination and ethnicity discrimination.^[1]

---

Racism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here in Yankers that definition changed about 20 years ago. To notice the difference between you and others not of your race is racism. So you meet up with some pedestrian and strike up a conversation. He's Black so you bring up the subject of basketball .. racism.

The absolute most ignorant thoughts anyone can hold is how someone, somehow, could believe Jews are a race, or that Thais are a race.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jonny danger

Shit, why do I find myself giving you guys anthro 101?

---

Cuz when you dropped out of college you kept that textbook and have been carrying it around with you ever since?

Between this and your "grammar" nonsense, I find myself wondering how you tie your own shoes. :wow:

Loafers, right?

Seem like nice people to me. A few strange ones, but the vast majority are cool people, just like most other nationalities.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by manned-rake

Cuz when you dropped out of college you kept that textbook and have been carrying it around with you ever since? I find myself wondering how you tie your own shoes.

---

yes, daddy, but I'm not Cluz, i doubt his degree is in anth. how do you find your shoes? does the wife hunt them down?

---Update---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jakestevernson

Seem like nice people to me. A few strange ones, but the vast majority are cool people, just like most other nationalities.

---

Hooray! A man after my own heart. Have some salad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jonny danger

Hooray! A man after my own heart. Have some salad.

---

do they know enough to not eat marmite?

I hope so. You are what you eat. :unwell:

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm........Marmite on toast.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jonny danger

somehow, could believe Jews are a race

---

Zionism...

We White folk can bang Jewish girls and just squirt up in there without fear of impregnating them. After all, we're not the same species. :eyeroll:

I think the Filo got you covered :grin:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by educationalmercenary

Does anyone have a similar experience?

---

You bet.

---Update---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by educationalmercenary

'union' nature of it

---

There's a reason why they get in groups. Mainly it's to feel safe, but the leaders of such groups use it to reap off their members. I've seen it before back in the Philippines, in Australia and right here in Thailand.

How many "Filipino Association blah blah groups" are there in Thailand? Why isn't there just ONE? That's the way it is. Someone has a little dispute with another and they break off, start their own group. Kind of a tribal thing.

My advice -- assess the situation. How close are the Flips to the administration? Depending on how deep they've got their tongue in your boss' crack, you'd best play it safe, or move schools. The fact that it seems they get paid less however kinda makes it sound like they're not very liked in admin. But who knows?

There are some good Flips for sure, but I'm generally cautious when meeting new ones... although I could probably say the same for white backpackers from KSR.

And because I know my good colleagues are reading this, peace out. This ain't about you. Feel free to talk about the drunk stupid British or the arrogant asshole Americans (like the one posting) but you have to admit the nature of Filipinos is to use each other as stepping blocks to reach the top. Look at how it is back home. It's a sad state of affairs, one which if possible to change, can see the Philippines rising to it's former glory.

I came across this thread and lots of bashing from sweepingly-minded native-English-teacher-wannabe ignorants calling us flippers in general! Thanks to those who are not! I salute you! Umm…let us see who’s gonna flip out:

1- a Canadian wannabe teacher who decided to teach in Thailand coz what? Yeah, no more money for the “prosti” honey;
2- an Australian wannabe teacher who managed to sneak in to the teaching world because of what again? Yeah, no more repetitions here..just refer to no. 1.
3- an American wannabe teacher who by far had shown nothing but disgrace in the school he worked at and guess why? Because he hadn’t had a single knowledge about 2nd-language learners and had been constantly kicked out from every school he tried to scatter his shits around.
4- And then, let me be a sorta racist myself. British wannabe teachers are generally great! They respect, adore and cooperate to the respectable “flippers” (I hate this word and promise I will be coining terms for the bashers next time!) and never generalize. Plus, they used to turn out as one of the best TEFL teachers because they didn’t brag about owning the language. So, if you are a British basher here, you are not included to this praise, okey dokey?

So, who are you, basher? I am a Philippine teacher whom you didn’t exclude to your measly rant. If you are not more than me, I invite you to bring it on here. Let us see who is better, i.e.:

a- Have you successfully helped students in passing managerial level for TOEIC;
b- Have you had any students who passed TOEFL and IELTS score requirements in some UK and US universities;
c- Have you trained any students who won national speaking and spelling contests;

Simple questions for all the can-minded-English-native bashers here! There are more if you decide to bring it on…Flipper-bashing is good for dinner, I suppose -- and I make sure your words will come back to hit your very face. This “flipper” will surely flip you all out…Donkeys!

Just a note though…I admit I am kinda different than the others. All I am saying here is you need not generalize. There are lots of us (stop naming us flippers, please) who don’t whine, grief and kiss admin’s asses just to go forward. We are the ones who like to save the seemingly unsalvageable Filipino teachers’ situation here. We will never give up proving ourselves in the righteous ways, SO PLEASE DON’T GENERALIZE! That is all. And, if you are of a sound mind, you will stop using the f-word. It sounds so close to the f-word we all abhor once abbreviated. If you are a Canadian or Australian basher here, will you like me to coin this word for you: CREOLITIC NATIVE? I can start piecing out dreadful grammar from some bashers here. So, there!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

---Update---

Thank you...

---

Always polite though...:grin:

It was a first-user miss. I was trying to thank some posters for their encouraging words and not saying thanks at the end of my post. So, no...not polite. :tongue:

BTW, how do I keep quotes while replying to them just like what you did, Thaitanium? Appreciate your help :)

Highlite the text you want to quote and a little blue quote box will appear...click that and the text will appear in the quik reply box below...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thaitanium

Highlite the text you want to quote and a little blue quote box will appear...click that and the text will appear in the quik reply box below...

---

Aha, like this...Thanks! Now, that is polite. :)

you're welcome sir...and God be with you...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thaitanium

and God be with you...

---

Amen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by educationalmercenary

For those with Filipino coworkers...

Alright. Got one group of em, just pleasant and down to do the job just like the rest of us. Love em to pieces.

The other have cliqued-up and are determined to undermine all sorts of normal, everyday interactions, such as spreading the common announcements, disciplinary procedures (for students), and how we relate as a group to our bosses, who can't help themselves but regard us as a common foreigner group.

Their grief stems from perceived injustice in salary, benefits, and what you might expect...

---

Although you started this abysmal thread, I should recognize your predicament. So, some advices from a Filipino:

1- Hold on to the good group coz, for sure, they hate what those whiners are doing;
2- Speak out to the management as well, if you think they are abusing your peace. In that way, I guarantee 100% that they will come into terms with reality. They are deserving to be called "flippers". These are the ones who are seemingly insecure because, one way or the other, they know that they lack something English. I am sorry to say that they really need to improve everything that concerns professionalism starting from scratch. That is, improving their English to start with;

Oh and so much more to say. I just don't like to add to the creases coz, most of the time, it consumes me...:):):)

^Ajarn Phillippine, whilst I admire your contribution and your efforts, I do have a question, are you drunk? I cannot make head nor tail of what you is bangin on aboot...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by goo_stewart

^Ajarn Phillippine, whilst I admire your contribution and your efforts, I do have a question, are you drunk? I cannot make head nor tail of what you is bangin on aboot...

---

Am I or are you? Are you talking about my first post coz I don't see why you can't put your head (oh no, not the tail no matter how bushy yours is :)).

But, if you wish me to reply to the "...God be with you and the amen", here it is:

Halleluyah! (no pun intended)

Then, let us go back to the topic...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

Although you started this abysmal thread, I should recognize your predicament. So, some advices from a Filipino:

---

May I give some advice, on the word advice?

It's the same in its plural form as it is the singular.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theanimaster

Quote Originally Posted by educationalmercenary View Post
Does anyone have a similar experience?
You bet.

---Update---

Quote Originally Posted by educationalmercenary View Post
'union' nature of it
There's a reason why they get in groups. Mainly it's to feel safe, but the leaders of such groups use it to reap off their members. I've seen it before back in the Philippines, in Australia and right here in Thailand.

How many "Filipino Association blah blah groups" are there in Thailand? Why isn't there just ONE? That's the way it is. Someone has a little dispute with another and they break off, start their own group. Kind of a tribal thing.

My advice -- assess the situation. How close are the Flips to the administration? Depending on how deep they've got their tongue in your boss' crack, you'd best play it safe, or move schools. The fact that it seems they get paid less however kinda makes it sound like they're not very liked in admin. But who knows?

There are some good Flips for sure, but I'm generally cautious when meeting new ones... although I could probably say the same for white backpackers from KSR.

And because I know my good colleagues are reading this, peace out. This ain't about you. Feel free to talk about the drunk stupid British or the arrogant asshole Americans (like the one posting) but you have to admit the nature of Filipinos is to use each other as stepping blocks to reach the top. Look at how it is back home. It's a sad state of affairs, one which if possible to change, can see the Philippines rising to it's former glory.

---

Sad to say, you seem to be so knowledgeable; but then, I like to add this: not all of us. Yes, not all of us; and please start noting this from now on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

I can start piecing out dreadful grammar from some bashers here

---

Wow!....You can't be serious?.....Your writing is useless...par for the course with the flippers.....please let this be a wind up...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

CREOLITIC NATIVE?

---

I like it..whatever it means...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

who won national speaking and spelling contests

---

What..in Thailand?....:laugh:
Oh...and...Well done for keeping Manny Pacquiao out of the rant....:clap:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Robin Hood

Quote Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine View Post
Although you started this abysmal thread, I should recognize your predicament. So, some advices from a Filipino:
May I give some advice, on the word advice?

It's the same in its plural form as it is the singular.

---

---Update---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robin Hood

Quote Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine View Post
Although you started this abysmal thread, I should recognize your predicament. So, some advices from a Filipino:
May I give some advice, on the word advice?

It's the same in its plural form as it is the singular.

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Why not like this:

So, some advices (sic) from a Filipino...

Get it? Thanks! (just being polite here...:))

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Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

I came across this thread and lots of bashing from sweepingly-minded native-English-teacher-wannabe ignorants calling us flippers in general! Thanks to those who are not! I salute you! Umm…let us see who’s gonna flip out:

1- a Canadian wannabe teacher who decided to teach in Thailand coz what? Yeah, no more money for the “prosti” honey;
2- an Australian wannabe teacher who managed to sneak in to the teaching world because of what again? Yeah, no more repetitions here..just refer to no. 1.
3- an American wannabe teacher who by far had shown nothing but disgrace in the school he worked at and guess why? Because he hadn’t had a single knowledge about 2nd-language learners and had been constantly kicked out from every school he tried to scatter his shits around.
4- And then, let me be a sorta racist myself. British wannabe teachers are generally great! They respect, adore and cooperate to the respectable “flippers” (I hate this word and promise I will be coining terms for the bashers next time!) and never generalize. Plus, they used to turn out as one of the best TEFL teachers because they didn’t brag about owning the language. So, if you are a British basher here, you are not included to this praise, okey dokey?

So, who are you, basher? I am a Philippine teacher whom you didn’t exclude to your measly rant. If you are not more than me, I invite you to bring it on here. Let us see who is better, i.e.:

a- Have you successfully helped students in passing managerial level for TOEIC;
b- Have you had any students who passed TOEFL and IELTS score requirements in some UK and US universities;
c- Have you trained any students who won national speaking and spelling contests;

Simple questions for all the can-minded-English-native bashers here! There are more if you decide to bring it on…Flipper-bashing is good for dinner, I suppose -- and I make sure your words will come back to hit your very face. This “flipper” will surely flip you all out…Donkeys!

Just a note though…I admit I am kinda different than the others. All I am saying here is you need not generalize. There are lots of us (stop naming us flippers, please) who don’t whine, grief and kiss admin’s asses just to go forward. We are the ones who like to save the seemingly unsalvageable Filipino teachers’ situation here. We will never give up proving ourselves in the righteous ways, SO PLEASE DON’T GENERALIZE! That is all. And, if you are of a sound mind, you will stop using the f-word. It sounds so close to the f-word we all abhor once abbreviated. If you are a Canadian or Australian basher here, will you like me to coin this word for you: CREOLITIC NATIVE? I can start piecing out dreadful grammar from some bashers here. So, there!

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Yawn.
You'll never be a native speaker no matter how hard you try.

---Update---

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Originally Posted by Robin Hood

It's the same in its plural form as it is the singular.

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You mean an uncountable noun robin? LOL

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Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

Am I or are you? Are you talking about my first post coz I don't see why you can't put your head (oh no, not the tail no matter how bushy yours is ).

But, if you wish me to reply to the "...God be with you and the amen", here it is:

Halleluyah! (no pun intended)

Then, let us go back to the topic...

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I'm trying mate, I really am, but I still ain't understanding. Entertaining, but still incomprehensible...

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Originally Posted by Classic-Chassis

Yawn.
You'll never be a native speaker no matter how hard you try.

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And who is aspiring to be one? Did I wish something to that effect? Rest assured I didn't...ever! But, hey, it is Neanderthal to claim that the TEFL world is only for native speakers (hope you agree). 2nd-language learners need more things than knowing the slang! :)

---Update---

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Originally Posted by William money

Wow!....You can't be serious?.....Your writing is useless...par for the course with the flippers.....please let this be a wind up...

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So, wind it up! :)

---Update---

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Originally Posted by William money

I like it..whatever it means...

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Like it, but don't forget to dig it. :)

---Update---

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Originally Posted by William money

What..in Thailand?....

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If you are a teacher here, I'm surprised of your nincompoopery (no pun intended :grin:).

---Update---

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Originally Posted by goo_stewart

I'm trying mate, I really am, but I still ain't understanding. Entertaining, but still incomprehensible...

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Now, you are entertainin'.:grin:

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Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

nincompoopery

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A flipper that can take a bit of banter...never....wind up confirmed....

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Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

2nd-language learners need more things than knowing the slang!

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I'm just playing with you. Yes they do need more than slang. They also need a lot more than none native speaking teachers can give them I'm afraid.
For me Flips, (and I use the term in the friendliest of ways), fill a role. Anyone who is qualified to teach in the LOS doesn't want to spend 2 decades or more teaching Jonny Somchai, "Good morning, I'm fine thank you, and you?" with rising intonation. None natives can do that.
Of course, the natives speakers who aren't qualified will argue that Flips can't do that.
I've been fortunate enough to work with several Flips. My experience has been nothing but positive. One lady's English was terrible though, but she only taught health thankfully. I must admit I had a giggle at a 35 year old god fearing virgin teaching sex Ed but there you go.
I also find the references mand about God in the office mildly annoying, but I can live with it.
I did have another lady try to tell me that English was not a core subject. She was teaching Maths or science I can't remember. She had a licence to teach from the Philippines, so I think she was trying to take the moral high ground. That conversation didn't last long after i asked her where she would be now if it weren't for English.
Yes, Flips have there place. Teaching subject other than English, or teaching basic conversation to the masses.

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Originally Posted by William money

A flipper that can take a bit of banter...never....wind up confirmed....

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I wonder what are the terms synonymous with wind up. Hmmm...surrender, give up and what else? You call me flipper; I call you creolitic native. All native-speaker bashers will be called as such. Why? ...Dig it! Mind you, they will always make an excuse through incomprehensibility or whatever in order to mask their lameness. Hoot! Hoot!

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Originally Posted by Classic-Chassis

You mean an uncountable noun robin? LOL

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I didn't want to get too technical...

Ajarn Philippine....there's someone I'd like you to meet....this is the one they call Mucker....I think you'll get on really well....he loves God and can play the harmonica.......Oh..and...swallowing is not an option......

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Originally Posted by Classic-Chassis

I'm just playing with you. Yes they do need more than slang. They also need a lot more than none native speaking teachers can give them I'm afraid.
For me Flips, (and I use the term in the friendliest of ways), fill a role. Anyone who is qualified to teach in the LOS doesn't want to spend 2 decades or more teaching Jonny Somchai, "Good morning, I'm fine thank you, and you?" with rising intonation. None natives can do that.
Of course, the natives speakers who aren't qualified will argue that Flips can't do that.
I've been fortunate enough to work with several Flips. My experience has been nothing but positive. One lady's English was terrible though, but she only taught health thankfully. I must admit I had a giggle at a 35 year old god fearing virgin teaching sex Ed but there you go.
I also find the references mand about God in the office mildly annoying, but I can live with it.
I did have another lady try to tell me that English was not a core subject. She was teaching Maths or science I can't remember. She had a licence to teach from the Philippines, so I think she was trying to take the moral high ground. That conversation didn't last long after i asked her where she would be now if it weren't for English.
Yes, Flips have there place. Teaching subject other than English, or teaching basic conversation to the masses.

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Very well put! I HIGHLY commend you for this. Though, I strongly suggest that you tell her to improve her English. Being a science teacher (or whatever) is, for me, not an excuse to speak a close-to-out-of-this-world English. You are actually helping "us" in that way. If she feels offended, either it is the way you expressed the help or she simply does not care about teaching science in English more correctly. I don't buy her reasons regarding core subject blah-blah. Again, very well put! Thank you, oh, so much!

And for the devoted, I also don't know what to tell them at times...and I am a Filipino. So unfortunate, right?

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Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

But, if you wish me to reply to the "...God be with you and the amen", here it is:
Halleluyah! (no pun intended)

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Good, because you didn't make one.

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Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

If you are a teacher here, I'm surprised of your nincompoopery (no pun intended).

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Once again, you didn't make one.

If you don't intend a pun, and don't make one, why mention it?

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Originally Posted by NokYai

If you don't intend a pun, and don't make one, why mention it?

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And this bird doesn't know how to read smileys...hoot! hoot! (again)

---Update---

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Originally Posted by Robin Hood

I didn't want to get too technical...

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Technical is good so long as we wholly know the technicalities involved. Otherwise, don't bring up technicalities with holes, correct?

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Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

Technical is good so long as we wholly know the technicalities involved. Otherwise, don't bring up technicalities with holes, correct?

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Countable and uncountable nouns.

A glass can be counted. 2 glasses of Coke. Countable.

Coke in its separate entity can not be counted. Uncountable.

The same for advice. It can not be counted. Uncountable. So, no *S* at the end.

If you wanted to mention more than one example of advice, we would usually use *pieces* to suggest more than one occurrence.

Eg: " He gave me two pieces of advice"

(Please note once again, no *S* on the end of the word)

Primary English.

On a separate note. I think I have an ear infection coming .My ear drum is itching like crazy....:(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robin Hood

Countable and uncountable nouns.

A glass can be counted. 2 glasses of coker. Countable.

Coke in its separate entity can not be counted. Uncountable.

The same for advice. It can not be counted. Uncountable. So, no *S* at the end.

Primary English.

On a separate note. I think I have an ear infection coming .My ear drum is itching like crazy....

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Well then, is there something "technically" wrong with what I said:

So, some advices (sic) from a Filipino...

That was the way I wanted it to be. Tell me, yes, technically.

^you're embarrassing yourself.

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Originally Posted by fred flintstone

^you're embarrassing yourself.

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Hmmm...? Embarrasin' myself to someone who doesn't know how to begin a sentence properly. Rise up! Plus, read to catch up, okey dokey?

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Originally Posted by Robin Hood

Primary English.

On a separate note. I think I have an ear infection coming .My ear drum is itching like crazy....

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And yeah, "Primary English":

1- space or spaces after period with a following sentence;
2- ellipsis is a sequence of 3 dots not four.

Your beef on me regarding this could be a typo; but you wanted to blow it up into a larger proportion and talk about technicality and "Primary English". So, yes, let's talk about it...big time!

BTW, take something to prevent the ear infection. :grin:

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Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

blow it up into a larger proportion

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Not much to say about that...

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Originally Posted by fred flintstone

how many islands in the PI???

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Thanks for this question. If you studied world geography, you would very well know that the number changes when there is high tide.

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Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

And yeah, "Primary English":

1- space or spaces after period with a following sentence;
2- ellipsis is a sequence of 3 dots not four.

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Of course I know about spaces...It was a typo.

When you use an ellipsis to finish a sentence and there is no following sentence, then there are four dots. The last is a period to stop the sentence...You didn't know that?

I'm not a bad guy, so I don't want to flame...Good luck and Godspeed!

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Originally Posted by Robin Hood

Good luck and Godspeed!

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And an amen.

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Originally Posted by Robin Hood

I'm not a bad guy, so I don't want to flame...Good luck and Godspeed!

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I am not also bad. I just didn't like the bashing here at the beginning of this thread. Then, I saw the "flipper" thingy. It is outright a negative word for "us" unless people will think about the good ole friendly dolphin; but who will know it? It's way far from the modern TV, I suppose. Just stop the flipper or flips. Can I suggest fills or fils instead? Coz I will really start telling everyone to call nasty native-English teachers as something else the next time if this won't stop here. Ajarn.com is the "holy of the holies" in Thailand's foreign teachers' world, so no to bad generalization of Filipino English teachers here. In fact, we can all safely say that we, the highly educated and close-to-native Filipino English teachers, have been doing our best to educate the Thai students in a level not far from the native-English teachers. And, yes, we recognize big time that enthusiastic and good-natured native speakers of English can do more than us in the field of English teaching. So, why the bashing?

---Update---

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Originally Posted by goo_stewart

And an amen.

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Of course...:grin: Good luck and godspeed to all of you too! ;)

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Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

we, the highly educated and close-to-native Filipino English teachers

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If that is true, then why do you write like a 14 year old dyslexic? You are not a 'close-to-native' English speaker, you sound like an angry prepubescent non-English speaking teenager....

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Originally Posted by goo_stewart

If that is true, then why do you write like a 14 year old dyslexic? You are not a 'close-to-native' English speaker, you sound like an angry prepubescent non-English speaking teenager....

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Hmmm...? I think you are one of the...Never mind! I already decided to make peace with the others here. You rant the hell you want. Just know what you are talking about, okey dokey? And, yes, I can still very well be a teenager unlike you, I suppose. :grin: World peace!

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Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

And, yes, we recognize big time that enthusiastic and good-natured native speakers of English can do more than us in the field of English teaching.

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Do you Ajarn Philippine.....do you really feel this way?......You may reply...only with your hand on a bible....and if by some amazing chance you don't have one handy....I will trust you....because I know flippers don't cheat :neutral:........to stare at the picture below and say after me....
"I Ajarn Philippine...being of sound mind and body...do declare that all native speakers of English are better than me at teaching the subject"... :surrender:

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...9zMkE1413svPEk

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Originally Posted by William money

Do you Ajarn Philippine.....do you really feel this way?......You may reply...only with your hand on a bible....and if by some amazing chance you don't have one handy....I will trust you....because I know flippers don't cheat ........to stare at the picture below and say after me....
"I Ajarn Philippine...being of sound mind and body...do declare that all native speakers of English are better than me at teaching the subject"...

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God, I gonna die right now laughing...Sir William (you see that is a Sir)!!! But, you need to qualify my words: ONLY ENTHUSIASTIC AND GOOD-NATURED native-English teachers. The happy-go-lucky always open the doors for us and we are kinda appreciative of that.:grin::grin::grin:

---Update---

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Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

because I know flippers don't cheat

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Plus, the flipper, Sir William. I requested it to stop, yeah.:grin::grin::grin:

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Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

Well then, is there something "technically" wrong with what I said

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Wrote.

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Originally Posted by Classic-Chassis

Wrote.

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Online forums really? I can say wrote or said because THESE DAYS one can never differentiate them online. Why? What does the word "quote" stand for in online forums then? Anything online can be said or written. Nah, failed argument! Hmmm...

Having not directly worked with Filipinos, I will try to keep an open mind about their overall skills in English.

However, if someone were to generalise about that country's teachers from the repeated display of poor written language ability over the last few pages, then the, some might say, meagre salary offered to that nation's teachers of English might, in fact, seem extremely generous. This would of course be a disgraceful and incorrect thing to do.

Please note that I will be severely pissed off at myself if someone spots an error in the above.... :wanker: (aimed at myself....)

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Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

Plus, the flipper

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...shouldn't flipper be written with a capital F?...I had a Flip bf in Saudi and he said the term should be capitalized just like any other nationality...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LaGuardia

Having not directly worked with Filipinos, I will try to keep an open mind about their overall skills in English.

However, if someone were to generalise about that country's teachers from the repeated display of poor written language ability over the last few pages, then the, some might say, meagre salary offered to that nation's teachers of English might, in fact, seem extremely generous. This would of course be a disgraceful and incorrect thing to do...

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First off, your “if someone were…” clause is wrong considering the indicative mood or form of verbs in British English. Of course, in American English, that falls under the subjunctive form and will invalidate my first sentence; but, it is widely believed that the subjunctive mood or form of verbs seems not anymore applicable in the modern times (except if you are going to take the SAT or other American English proficiency tests). Additionally, for a 2nd language learner, these two verb forms will be surely confusing. If you are a hardcore-grammar foreign English teacher of a second-language learner, there is a huge challenge in teaching these two verb forms. I will be glad to hear your piece about this -- since I feel that you are a very astute native-English teacher. I am willing to learn from you.

Now, coming into terms with the part “...poor written language ability over the last few pages…”, I hope you very well understand that this is an online forum. Posters are free to be so informal with their language, so long as they will not forget the rules in punctuation and capitalization -- plus stuff like run-on sentences and dangling modifiers. Fragments are also acceptable because of the nature of communication. For my part, to claim that I have a poor written language ability is an understatement. I had a professional native-English proctor in my IELTS and I got an over-all band of 8.5. My TOEIC was 990. How would that fall into the category of poor? So, some might not actually have the right to say that a meager salary will suffice for me if I will just handle listening and speaking classes. In fact, I don’t teach grammar; although I always discuss simple rules alongside my teaching.

Please feel free to lecture me about anything.

---Update---

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Originally Posted by tomcat

...shouldn't flipper be written with a capital F?...I had a Flip bf in Saudi and he said the term should be capitalized just like any other nationality...

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That was what I was sayin'. I took it as a curse word like "nigger" (not capitalized...I'm sorry for the word, just an example) for blacks when some would like to be disrespectful. So, yes, by all means, call us Fils (F-I-L-S, plural) not Flips. Flippers or flips are disgusting for us. Either actually means something bad; I am telling you. Plus, why can't it be just Fils, yeah? Filipinos here will be happier for sure.

Ajarn Philippine you really are talking a lot of rubbish:

"I hope you very well understand that this is an online forum. Posters are free to be so informal with their language, so long as they will not forget the rules in punctuation and capitalization -- plus stuff like run-on sentences and dangling modifiers. Fragments are also acceptable because of the nature of communication."

Yes this is an online forum where we can be informal, therefore we don't have to follow any particular rules of we don't want to. You should also stop trying to impress with your use and knowledge of English, it just makes all of your very many mistakes look even worse.

Whilst I understand the reasons for your entering this discussion, so far it's not got you anywhere and you could probably make better use of your energy in some other way. Why not contribute to other topics here on Ajarn.net?

Having grammar fights with native English speakers in this topic is not a good way for someone such as yourself to contribute. You could give us your perspective on dozens of topics here and I'm sure you'd find your input is appreciated.

I probably should apologise. I am not usually that ratty, though I was trying to be slightly tongue in cheek- obviously I failed. However, the snotty attitude in your reply irritated me.

I never claimed to be a grammar wizard, though. No, I surrender- I'm merely a native speaker. Luckily, my job doesn't really require such an in-depth knowledge of grammar, and I can't think of many standard institutions in Thailand which would, as it would be overkill, for the most part. I will also state that I was posting quickly and carelessly.

I am sure you, as someone who had to actively study how the English language works in order to use it at all effectively, have a lot more knowledge about grammar rules. This is for the best, as it means you can substitute this knowledge for the ability to convey a point of view successfully or lucidly.

It doesn't change my opinion that

-your use of language is confusing to me (and not just to me, I would suspect);

-that your language affectations and points are quite banal;

-that your huffy manner is irritating;

-that your attempt to correct me shows a difficulty in getting your point across in simple terms (may I recommend a Tefl course?), which might not make you the best teacher in the average classroom in Thailand (I wasn't trying to teach you, so maybe if you are trying to teach me you should find a better way to do it, and not just try for a dick-measuring contest), and

-that your decision to not quote my final paragraph (an attempt to show some humility and self-deprecation on my part) was either mean-spirited or showed a lack of awareness of (possibly unsuccessful) such humour.

Oh, and I wouldn't dare lecture you, in your attempt to resurrect a month-old thread to use as a platform for your smugathon, as opposed to starting a new one; obviously, I couldn't give such an estimable person as yourself any advices. Oh, and due to the hour of posting, I might well not be thinking straight, but don't you mean that a claim that your writing ability is poor is an overstatement, not an understatement (or maybe that it would be the wrong phrase to use anyway- I would suggest insult, or maybe injustice?)? Sorry, just trying to wind you up.

See, not so much fun when someone corrects your lack of knowledge about language in a nit-picky, haughty way, is it? At least, not in the modern times.

---Update---

Having just read his considered and mature response (much better than mine), I would suggest Ajarn Philippine take on board what Fleabag suggested.

---Update---

Looking back at this post, I notice all the crappy mistakes ("that" used in the bullet points when the word was already used in the root sentence etc). However, it is still readable, and at least I checked it afterwards as I was concerned at how it looked; more consideration than was given by the IELTS/TOEIC master.

---Update---

Last one (promise)- I like the subjunctive, now I have googled it studied it for 30 seconds, and realised I use it quite often, unintentionally.

I also think it to be highly unimportant to my job to know much more than that about it, as given the general standard of conversation and (yes) grammar in this country, it is better to concentrate on other things. If you think it is vital to your job, you must work in a very (abnormally for Thailand) advanced international school or university, as otherwise you may well have wasted your time learning about it so earnestly and then lecturing me on it. I also think you may be wrong in at least some of what you said (though I may well be incorrect because I'm tired).

Wow, all that studying, all those tests, all that time and (possibly) money, and you still write like crap, even on a forum. That must hurt, just a little?

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Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

Of course, in American English, that falls under the subjunctive form and will invalidate my first sentence; but, it is widely believed that the subjunctive mood or form of verbs seems not anymore applicable in the modern times (except if you are going to take the SAT or other American English proficiency tests).

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the problem with all that theorizing is that it's just that. you're out of touch with the boots-on-the-ground reality of how the language is actually used, and quoting (without citing a source, i notice) some ivory-tower hypothesis that's irrelevant (at best) to the real world. the subjunctive is used quite often by native speakers as of 2012, so who exactly are these people who think it seems "not anymore applicable? name names (besides you, i mean).

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Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

I hope you very well understand that this is an online forum. Posters are free to be so informal with their language

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in which case, you should follow suit and not run around like a headless chicken trying to correct people's grammar. no one likes a grammar nazi, not even on a teaching forum. not entirely even-handed to run around saying that when you muck it's up it's you being informal, and when someone else (to your perception anyway) mucks it up, they've made a mistake (or are at least using archaic forms). as Fleabag said, aren't there better uses of your time and energy on here?

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Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

Plus, why can't it be just Fils, yeah? Filipinos here will be happier for sure.

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because you're not a son of a Frenchman? :p

i can see why you get annoyed over that "Flip" business but cheer up. on the surface at least, it sounds a lot nicer than "Seppo."

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Originally Posted by zeusbheld

Seppo

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...thanks for the capital s...takes the sting out, somehow...

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Originally Posted by zeusbheld

i can see why you get annoyed over that "Flip"

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Could be worse, it could be seppo or limey.

"…You should also stop trying to impress with your use and knowledge of English, it just makes all of your very many mistakes look even worse."

And who was trying to impress who? Gosh, live a life and learn how to read properly.

"...Having grammar fights with native English speakers in this topic is not a good way for someone such as yourself to contribute. You could give us your perspective on dozens of topics here and I'm sure you'd find your input is appreciated..."

And who was fighting who? Well, since you mentioned grammar (less the fights, please), so far all I got are these:
- Huge reaction from a typo and, when I used the word “sic” with brackets, I didn’t get a counter-reaction;
- When I commented on a mistake in punctuation (a “Primary English”), I was informed it was a typo and I accepted it right away;
- “Said” versus “Wrote” in an online forum (I remembered asking, REALLY?);
- When I mentioned the subjunctive mood of verb, hell broke loose for one new member (a native-Engish-speaking teacher in Thailand again) who didn’t happen to know (I don’t know why) that TOEIC and IELTS cost 1,500 Baht and 5,000+ respectively (big discounts for companies). One of which is a requirement for the non-B visa of Filipinos, so no to “all that studying, all those tests, all that time and (possibly) money” stupidity (SO STUPID, BTW; don’t ask me why, please! I’m getting sick of some native-speaker’s stupidity here);
- The indicative mood of verbs, by the way, should be a “Primary English” for a native speaker.

But wait, it seems rather so perplexing that you, guys (crappy ones, the creolitic natives), keep on telling me my posts are incomprehensible. Your litany of reactions and defenses says otherwise. No one is going to buy it, I suppose. You (crappy ones, the creolitic natives) seem to enjoy running around in circles. So there! I rest my case.

And then, I will never stop believing about perfect native-English-speaking teachers in Thailand. I always meet 2 (often times more) out of 10 who are helpful, well-mannered and “meaty” in their profession. Yes, not crappy unlike SOME of those whom I’ve met here so far (again, the crappy ones: creolitic natives).

Go, go creolitic natives! Eat your jambalayas big time! (Gosh, and don’t tell me that you don’t understand “jambalaya”! - ROFL)

Bye, bye! See you later (real) alligators!

^you're nuts

Guys......it aint a flipper ........no flipper...could be that good at being so bad .:laugh:

FLIP = F----- Little Island Person

As for the initial 'F' word.....up to you as some may say.

I'll go for....mmmmm.....let me see.....mmmm.......'Flowery' or 'Flatulent'

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Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

Flippers or flips are disgusting for us.

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Yanks/Seppos, Poms/Pommies, Kiwis, Frogs, Aussies, Canucks ... Flips. A term of endearment usually. Welcome to the club ... and pull your over sensitive head in.

;)

PS ... What are Sith Ifricans called?


EDIT: Never mind

http://www.southafricalogue.com/trav...oibos-tea.html

Quote:

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Hmmm I have just realised that as a nation we have no nickname!, i.e. Aussie, Yank, Brit, Frog, Kraut, Ruskie Something must be done. Strelitzia ?

---

What a boring lot!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teachermark

PS ... What are Sith Ifricans called?

---

Creolitics, maybe

According to one site, South Africa is referred to as "The Rainbow Nation". (Derived from some quote from Mandela).
I don't think I could bring myself to call them "Rainbows" :(

a) The expense, time, test taking etc. I was referring to was all that you have done in your entire lifespan of learning a foreign language, not just your most impressive test results. Seeing as the part of the post that the sentence appears in had nothing to do with IELTS/TOEIC, the only reason I can think of that you call me stupid (over not knowing something that has nothing to do with what I was writing about) is that you don't have very good reading skills;
b) I do know the costs for IELTS etc. There is no reason to know for my job or life, though- I know out only of vague interest.
c) I am actually downplaying my knowledge of grammar, just a little, but even so;
d) No, in general, native speakers of English don't learn about indicative moods of verbs in such a formal way, if at all (at least I can't ever remember doing so)- that's why it is so much more effortless for us when we write a sentence (think art as compared to science, if I can be poncey);
e) If it is such a basic thing to learn, why isn't it mentioned in any of the reputable textbooks I have seen that most students would use? Is it because it is needlessly complicated for what is trying to be achieved?
f) Have you ever thought about why devoting such time to grammar principles is so important for some non-native speakers such as yourself? Is it because it allows you to feel superior to native speakers who, in general, don't have to learn about it? Or is it because many non-native speaking schools don't have the ability to use English to communicate, and so substitute learning aboout grammar (which is taught haphazardly anyway), as they can pretend it is intrinsically useful and get more money from the students and their parents?
g) Should schools really be concentrating on grammar like this, treating a language like a puzzle to be cracked, or should they be trying to communicate instead? What would be more useful
h) If you are so good at the English language, why can't you write consistently correct sentences in English? My M2 students can do better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

But wait, it seems rather so perplexing that you, guys (crappy ones, the creolitic natives), keep on telling me my posts are incomprehensible. Your litany of reactions and defenses says otherwise. No one is going to buy it, I suppose. You (crappy ones, the creolitic natives) seem to enjoy running around in circles. So there! I rest my case.

---

Digging your own grave?

---Update---

Honestly, I don't know why I am doing this; I usually don't engage in such activities as trying to bring someone on a forum down, on the basis that it's not very productive, or enjoyable for me. I guess something about this guy's posts got under my skin. Hopefully he's pissed off now so I can stop trying (or I could just try to be more mature).

I was reasonable with the guy, in response he claims I need to "live a life". This person is stubborn, arrogant and stupid. Knowing technical data does not make a person clever, and this person is not clever. Frankly, they deserve all the crap they get by continuing their posting out-of-touch drivel based on empty and ill-informed rhetoric, ranting and sense of self-achievement.

The poster knows more grammar terms than their ability to actually use grammar properly, which is so much worse a crime for all their ego-filled self-aggrandisement. For those who take pleasure in such sports, this is a novel wind-up target, but for me it's a balloon full of hot air and little else that does not see reason nor can they respond with decency when someone presents them with a constructive way forwards.

If I feel mean spirited enough, maybe I'll join in flicking a few peanuts into the fool's cage, otherwise merely watching the fool drink its own piss is entertainment enough; for this is ultimately what we now have here: an entertainer, one that thinks it's being clever by blowing wind and pissing its un-needed product back into its own mouth, whilst the crowds pass by and laugh at it.

Ajarn Philippine, your only recourse is to continue to spread your arse cheeks and fart in our general direction that we use racist terms whilst operating on the same level yourself because for as long as you cannot see reason beyond your over-bearing sense of self-achievement you can never be respected here.

You have also proven you lack the ability to be a reflexive teacher and this is your greatest failing in this profession.

It's just a shame that you are going to be a perfect example of someone who would spread poison about native English speakers in Thailand so no matter that you came here to chastise us, you are the biggest hypocrite of all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Classic-Chassis

Could be worse, it could be seppo or limey.

---

limey's pretty awful actually because it brings up images of scurvy, malnourished, lice-infested, syphilitic sailors bumming each other, which has to turn even the queeniest Castro pride-parader's stomach (unless of course they have one of the strangest fetishes ever). that has to put it roughly level with seppo, which conjures images septic tanks but suggests well-maintained (or at least beloved) septic tanks by implying a diminutive form of septic.

Seppo and Limey and Flip, on the other hand, could all conceivably be someone's first name. in fact there are several distinguished persons who've had the first name (or nickname) flip (comedian Flip Wilson, basketball coach Flip Saunders) and there quite likely was a fourth of fifth stooge named Seppo, or maybe an extra Marx Brother. Limey, on the other hand, can't think of any. so really limey ends up being just short of the n-word and the English are being persecuted relentlessly.

Seeing as the bulk of international cargo ships crews are flips ... Errr... Flips ... we may as well call them Limeys as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teachermark

Seeing as the bulk of international cargo ships crews are flips ... Errr... Flips ... we may as well call them Limeys as well.

---

nah not in a day and age where we have canned and frozen orange juice, vitamin supplements and so forth.

---Update---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

One of which is a requirement for the non-B visa of Filipinos, so no to “all that studying, all those tests, all that time and (possibly) money” stupidity (SO STUPID, BTW; don’t ask me why, please! I’m getting sick of some native-speaker’s stupidity here

---

and i'm getting sick of your arrogance and that chip on your shoulder. you're hot shit? really? you seem rather smug in your assertion that you're better-educated than, say, me (for example), especially in regard to my mother tongue.

why do you think i should be impressed by the massive cost of TOEIC and IELTS, or their gravitas as an academic credential? they're basically inexpensive one-off tests of a remedial nature. if you think you've thereby demonstrated your alleged superiority, you haven't.

if you really want to impress and show your superiority over a native speaker let's compare academic credentials. if you can either a) beat my SAT percentage score, b) show me you've gotten a degree from a better university than the worst of the two universities i have a degree from, or c) get accepted by either of those, i'll be impressed and concede your right to talk disdainfully about "Creolitic natives."

otherwise please stop acting like an arrogant, ignorant jackass, or expect to be treated like one.

yeah thanks, bye.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zeusbheld

and i'm getting sick of your arrogance and that chip on your shoulder. you're hot shit? really? you seem rather smug in your assertion that you're better-educated than, say, me (for example), especially in regard to my mother tongue.

---

come on z. the guy's either a sock, on a wind-up mission or an idiot. no sense in taking him too seriously.

anyone have an expected shelf life for this guy?

i'm going with three days.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by crew

i'm going with three days.

---

Start a VBookie thread on it :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by crew

anyone have an expected shelf life for this guy?

i'm going with three days.

---

Where's the poll? :whistle:

Less than 3 days. He's gone already. If he comes back now it'll be his final posts. Having said that, his mentality wouldn't surprise me if he decides to troll the forum on a regular basis, he's that naff.


Meanwhile, wot no icebox?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fleabag

Less than 3 days. He's gone already. If he comes back now it'll be his final posts. Haviong said that, his mentality wouldn't surprise me if he decides to troll the forum on a regular basis.

---

Troll? I won't troll, but you see I am a very busy teacher in Thailand unlike you, guys! :grin::grin:

---Update---

Yeah, don't take me seriously because you all, creolitic natives, don't mean a thing to me. I'm laughing here with all your pretentions. They are all scattered here in this thread, cemented so clear! Honestly, I am so glad I came across this thread. Think about that! Think, ok? I said think! Use your head even just for once!

Someone non-native touching your egos? Errr...not acceptable! Well, I tell you this: RANT LIKE THERE IS NO TOMORROW! No one will care now coz you have exposed yourselves. I won't care…honestly! I have the respect of my past and current "perfect" native-English-speaking colleagues; that is fine for me! My strengths, plus accomplishments, as a person and an English teacher may have irked you to death. Die if you must then. Gracious God! Imagine, insecure native-speakers (a.k.a. CREOLITIC NATIVES, HA, HA!)!

Hope you, all creolitic natives, don't outnumber the perfect ones. Your words reflect who you all are. Trashy, to say the least!

BTW, if you happen to come across this thread and this reply the first time, make sure you read thoroughly first. You will find out the following:
- I didn't start the grammar checking and commenting. I was checked, so then I counter-checked! Those nut-headed creolitic natives couldn't accept their “Primary English” mistakes, thus the relentless rants. The height of hypocrisy!
- I was pushed to defend myself down the line. Human nature, that is all!
- I declared my utmost respect to the well-mannered and real-professional native speakers in Thailand. There would be no way that my harshness would be directed at them.

So, you all, creolitic natives, start putting your noses down. It is not helping! Your true colors are showing, plus your nasal hair…protruding! HA, HA! You all might start plucking them…eww!

And, hey, don’t worry. I am thinking to provide time for you, guys, since you seem to miss me so quick. Gosh, what is happening here? HA, HA! Am I really going to waste my time for the trashy?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zeusbheld

and i'm getting sick of your arrogance and that chip on your shoulder. You're hot shit? Really? You seem rather smug in your assertion that you're better-educated than, say, me (for example), especially in regard to my mother tongue.

Why do you think i should be impressed by the massive cost of toeic and ielts, or their gravitas as an academic credential? They're basically inexpensive one-off tests of a remedial nature. If you think you've thereby demonstrated your alleged superiority, you haven't.

If you really want to impress and show your superiority over a native speaker let's compare academic credentials. If you can either a) beat my sat percentage score, b) show me you've gotten a degree from a better university than the worst of the two universities i have a degree from, or c) get accepted by either of those, i'll be impressed and concede your right to talk disdainfully about "creolitic natives."

otherwise please stop acting like an arrogant, ignorant jackass, or expect to be treated like one.

Yeah thanks, bye.

---

/


/brag.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by crew

come on z. the guy's either a sock, on a wind-up mission or an idiot. no sense in taking him too seriously.

---

therein lies the fun. if he's an idiot he won't know what just happened, and if he's on a windup he'll feel a sense of accomplishment. win-win!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by po3try

/brag.

---

nah more like saying, put your money where your mouth is (and even you would have to admit there was a lot of mouth).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by po3try

Quote Originally Posted by zeusbheld View Post
and i'm getting sick of your arrogance and that chip on your shoulder. You're hot shit? Really? You seem rather smug in your assertion that you're better-educated than, say, me (for example), especially in regard to my mother tongue.

Why do you think i should be impressed by the massive cost of toeic and ielts, or their gravitas as an academic credential? They're basically inexpensive one-off tests of a remedial nature. If you think you've thereby demonstrated your alleged superiority, you haven't.

If you really want to impress and show your superiority over a native speaker let's compare academic credentials. If you can either a) beat my sat percentage score, b) show me you've gotten a degree from a better university than the worst of the two universities i have a degree from, or c) get accepted by either of those, i'll be impressed and concede your right to talk disdainfully about "creolitic natives."

otherwise please stop acting like an arrogant, ignorant jackass, or expect to be treated like one.

Yeah thanks, bye.
/


/brag.

---

Yeah...big time! But, awfully pathetic. Not impressive at all.

When someone reads the entirety of my posts, there was no way I bragged like this. I never took the offensive this way. Really pathetic! That is why there is this thing called "CREOLITIC NATIVES". There's something so true now to the saying: THE BADNESS OF ONE BAD EGG MAY AFFECT THE GOODNESS OF THE GOOD ONES.

But, for me, no! The bad eggs are egg-headed anyway, so why bother...HA, HA!:grin:

He's just a child or he would see how daft it is to claim he doesn't give a damn about us yet he keeps coming back to reply; and that one of his main points when entering the topic was that 'Flip' is offensive, but he has lost all dignity in calling us names himself.

Emotionally immature. Maybe that explains why he turned on me when I posted to offer suggestions how he could have played a good part on these forums.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fleabag

He's just a child or he would see how daft it is to claim he doesn't give a damn about us yet he keeps coming back to reply; and that one of his main points when entering the topic was that 'Flip' is offensive, but he has lost all dignity in calling us names himself.

Emotionally immature. Maybe that explains why he turned on me when I posted to offer suggestions how he could have played a good part on these forums.

---

Check everything you said. Now, if you were honest with your words, let me raise up my apology flag and exclude you amongst the "creolitic" ones.

BTW, I am a she, a very young beautiful lady of 26; so, please use the correct pronoun.:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

but you see I am a very busy teacher in Thailand unlike you, guys!

---

maybe i'm just better at managing my time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

My strengths,

---

such as?

Quote:

---

plus accomplishments, as a person

---

such as?

Quote:

---

and an English teacher

---

aside from kids passing tests (which you've awarded yourself sole credit for, as if the kids themselves had no hand in it) what?

Quote:

---

may have irked you to death.

---

hah, you give yourself too much credit. as usual. but you are amusing, in the exact same way as poking a tokkae with a stick.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

Your words reflect who you all are.

---

as do yours. think about that.

Quote:

---

Trashy, to say the least!

---

you seem to see yourself as the archetypal Filipino teacher. hopefully most people know better. hopefully no Filipinos and Filipinas are read your tirades (unless of course they like to cringe).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

creolitic

---

you enjoy bandying around academic jargon yet don't seem to know what it means. (hint: there are a limited number of English-based creole languages, see if you can figure out why the term is unlikely to apply to even the most illiterate native-speaker you've encountered here or anywhere).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zeusbheld

you seem to see yourself as the archetypal Filipino teacher. hopefully most people know better. hopefully no Filipinos and Filipinas are read your tirades (unless of course they like to cringe).

---

High or drunk? Crappyyyyyyyyyy! You make me wanna puke. I don't like you. This is the last time I am replying to you IF YOU DON'T IMPROVE YOUR POSTS. I think you are the most stupid creolitic native here. And pleaseeee...read before you rant. That way you can show a little of what you are bragging about. Useless!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

When someone reads the entirety of my posts, there was no way I bragged like this.

---

do you even read what you write? you've done little else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

That is why there is this thing called "CREOLITIC NATIVES".

---

not really, there isn't. there's just you trying to sound impressive by using academic jargon you don't even understand.

Quote:

---

There's something so true now to the saying: THE BADNESS OF ONE BAD EGG MAY AFFECT THE GOODNESS OF THE GOOD ONES.

---

yes. now imagine what happens if some ill-informed reader believes that all Filipinos and Filipinas are as arrogant as you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

High or drunk? Crappyyyyyyyyyy! You make me wanna puke. I don't like you. This is the last time I am replying to you IF YOU DON'T IMPROVE YOUR POSTS. I think you are the most stupid creolitic native here. And pleaseeee...read before you rant. That way you can show a little of what you are bragging about. Useless!

---

:laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

High or drunk?

---

neither. are you illiterate or just stupid?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

I don't like you.

---

you don't need anyone to like you. you can just bask in the radiance of your own imagined greatness.

Quote:

---

This is the last time I am replying to you IF YOU DON'T IMPROVE YOUR POSTS.

---

now there's a threat.

Quote:

---

I think you are the most stupid creolitic native here.

---

and you're not exactly Jessica Hagedorn, ace.

zeus, you were guessed on my "guess the poster" guess on s.z. :tongue:


and i don't know, but i guess you were wound up by Ajarn Philippine. :ajarn:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Farangrakthai

and i don't know,

---

obviously.

Quote:

---

but i guess you were wound up by Ajarn Philippine.

---

no, i'm enjoying this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zeusbheld

no, i'm enjoying this.

---

well, bigging yourself up is funny. :tongue:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zeusbheld

why do you think i should be impressed by the massive cost of TOEIC and IELTS, or their gravitas as an academic credential? they're basically inexpensive one-off tests of a remedial nature. if you think you've thereby demonstrated your alleged superiority, you haven't.

if you really want to impress and show your superiority over a native speaker let's compare academic credentials. if you can either a) beat my SAT percentage score, b) show me you've gotten a degree from a better university than the worst of the two universities i have a degree from, or c) get accepted by either of those, i'll be impressed and concede your right to talk disdainfully about "Creolitic natives."

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Farangrakthai

well, bigging yourself up is funny.

---

i notice how meticulously you avoid anything like a context. you do realize it was in response to something, don't you?

as resident quote-miner, no. probably you don't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fleabag

one of his main points when entering the topic was that 'Flip' is offensive, but he has lost all dignity in calling us names himself.

---

Case dismissed!! ;)

---Update---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

please use the correct pronoun

---

Ajarnette Flip?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zeusbheld

i notice how meticulously you avoid anything like a context. you do realize it was in response to something, don't you?

as resident quote-miner, no. probably you don't.

---

don't f*ck with me and i wont' f*ck with you. :ajarn:

you do love to bigg yourself up, though. :tongue:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

I am a she, a very young beautiful lady of 26

---

Oh no! She's on a husband hunt! Only 4 years to her expiry date!

---Update---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

creolitic

---

For Gods sake! Someone get it a thesaurus!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Farangrakthai

don't f*ck with me and i wont' f*ck with you.

---

yet, here you are doing exactly that.

what's next? how do you escalate? cyber-stalking? hacking my bank account? contacting my mom and posting my baby pictures? you're creepy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zeusbheld

et, here you are doing exactly that.

what's next? how do you escalate? cyber-stalking? hacking my bank account? contacting my mom and posting my baby pictures? you're creepy.

---

just doing what you were doing with me, asking to open my pm so you could do your angry thing. ha ha. :laugh:

God bless the afflicted and amen. But I am enjoying this, I DO like it when trolls get wound up after they start stuff. Great stuff, like the meltdown.

Now, can I describe myself as beautiful and look for a hubby on a forum populated by illiterate loser whities? I AM beautiful, at least in my world.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zeusbheld

why do you think i should be impressed by the massive cost of TOEIC and IELTS, or their gravitas as an academic credential? they're basically inexpensive one-off tests of a remedial nature. if you think you've thereby demonstrated your alleged superiority, you haven't.

if you really want to impress and show your superiority over a native speaker let's compare academic credentials. if you can either a) beat my SAT percentage score, b) show me you've gotten a degree from a better university than the worst of the two universities i have a degree from, or c) get accepted by either of those, i'll be impressed and concede your right to talk disdainfully about "Creolitic natives."

---

you really do think you're the shit!!! don't you, zeus?


:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Farangrakthai

ust doing what you were doing with me, asking to open my pm so you could do your angry thing. ha ha.

---

not much of an analogy really.

---Update---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Farangrakthai

you really do think you're the shit!!! don't you, zeus?

---

no, actually. but when someone declares their superiority i'd expect them to demonstrate it. you for example. what makes you think you're such hot shit?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zeusbheld

no, actually. but when someone declares their superiority i'd expect them to demonstrate it. you for example. what makes you think you're such hot shit?

---

you've only been on ajarn forum for 1 1\2 years. you don't realize that trolls are winding you up and making you look like a fool. :laugh:

Still going, huh?:adrian:

Made me think that maybe Thailand pays Filipinos less because, in addition to their willingness to abase themselves in return for being able to stay out of the Philippines (giving a green light for exploitation), some (not most) of their ilk like to spout of about how great they are at English. I'm not sure Thai people like being reminded that other Asians have more success in speaking English; they might not really like the fact they employ native speakers, so who knows what they feel about employing other Asians? It might sting a bit, so they generally pay less? If so, well done for screwing over your country's foreign teacher salaries with your arrogance!

I'm sorry if any of that is not true, just what I have gleaned from anecdotal evidence and my own probably very faulty logic. I am willing to be corrected harshly, said the bishop to the actress.

In this vein, I've heard that the standard of English speakers in the Philippines has been falling in recent years, ably demonstrated by Ajarn P. Don't worry, I'm sure Thailand will eventually switch to Chinese, so we all lose...

Finally, because this isn't much fun anymore, the distinguished Ajarn seems to like invoking God. I'm not going through all his/her bilge to count. I'm not religious, but it might be possible that God wants to be kept out of this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LaGuardia

the standard of English speakers in the Phillippines has been falling in recent years, ably demonstrated by Ajarn P

---

To be fair ... that's a bit of an exaggeration. Her written English seems OK. (Grammar wise ... not content ;))

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Farangrakthai

you've only been on ajarn forum for 1 1\2 years. you don't realize that trolls are winding you up and making you look like a fool.

---

are you sure you know who the trolls are? seems i've done a pretty good job winding you up, although you don't need my help looking like a fool.

---Update---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LaGuardia

I'm not religious, but it might be possible that God wants to be kept out of this.

---

yes, the NCAA basketball tournament is happening. he's got a lot of religious ballers' free throws to help with.

I can't believe I have spent this long on a troll / idiot (delete as applicable).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zeusbheld

are you sure you know who the trolls are? seems i've done a pretty good job winding you up, although you don't need my help looking like a fool.

---

sorry zeus, but calling russ a "cheat" for messing up on the v-poll and bragging to newbies about your qualifications makes you look like an idiot. :ajarn:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zeusbheld

and i'm getting sick of your arrogance and that chip on your shoulder. you're hot shit? really? you seem rather smug in your assertion that you're better-educated than, say, me (for example), especially in regard to my mother tongue.

why do you think i should be impressed by the massive cost of TOEIC and IELTS, or their gravitas as an academic credential? they're basically inexpensive one-off tests of a remedial nature. if you think you've thereby demonstrated your alleged superiority, you haven't.

if you really want to impress and show your superiority over a native speaker let's compare academic credentials. if you can either a) beat my SAT percentage score, b) show me you've gotten a degree from a better university than the worst of the two universities i have a degree from, or c) get accepted by either of those, i'll be impressed and concede your right to talk disdainfully about "Creolitic natives."

otherwise please stop acting like an arrogant, ignorant jackass, or expect to be treated like one.

yeah thanks, bye.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NokYai

Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine
But, if you wish me to reply to the "...God be with you and the amen", here it is:
Halleluyah! (no pun intended)

Good, because you didn't make one.

Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine
If you are a teacher here, I'm surprised of your nincompoopery (no pun intended).

Once again, you didn't make one.
If you don't intend a pun, and don't make one, why mention it?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

Originally Posted by NokYai
If you don't intend a pun, and don't make one, why mention it?

And this bird doesn't know how to read smileys...hoot! hoot! (again)

---

What does that even mean? I saw your smileys. I wouldn't say that I read them. Did the smileys imply that you recognize that you didn't make any puns to begin with? I guess I missed the whole point of your use of the smiley. What does it mean when you put a smiley after an invalid statement?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Farangrakthai

sorry zeus, but calling russ a "cheat" for messing up on the v-poll and bragging to newbies about your qualifications makes you look like an idiot.

---

sorry, FRT, but quote mining and keeping track of dozens of posters' posts for years on end makes you look like a creepy, obsessive idiot. besides, unless you're so effective as a stalker that you out my 'real' identity, why would i care if i look like an idiot on here? isn't that what AF's for?

Teachermark, I will admit you are correct. If I'm being honest, she is understandable, if deranged. Not the worst writer of English from her country I've ever seen (or the best, and better than many from my country). It's entertaining to me to note the grammar mistakes made by someone who believes they are such hot shit at it, that's all.

However, I can't believe I have spent this long on a troll / idiot (delete as applicable).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zeusbheld

sorry, FRT, but quote mining and keeping track of dozens of posters' posts for years on end makes you look like a creepy, obsessive idiot. besides, unless you're so effective as a stalker that you out my 'real' identity, why would i care if i look like an idiot on here? isn't that what AF's for?

---

nothing creepy about it, i have a memory of more than a few days (more than a few years). deal with it, mother fucker. :tongue:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Farangrakthai

nothing creepy about it, i have a memory of more than a few days (a few years). deal with it, mother fucker.

---

no, when you obsess over the details of so many posters, and delight in posting other posters' personal details out of context,

YOU ARE CREEPY.

any bodies in your basement, fruitcake?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zeusbheld

no, when you obsess over the details of so many posters, and delight in posting other posters' personal details out of context,

YOU ARE CREEPY.

any bodies in your basement, fruitcake?

---

i'll repeat what i posted before:

sorry zeus, but repeatedly calling russ a "cheat" for messing up on the v-poll and bragging to newbies about your qualifications makes you look like an idiot. :ajarn:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zeusbheld

and i'm getting sick of your arrogance and that chip on your shoulder. you're hot shit? really? you seem rather smug in your assertion that you're better-educated than, say, me (for example), especially in regard to my mother tongue.

why do you think i should be impressed by the massive cost of TOEIC and IELTS, or their gravitas as an academic credential? they're basically inexpensive one-off tests of a remedial nature. if you think you've thereby demonstrated your alleged superiority, you haven't.

if you really want to impress and show your superiority over a native speaker let's compare academic credentials. if you can either a) beat my SAT percentage score, b) show me you've gotten a degree from a better university than the worst of the two universities i have a degree from, or c) get accepted by either of those, i'll be impressed and concede your right to talk disdainfully about "Creolitic natives."

otherwise please stop acting like an arrogant, ignorant jackass, or expect to be treated like one.

yeah thanks, bye.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by LaGuardia

However, I can't believe I have spent this long on a troll / idiot

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i think of it as a hobby. dorky? yes. but at least it's not as dorky as having a massive n-scale train layout taking over my living room (and right now, i'll bet FRT's making a mental note to himself about my n-scale train layout)

---Update---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Farangrakthai

i'll repeat what i posted before:

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and i'll repost the reply since you're utterly lacking in imagination:

sorry, FRT, but quote mining and keeping track of dozens of posters' posts for years on end makes you look like a creepy, obsessive idiot. besides, unless you're so effective as a stalker that you out my 'real' identity, why would i care if i look like an idiot on here? isn't that what AF's for?
HOW MANY BODIES IN YOUR BASEMENT THEN, CREEPAZOID?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zeusbheld

and i'll repost the reply since you're utterly lacking in imagination:

sorry, FRT, but quote mining and keeping track of dozens of posters' posts for years on end makes you look like a creepy, obsessive idiot. besides, unless you're so effective as a stalker that you out my 'real' identity, why would i care if i look like an idiot on here? isn't that what AF's for?
HOW MANY BODIES IN YOUR BASEMENT THEN, CREEPAZOID?

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once again zeus is having a meltdown!!!!!:pity::pity::pity::pity::pity::pity:: pity::pity:

Chaps STOP IT, you are scarring the troll....

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Originally Posted by Farangrakthai

once again zeus is having a meltdown!!!!!

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you still haven't answered the question. how many?

---Update---

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Originally Posted by goo_stewart

Chaps STOP IT, you are scarring the troll....

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good point. pick another thread, BTK, i'll look for you in "new posts."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zeusbheld

you still haven't answered the question. how many?

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so, many,

i mean w.t.f., zeus, you are the hot shit? tell ajarn posters how good your qualifications are, etc. :roll:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zeusbheld

and i'm getting sick of your arrogance and that chip on your shoulder. you're hot shit? really? you seem rather smug in your assertion that you're better-educated than, say, me (for example), especially in regard to my mother tongue.

why do you think i should be impressed by the massive cost of TOEIC and IELTS, or their gravitas as an academic credential? they're basically inexpensive one-off tests of a remedial nature. if you think you've thereby demonstrated your alleged superiority, you haven't.

if you really want to impress and show your superiority over a native speaker let's compare academic credentials. if you can either a) beat my SAT percentage score, b) show me you've gotten a degree from a better university than the worst of the two universities i have a degree from, or c) get accepted by either of those, i'll be impressed and concede your right to talk disdainfully about "Creolitic natives."

otherwise please stop acting like an arrogant, ignorant jackass, or expect to be treated like one.

yeah thanks, bye.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Farangrakthai

i mean w.t.f., zeus, you are the hot shit? tell ajarn posters how good your qualifications are, etc.

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you do realize that you've posted this several times already don't you?

but then, tedious is the new exciting for you isn't it psycho-stalker?


gOt AnY PeRSoNaL DeTAILs On mE, pSYChO?

ps, BTK, you did notice that it's already been requested to take this to another thread, right? go for it, otherwise your obsession will just end up steering a perfectly entertaining thread (at least it was until you showed up) toward the icebox...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zeusbheld

you do realize that you've posted this already. but then, tedious is the new exciting for you isn't it psycho?

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i'm the "psycho"? and you're the one "hot shit" for having so many degrees? :rock:

:roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zeusbheld

and i'm getting sick of your arrogance and that chip on your shoulder. you're hot shit? really? you seem rather smug in your assertion that you're better-educated than, say, me (for example), especially in regard to my mother tongue.

why do you think i should be impressed by the massive cost of TOEIC and IELTS, or their gravitas as an academic credential? they're basically inexpensive one-off tests of a remedial nature. if you think you've thereby demonstrated your alleged superiority, you haven't.

if you really want to impress and show your superiority over a native speaker let's compare academic credentials. if you can either a) beat my SAT percentage score, b) show me you've gotten a degree from a better university than the worst of the two universities i have a degree from, or c) get accepted by either of those, i'll be impressed and concede your right to talk disdainfully about "Creolitic natives."

otherwise please stop acting like an arrogant, ignorant jackass, or expect to be treated like one.

yeah thanks, bye.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by goo_stewart

Chaps STOP IT, you are scarring the troll....

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Really? Scarring?

But, don't worry. I am being choosy now. I'll give my words to the deserving. It is good to know that there was an admission of the illiterate whities (a.k.a. "creolitic" natives) somewhere here. I don't even like to quote anymore next time. BTW, "creolitic" in a thesaurus, really? Come on, grow up! I'm getting tired of the illiterates; I mean the creolitic naives (without the t). Hey, what a variation! Flexible name-calling! Like it!:grin:

---Update---

Go, go, Farangrakthai. I am beginning to love you! :grin:

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Originally Posted by Farangrakthai

i'm the "psycho"?

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yes. obviously. obsessed much, BTK?

Quote:

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and you're the one "hot shit" for having so many degrees?

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only compared to po3try. and probably, you.

---Update---

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Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

Go, go, Farangrakthai. I am beginning to love you!

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well there you go. you've found your new husband, beautiful.

Smilin' here. Why don't I invite you, guys, for coffee? Great, so that I'll know where the insecurity is coming from! The big fat bellies! Eww! No coffee then. Sad!:(

But, I have a huge hunch about Sir William Money being a very respectable-looking man and Farangrakthai as that gorgeous whitie. Or, maybe Classic Chassis as a muscled gym buff.

The rest, nah! All Chuck Norris wannabes with big fat bellies...Eww!:laugh:

Meltdown continues...

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Originally Posted by goo_stewart

Meltdown continues...

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Who? You? Are you experiencing the meltdown? Surely, not me because I'm smiling. Here, take a look :grin::grin::grin::grin::grin:. Can't you see? Aha, your glasses are old! Change them oldie!

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Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

and Farangrakthai as that gorgeous whitie.

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you really should invite me to the wedding considering the role i played as a matchmaker.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

BTW, "creolitic" in a thesaurus, really? Come on, grow up!

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Errr, no. Lighten up, have a mint tea and relax. The menstrual side effects will be over soon. ;)

---Update---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teachermark

Oh no! She's on a husband hunt! Only 4 years to her expiry date!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

Go, go, Farangrakthai. I am beginning to love you!

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Uh oh.

can someone please tell me what the fuck creolitic means???

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Originally Posted by zeusbheld

only compared to po3try. and probably, you.

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oh! Wanna play Top Trumps with degrees again? OK... what have you got for debt amounted? I bet I win on that!!!11111 ;)

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Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

It is good to know that there was an admission of the illiterate whities

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I tried to stay out of it but I just couldn't do it! Ad hominem ...Really distasteful to use skin colour as well.

Either a bored troll or a crazed 15 grand a monther!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by po3try

what have you got for debt amounted? I bet I win on that!!!

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depends. define a win. most or least debt? and i can count the loan sharks, bookies and drug dealers i owe?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by po3try

can someone please tell me what the fuck creolitic means???

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It's like, paralytic. But it means you have drank shed water-proofing paint instead of alcohol....:grin:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robin Hood

Really distasteful to use skin colour as well.

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to be fair to her, not any more distasteful than using ethnicity... that whole "flipper" business is what set her off in the first place.

---Update---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by po3try

can someone please tell me what the fuck creolitic means???

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inbred offspring of a creole. i hates it when someone calls my momma a creole.

^:clap::clap:

^ did someone call yer maw a creole too?

In fact, I haven't a clue what it means...Never heard of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXWUf...p;feature=fvsr


Methinks this clip captures the attitudes of some of the more juvenile posters here.

How humble of you to describe yourself as beautiful. How good-natured of you to mock the appearance of others (while not knowing it to be true or not). How deep of you think this would be an important quality anyway, and to resort to that method of attack.

What with the tiptop language skills (and the amazing amount of pride you have for them) and the non-abrasive character, I bet you are quite a catch! Just take care that the two huge sacks of spuds you carry on your shoulders don't fall off.

BTW, you have probably outpaced the racial name-calling (which I was not party to, just to take the high road over you) with your own ridiculous attempts by now. What a productive use of your time...

Though maybe I'm not much better at time management (I am on holiday however).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fortesque Smythe Brown

Methinks this clip captures the attitudes of some of the more juvenile posters here.

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Again? That must be the most used clip on AF :tongue:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zeusbheld

^ did someone call yer maw a creole too?

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More times than I care to recall.

Interesting choice of word/concept for a Philippina to choose to rag on NES illiteracy with when you consider that many Phillipine speakers of English do so in a near "creole" fashion and that an Asian culture so thoroughly soaked in Roman Catholicism and American pop is almost surely worthy of Creolite itself.

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Originally Posted by Teachermark

Again? That must be the most used clip on AF

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next will be that "arguing on the internet is like the special olympics" graphic. evergreen!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ajarn Philippine

Sir William Money being a very respectable-looking man

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Mahal Kita Ajarn Philippine....I want to have your babies....and just to get the curtains dripping.....
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...wfUqQCJJoZC0Ws

Why you slimy casanova, you... show her yer shorts, socks and oxfords Sir Will and see if you don't just get a chaperoned date!

^^yeah Bill, while we are about it, what have you been doing to attract this beauty? Seems you have pulled. good work fella.

Well since her claim to be female, 26 and beautiful was addressed to me, I'm on her side now and you white trashy bastards all suck, though I have no idea what Elvis has to do with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA_zS6-dO7Q

^so, I will address my question to you sexy cheeks, what have you done to attract this beautiful, intelligent lass? Lucky you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnKOVPXhlnE

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Originally Posted by goo_stewart

^so, I will address my question to you sexy cheeks, what have you done to attract this beautiful, intelligent lass? Lucky you...

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I merely suggested she could play a part on these forums providing her own perspective, to which she told me to get a life. However, I persisted in being a nice guy until she admitted she's actually a girl and went for William Money.

She shoulda seen his shoes 'n' socks avatar.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fleabag

However, I persisted in being a nice guy until she admitted she's actually a girl and went for William Money.

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she's gonna marry FRT, but Money B'll be her gik. you're a distant third, sorry.

Possibly the best trolling I've ever seen. Really top notch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by po3try

can someone please tell me what the fuck creolitic means???

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No mate, I was keeping quiet about that because I have no idea. I think (and this is just a guess on my behalf), that our intrepid heroine is referring to some obscure French linguistic cult which define themselves by culture, race and history. But it is a very obscure reference and I have never heard the adjective form used. Can someone enlighten me further? I am about to go and bother my Linguistic colleagues down the hall.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by goo_stewart

French linguistic cult which define themselves by culture, race and history.

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Doesn't every "Nation" in the world do that already more or less?

^ I looked it up yesterday.
The OED did n't have anything close to it.
But Websters had 'creolyte'. It refers to the creole language. ie,,He has a creolite accent.

Creole, creolite, creolitic. But from what I can tell it's some kind of made-up flip word.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by goo_stewart

that our intrepid heroine is referring to some obscure French linguistic cult

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....close enuff

Quote:

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Originally Posted by goo_stewart

I was keeping quiet about that because I have no idea.

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Same here. It's a new word invented by our Pinoy heroine. Maybe she'll enlighten us illiterate creolites (shut up spell checker!) one day.

can one of you croeolitic white boys give me a 3 letter word for 'Mac alternatives'? It's not PCs

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobJWhite

Possibly the best trolling I've ever seen. Really top notch.

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Indeed. Makes a change from the usual drivel. Change you can believe. :clap:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teachermark

Doesn't every "Nation" in the world do that already more or less?

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Sorry, yes, of course they do. I was being a bit vague. They define themselves as such to reject their country of birth in favour of their ethnicity - you could say it was a search for roots and historical ties. What this all has to do with whitey teachers in Thailand, I have no idea. I just can't bridge the gap here as I know as much as a Nana whore about the subject. Just a guess on my behalf as I really have no idea what this nutter is banging on about.

...creolitic is the language of creolites, a group of forest-bound Filipinos (and Filipinas) known for their disinterest in speaking English properly...deeply religious in nature, the creolites have recorded the sacred music of their church: The Missa Criola (Creole Mess)...

Google: Créolité - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Créolité can perhaps best be described in contrast with the movement that preceded it, la négritude, a literary movement spearheaded by Aimé Césaire, Léopold Sédar Senghor and Léon Damas in the 1930s. The Négritude writers sought to define themselves in terms of their cultural, racial, and historical ties to the African continent as a rejection of French colonial political hegemony and of French cultural, intellectual, racial, and moral domination. Césaire and his contemporaries considered the shared black heritage of members of the African diaspora as a source of power and self-worth for those oppressed by physical and psychological violence of the colonial project.

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Originally Posted by fred flintstone

creolyte

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Well....I'm off...next Tuesday...heading to the Congo...in search of the Creolytes....rumoured to be a tribe made up of only women....FRT, Chassis....join me if you like......got me socks, shoes, shorts....empty cigar cases..... fisherman's friend (the citrus green ones).....

P.S....If you are handsome enough....you may come with us.....post your picture.....and I and Ajarn Philippine will let you know if you qualify....Thank you for your time..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by William money

I and Ajarn Philippine

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For Gods sake ... edit that before she sees it! :grin:

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Originally Posted by Teachermark

For Gods sake ... edit that before she sees it!

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No.....:wink:

creolite- a variety of jasper.

Creolite: Creolite mineral information and data.

Could it be a brand name of something? Haemorroid cream? Bathroom tile grouting?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teachermark

Could it be a brand name of something? Haemorroid cream? Bathroom tile grouting?

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creole languages are hybrid/hodgepodge languages. most people think of N'Awlins, but the lovechild of English and French is just one example....

and "creolite's" what happens when you kluge 'creole' into a bastardized adjective... and it's a floor wax, and a dessert topping...

---Update---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teachermark

Pinoy

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Pinay's the feminine form isn't it? i wouldn't know, being a creolite native (or was that a feldspar native) and all.









i have truly loved this thread. please don't let it end.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zeusbheld

Pinay's the feminine form isn't it? i wouldn't know

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:snaff:

All I know is that it refers to Filipinos abroad or Flips in general.

EDIT: After Googling ... Yes. But it's only used sometimes. "Pinoy" must be unisexual (as well as male)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wiki

Pinoy is an informal demonym referring to the Filipino people in the Philippines and overseas Filipinos around the world.^[1][2] Filipinos usually refer to themselves as Pinoy or sometimes the feminine Pinay.^[1]

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teachermark

Filipinos usually refer to themselves as Pinoy or sometimes the feminine Pinay

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...especially the fruitier ones...

sometimes flippo or flippa can be used.

What do they call flip flops in the Philippines?

^creolitic sandals or maybe pinoy(pinay) flops.
i don't really know to tell you true

sandals.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Classic-Chassis

sandals.

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I prefer flip-flops...Sandals have straps.

^and socks...(well, for the older discerning British gentleman they do)

Now i thought it was only the older seppos that wore socks with sandals.

Brett: Look, I'm sorry, I-I didn't get your name. I got yours, uh, Vincent, right? But-But I-I never got your...
Jules: My name is Pitt, and your ass ain't talking your way outta this shit.
Brett: No, no, no. I just want you to know how – I just want you to know how sorry we are that-that things got so flip-flopped up with us and-and Mr. Wallace. I-I-It...we-we got into this thing with the best intentions. Really. I never...
Jules: Oh, I'm sorry. Did I break your concentration? I didn't mean to do that. Please, continue. You were sayin' something about "best intentions"? What's the matter? Oh, y-you were finished? Oh, well, allow me to retort. What does Marsellus Wallace look like?
Brett: Flip?
Jules: Flip country are you from?
Brett: Flop?
Jules: "Flop" ain't no country I ever heard of. They speak English in Flip-Flop?
Brett: Flip?
Jules: English, motherfucker! Do you speak it?
Brett: Yes.
Jules: Then you know what I'm saying.
Brett: Yes.
Jules: Describe what Marsellus Wallace looks like.
Brett: Flop?
Jules: Say "Flip-Flop" again. Say "Flip-Flop" again. I dare you. I double-dare you, motherfucker. Say "Flip-Flop" one more goddamn time.
Brett: He-he's black.
Jules: Go on.
Brett: He's bald.
Jules: Does he look like a bitch?
Brett: Fip-Flop?
Jules: DOES...HE...LOOK...LIKE...A BITCH?!
Brett: No!
Jules: Then why'd you try to flip-flop him like a bitch, Brett?
Brett: I didn't.
Jules: Yes, you did. Yes, you did, Brett. You tried to flip-flop him. And Marsellus Wallace don't like to be flip-flopped by anybody except Mrs. Wallace. You read the Bible, Brett?
Brett: Yes.
Jules: Well, there's this passage I've got memorized, sorta fits the occasion. Ezekiel 25:17? "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord... ...when I lay my flip-flops upon thee."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zeusbheld

i have truly loved this thread. please don't let it end.

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Best thread since Sharky or Starky or whatever that Muscleman on Facebook was called, and both within a week of each other. We have been spoiled.


Money, be sure to get some pics of Ajarn Philippine for us...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fleabag

Money, be sure to get some pics of Ajarn Philippine for us...

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It'll only be a disappointment when it's a fifteen year old fat boy in his bedroom, eating cheetos and scratching himself.

That aint scratching.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobJWhite

It'll only be a disappointment when it's a fifteen year old fat boy in his bedroom, eating cheetos and scratching himself.

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15 would be understandable. no doubt the culprit is very much older than that.

Nah the real disappointment would be to see she is indeed a female of 26 but lacking the adjective hook.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mucker1234

That aint scratching.

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It fucking better be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fleabag

Nah the real disappointment would be to see she is indeed a female of 26 but lacking the adjective hook.

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I'd say that that's positively likely.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teachermark

Filipinos usually refer to themselves as Pinoy or sometimes the feminine Pinay

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...didn't we have a poster at one time (Sodum?) who referred to a female's privates as pinaynay?...he seemed to know an awful lot about the Philippines, as I recall...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobJWhite

It'll only be a disappointment when it's a fifteen year old fat boy in his bedroom, eating cheetos and scratching himself.

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Say it aint so....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&amp;v=MT0-OL_71yU

We have our winner.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fleabag

Best thread since Sharky or Starky or whatever that Muscleman on Facebook was called

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same night as

"don't post about Saigon or VN or something bad will happen. Winky, Blinky and Noddy know who you are."

"yes, yes they do. i am working for them again."

this truly is the golden age of internet forum. ten years from now people will look back and think, "like wow. they totally lifted Chips Ahoy Cookies no ten of todays trolls (or world of war craft fat guys) can lift."

she's probably an actual Pinay otherwise i doubt it would have been so easy to get under her skin. real trolls don't say "i hate you."

^true dat, she did seem a little wound up by it all. A little thin skinned. The hallmark of a good troll is tenacity, only time will tell...

Hi 'ya ... It's been quite a while since I became free--not to avoid the creolitic natives here. How are you, guys, doin'?

^Great. How about you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by goo_stewart

^true dat, she did seem a little wound up by it all. A little thin skinned. The hallmark of a good troll is tenacity, only time will tell...

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---Update---

Tenacity should never be construed far away from ... continuity. So, I am back!!!

---Update---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by theSmiler

^Great. How about you?

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Cooler than cool ... Thanks! I miss the guy from here whom I "greatly" met once ... at a cafe ... and more. I'm sorry to spill the beans, but I won't give a hint on your name ... as I committed. Hmmm!

BTW, the site is terribly slow!!! What happened here? A forum for ads already? Pathetic!

Where are you from in the Philippenes?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teachermark

What do they call flip flops in the Philippines?

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tsinelas

Tagalog, plural. The pronunciation is close to "chiNELas".

RPCV Philippines 1987-1989
Good people, good days! Mabuhay po kayo!